Outsiders Perspective after viewing the Cats game live

TA87

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Thread starter #1
Firstly, I was really impressed with your sides ability to bounce back after a bright start by Geelong. Dustin is a athletic beast who turns so sharply and his low centre of gravity makes him nigh impossible to tackle.

Nick Vlaustin will be a player for years to come.

As a whole the midfield didn't function and I'm sure you're all aware or this, but there is also room for improvement.

At the end of the day, guys like Deledio who seem to lose pact once they are sat on need to help out once they get a shadow, basically he's got to go and create a path for his skipper.

Take his man with him and belt the suitcase out of Cotchins tag when ever the opportunity presents, this goes for the whole team, Sean Grigg needs to start using his body as a blocking mechanism too.

Addressing the fade out in the second half, I thought it was inevitable, not just because of the injuries but also because the manner has been instructed to play. The gameplan it too lateral, too reliant upon creating an overlap player which requires constant sprinting. Ring work and it tires your side out, the options dry up later the game goes and the build up of lactic affects the skills.

You end up with situations where Martin gets caught holding the ball because he has been instructed to avoid kicking to a contest.

Turn your attention to Geelong, they're happy to back their skills, trust their ability to win contests and rarely venture outside the central corridor. Ask yourself who runs more, a team working strictly through the middle or the team working wide trying to find space?

Geelong can play at a high pace for longer because they don't run anywhere near as far during a game.

Add to this the team discipline when they make their entries into the 50 and more times than not they'll score more than the other team.

Coming back to this, Jake King has a lot of positives, however as a coach myself, watching him lead into and bring his man with him into Jacks and Tyrones space had me tearing my hair out.

Just some thoughts.
 

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TJTIGER

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#4
Thanks guys, I'm sure I'm not across the entire gameplan and have missed points along the way but this is just what I observed and I think most of it can be addressed.

Cheers.



Some very good points TA87, clearly your a person who reflects on his footy. Cheers :thumbsu:
 

Mr Magic

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#8
Yeah, I was just counting the goals we gave away from free kicks and turnovers defensively:eek:

Should have been a lot closer and my Essendon supporter father agreed.

Nice post OP:thumbsu:
 

Pounce

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#10
Interesting to hear a neutral person's thoughts on the game. I was at the game as well and missed some of those things. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us!
 

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#11
TA87,
I don't know if all those observations are true, but they are certainly plausible and well considered.
Plenty of food for thought and worthy of further consideration.
 

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theflea

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#12
Firstly, I was really impressed with your sides ability to bounce back after a bright start by Geelong. Dustin is a athletic beast who turns so sharply and his low centre of gravity makes him nigh impossible to tackle.

Nick Vlaustin will be a player for years to come.

As a whole the midfield didn't function and I'm sure you're all aware or this, but there is also room for improvement.

At the end of the day, guys like Deledio who seem to lose pact once they are sat on need to help out once they get a shadow, basically he's got to go and create a path for his skipper.

Take his man with him and belt the suitcase out of Cotchins tag when ever the opportunity presents, this goes for the whole team, Sean Grigg needs to start using his body as a blocking mechanism too.

Addressing the fade out in the second half, I thought it was inevitable, not just because of the injuries but also because the manner has been instructed to play. The gameplan it too lateral, too reliant upon creating an overlap player which requires constant sprinting. Ring work and it tires your side out, the options dry up later the game goes and the build up of lactic affects the skills.

You end up with situations where Martin gets caught holding the ball because he has been instructed to avoid kicking to a contest.

Turn your attention to Geelong, they're happy to back their skills, trust their ability to win contests and rarely venture outside the central corridor. Ask yourself who runs more, a team working strictly through the middle or the team working wide trying to find space?

Geelong can play at a high pace for longer because they don't run anywhere near as far during a game.

Add to this the team discipline when they make their entries into the 50 and more times than not they'll score more than the other team.

Coming back to this, Jake King has a lot of positives, however as a coach myself, watching him lead into and bring his man with him into Jacks and Tyrones space had me tearing my hair out.

Just some thoughts.
I have said for a while i believe we need to adjust our game plan of frantic running all the time instead of running in waves to help out which gives a rest to players who complete a wave. It also seems to open us up to turnovers and players out of position. Its not a huge change but just a more balanced approach to 1on1 and zoning play.
 

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#15
I have said for a while i believe we need to adjust our game plan of frantic running all the time instead of running in waves to help out which gives a rest to players who complete a wave. It also seems to open us up to turnovers and players out of position. Its not a huge change but just a more balanced approach to 1on1 and zoning play.
We're just way too frantic in general and have we ever really played 1 on 1 under Hardwick? I think we tried it in the NAB Cup game v the Bummers but that's about the only time I've really seen us do it, at least that I can remember.
 

theflea

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#16
We're just way too frantic in general and have we ever really played 1 on 1 under Hardwick? I think we tried it in the NAB Cup game v the Bummers but that's about the only time I've really seen us do it, at least that I can remember.
I think we reverted to man on man in dimmas' first year when it was apparent the players wern't up to any zoning. I'm all for some zoning, fwd running etc but i just think we do all the time which makes you tired late in quarters and opens us up to goals the other way as were too stuffed to get back. I just want a better balance of the 2.
 

carn tigez

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#17
100% correct with regards to the lateral movement, I was saying this in another thread we just go way too hard in the first half and then come the 2nd half we're too rooted to create options and more importantly, too rooted to run back defensively.
 

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#19
Interesting post OP and well said.
I agree with Lids, while tagged he should be doing something else teamworthy rather than just accept a poor game. We did this last week vs Freo and it worked well.

As for the overlapping game plan running ourselves ragged, I dont really agree. I think our problems are many, firstly we have poor skills/decision making and turnovers are still killing us, secondly our defensive running isnt matching our turnovers(not sure it could), thirdly our contested ball is way down on last season, and lastly our backline give away alot of free kicks and are caught out of position alot.(mostly the smalls)

I dont think these problems are caused by fatigue but rather the problems compounding eachother.
We need a few of our better mids back in the side(Foley/Tuck/Conca) and some injured(whilst still playing) ones fixed, and once this happens we wont turn it over so much, will win more contested ball and therefore wont need the constant defensive running causing the fatigue.
 

Dr Tigris

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#21
Good post TA87. I half agree on the game plan. But I actually think the overlapping style will work very well - if a few things are executed well. (see below for a rationale/excuse on fitness)

- Consistent running from behind to support the ball holder. I think this is more a discipline thing than fitness. Good positioning leads to less running overall and faster ball movement. But it requires players to run to the right spot all the time. By that I mean, when we don't have the ball some players need to be in position and thinking about how to be the overlap when/if we get the ball. When we get it the players need to run in a wave - which require blocking to free guys up etc. If you don't play with that discipline the running waves will not be consistent and so free flowing play will not occur. Sometimes we go into our shells and the game plan just falls apart. Metal issue more that fitness I think

- Good positioning up the field, to give someone to kick to. Similar story as above. Which means discipline, blocking and hard running to create holes, with the get out of a tall forward to boot it to. Same issue, sometimes the players forward are quite static - poor discipline.

- Good ball skills under pressure as the style require precision. We fail in this for periods far too often. That we do it regularly means it isn't the players skills or the coaching. It's a maturity/mindset issue.

- Our style also means that there is automatically numbers behind the ball, so unless the turnover is clean and the opposition can move the ball freely quickly, we have guys in a defensive opposition. This is a discipline thing, plus not f*%&ing up the ball movement when we have it. I reckon often our style means that when we are off our guys are too focused on our game and not enough on the oppositions. Unless we are on there is an underlying assumption that we are contesting and controlling the ball that means we can be open if the opposition has the ball under control. I don't see our ability to stop run ons as being very good at all. I think we just have a style that relies on our competing for the ball, and not losing too badly. This is a coaching thing - having a plan to stop other teams run ons. Don't see much evidence in the RFC on this.

That's my spiel.
But much of the plan relies on guys being AFL fit and strong. Having a lot of young guys means we do have some players in key roles that just need another year or two (or 3). I expect to see improvement overall over time. However, having said that. We need a major improvement in skills under pressure and playing the game plan 100% all the time. Right now we let it drop and get caught out by the good teams. That could be either a matter of development or it could a deep issue that is very hard to solve.
 

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#22
Thanks for sharing your observations TA87 - always interesting to hear what other fans see/think of us (without our yellow and black tinted glasses causing any bias).

Mods, might be an idea worth considering making a stickied thread for opposition fans to post their thoughts and comments on how they see us, our performances, weaknesses, strengths, direction etc. Obviously would need to be watched closely in case some trolls take advantage of it but I for one always enjoy hearing feedback and thoughts from outsiders regarding our team as they often bring fresh perspectives and ideas. (9 times out of 10 they are better than the media 'experts' too lol).
 

theflea

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#23
Good post TA87. I half agree on the game plan. But I actually think the overlapping style will work very well - if a few things are executed well. (see below for a rationale/excuse on fitness)

- Consistent running from behind to support the ball holder. I think this is more a discipline thing than fitness. Good positioning leads to less running overall and faster ball movement. But it requires players to run to the right spot all the time. By that I mean, when we don't have the ball some players need to be in position and thinking about how to be the overlap when/if we get the ball. When we get it the players need to run in a wave - which require blocking to free guys up etc. If you don't play with that discipline the running waves will not be consistent and so free flowing play will not occur. Sometimes we go into our shells and the game plan just falls apart. Metal issue more that fitness I think

- Good positioning up the field, to give someone to kick to. Similar story as above. Which means discipline, blocking and hard running to create holes, with the get out of a tall forward to boot it to. Same issue, sometimes the players forward are quite static - poor discipline.

- Good ball skills under pressure as the style require precision. We fail in this for periods far too often. That we do it regularly means it isn't the players skills or the coaching. It's a maturity/mindset issue.

- Our style also means that there is automatically numbers behind the ball, so unless the turnover is clean and the opposition can move the ball freely quickly, we have guys in a defensive opposition. This is a discipline thing, plus not f*%&ing up the ball movement when we have it. I reckon often our style means that when we are off our guys are too focused on our game and not enough on the oppositions. Unless we are on there is an underlying assumption that we are contesting and controlling the ball that means we can be open if the opposition has the ball under control. I don't see our ability to stop run ons as being very good at all. I think we just have a style that relies on our competing for the ball, and not losing too badly. This is a coaching thing - having a plan to stop other teams run ons. Don't see much evidence in the RFC on this.

That's my spiel.
But much of the plan relies on guys being AFL fit and strong. Having a lot of young guys means we do have some players in key roles that just need another year or two (or 3). I expect to see improvement overall over time. However, having said that. We need a major improvement in skills under pressure and playing the game plan 100% all the time. Right now we let it drop and get caught out by the good teams. That could be either a matter of development or it could a deep issue that is very hard to solve.
I agree we have to be smarter in the way we spread and then man up at the same time so if we do turn it over we have coverage. Maybe be more 1 on 1 in the back 6 then have a bigger spread from there going fwd.
 
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