Own it! Who said English would never be a ruck!!!

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CDBulldog

Team Captain
Mar 31, 2019
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I’ve been very bullish on English for many years. I could probably find 3-4 posts in the past 2-3 years where I’ve said English will be the best/most valuable player in the comp. I still hold that. English in 3 years will be a colossus, beating up on young inexperienced ruck men and being too mobile for old ones. Many supporters doubted him despite knowing talls take time. Own it!
 

DognBones

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Sep 3, 2007
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I’ve been very bullish on English for many years. I could probably find 3-4 posts in the past 2-3 years where I’ve said English will be the best/most valuable player in the comp. I still hold that. English in 3 years will be a colossus, beating up on young inexperienced ruck men and being too mobile for old ones. Many supporters doubted him despite knowing talls take time. Own it!
You've certainly been a strong advocate for English and you could very well have the last laugh over the majority of posters on this forum. Hardly any of us can claim that we haven't made negative comments about English over the past few years and certainly there are a number among us who've doubted whether he would ever make it.
You may even prove correct that he will become "the best/most valuable player in the comp" which would put him ahead of the Bontempellis, Cripps, Gawns and Petraccas of the AFL world.
I see you've also stated in previous posts that English and Sweet will form a dominant ruck partnership in the comp within a few years. If both of these players are still with us and dominating rival ruckmen in the future, we will certainly laud you as a true Nostradamus.
 

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Freezin

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Nov 28, 2007
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Wouldn't surprise if the WCE fans next year applaud and revere your Nostradamus optimism of English.....can see WCE going big time for the fella.....
 

Wetdog

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English has been one of the (few) improvers from last season. It’s great to see.

If you asked me at the start of the season who I would have hoped to see improvement from, I would have said English and Gardner.

It’s funny you know, if you told me that English would improve dramatically in the ruck role and Gardner would take some positive steps in the right direction, I would have said that we will certainly be premiership contenders.

However, we look a way off contending at this stage. But still plenty of water to go under the bridge. Kicking straight helps.
 

_Mike_

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Aug 10, 2009
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He has been good around the ground where we need a mobile tall but still gets beaten at the stoppages. I still don’t see it yet, that being a dominant stoppage ruck.
 

ScragCity

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 7, 2015
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Oliver Gigacz

Would you be able to shed some light on whether English has improved his actual ruck work this year? My suspicion is that it has improved slightly. But he'll never be a dominant hitout ruck and I don't think he will ever average a positive hitout differential. What I'm looking for is something like whether he is conceding hitouts to advantage less frequently that he did previously. Also, to my eye, he seems to be more involved in the post-hitout stoppage work this year. Is there a stat for that?

He's so dominant around the ground that if he can come close to breaking even in ruck contests then he will be comfortably the most influential ruck in the game, if his current form persists.
 

Al dente

Team Captain
Sep 11, 2019
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I’ve been very bullish on English for many years. I could probably find 3-4 posts in the past 2-3 years where I’ve said English will be the best/most valuable player in the comp. I still hold that. English in 3 years will be a colossus, beating up on young inexperienced ruck men and being too mobile for old ones. Many supporters doubted him despite knowing talls take time. Own it!
ive been his biggest critic, and he's started the year well.

But his problem has been his bad quarters/ halves/ games have been non-competitive and cost us games. its his ruck work mainly. when will the next one be?

His second quarter against Carlton cost us the game (does a 20 poss game balance out 20 minutes where he let Carlton waltz away from stoppages?), and he cost us top 4 late in the year last year, and he still loses tapouts even to junior ruckman. He failed to really bully 2 juniors against Sydney and Norf. He gets plenty of his own but good ruckman monster their opponent and take away their influence as well. The stats of opposition ruckman have been good all year against him.

So...it is far too early to call, i will re-evaluate at season's end.
 

Mahama

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Dec 28, 2003
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ive been his biggest critic, and he's started the year well.

But his problem has been his bad quarters/ halves/ games have been non-competitive and cost us games. its his ruck work mainly. when will the next one be?

His second quarter against Carlton cost us the game (does a 20 poss game balance out 20 minutes where he let Carlton waltz away from stoppages?), and he cost us top 4 late in the year last year, and he still loses tapouts even to junior ruckman. He failed to really bully 2 juniors against Sydney and Norf. He gets plenty of his own but good ruckman monster their opponent and take away their influence as well. The stats of opposition ruckman have been good all year against him.

So...it is far too early to call, i will re-evaluate at season's end.
Agree that his competitiveness in the ruck still needs improving, and was something that cost us last season - but it absolutely hasn't lost us any games this season.

Of Carlton's 7 goals in that second quarter, only 2 came from clearances. One was a boundary throw in where English was out-bodied, but the other was a centre clearance that actually started with a hitout to advantage from English before Treloar fumbled and Carlton got the ball back. The rest of the goals came from a mix of turnovers and horrible aerial defence.

What's most important for him this year, in my mind, is that he doesn't let the opposition ruckman dominate to the extent that they can waltz out of the middle and get a series of deep, effective clearances. A quick glance at the hitouts to advantage stats of the number one ruckmen we've played so far suggests he's doing a good job of that.

Of the 138 hitouts those ruckmen won against us, 44 have been to advantage, or 31.9%. That's roughly average, which I'm calling a win for a below average ruckman like English. Adding to that, he's first among ruckmen in clearances and second for pressure acts, both of which will obviously contribute to nullifying opposition scores from clearances.

If he can keep doing that while also being literally the top ruckman in the league for disposals, disposal efficiency, marks, intercepts, etc. then I'd say he's absolutely made it as a ruckman already - just a bit more Luke Darcy than Scott Wynd perhaps!
 

Libba39

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The two games we've won English rucked against an inexperienced plodder in Xerri and then against Hickey for less than a half.

He's good around the ground but I haven't seen anything to say we won't get dominated in the ruck every time we play Melbourne.
 

doggiesin08

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Sep 17, 2007
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The two games we've won English rucked against an inexperienced plodder in Xerri and then against Hickey for less than a half.

He's good around the ground but I haven't seen anything to say we won't get dominated in the ruck every time we play Melbourne.
What about Round 1 when he didn’t get dominated against Melbourne?
 

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Oliver Gigacz

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Oliver Gigacz

Would you be able to shed some light on whether English has improved his actual ruck work this year? My suspicion is that it has improved slightly. But he'll never be a dominant hitout ruck and I don't think he will ever average a positive hitout differential. What I'm looking for is something like whether he is conceding hitouts to advantage less frequently that he did previously. Also, to my eye, he seems to be more involved in the post-hitout stoppage work this year. Is there a stat for that?

He's so dominant around the ground that if he can come close to breaking even in ruck contests then he will be comfortably the most influential ruck in the game, if his current form persists.

Here are English's averages across key areas...

Ruck Overview
English - Ruck Contest.png


Centre Bounce Overview
English - Centre Bounce.png


Score Overview
English - Score Overview.png


 

ScragCity

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 7, 2015
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Agree that his competitiveness in the ruck still needs improving, and was something that cost us last season - but it absolutely hasn't lost us any games this season.

Of Carlton's 7 goals in that second quarter, only 2 came from clearances. One was a boundary throw in where English was out-bodied, but the other was a centre clearance that actually started with a hitout to advantage from English before Treloar fumbled and Carlton got the ball back. The rest of the goals came from a mix of turnovers and horrible aerial defence.

What's most important for him this year, in my mind, is that he doesn't let the opposition ruckman dominate to the extent that they can waltz out of the middle and get a series of deep, effective clearances. A quick glance at the hitouts to advantage stats of the number one ruckmen we've played so far suggests he's doing a good job of that.

Of the 138 hitouts those ruckmen won against us, 44 have been to advantage, or 31.9%. That's roughly average, which I'm calling a win for a below average ruckman like English. Adding to that, he's first among ruckmen in clearances and second for pressure acts, both of which will obviously contribute to nullifying opposition scores from clearances.

If he can keep doing that while also being literally the top ruckman in the league for disposals, disposal efficiency, marks, intercepts, etc. then I'd say he's absolutely made it as a ruckman already - just a bit more Luke Darcy than Scott Wynd perhaps!

Excellent analysis. I don't recognise you as a poster but your recent contributions have been first rate.
 

The Slitherin' Snake

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Apr 8, 2005
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Yep i'll put my hand up. I reckon i've been his biggest critic for the last couple of years (along with criticising the tactic of playing him one out in the ruck).
I just didnt think he'd ever get his competitiveness up to a level where he wasnt a liability in the actual ruck contest.

However this year, he's got the competitiveness up and has taken his around the ground work to another level. I've loved seeing him take a mark and immediately play on, not even checking who might be on his tail. He's backing his pace and skills which is amazing to see. It must be demoralising to the opposition ruck, to be out marked, have Timmy play on, take a bounce, dispose of it to our advantage and then continue moving forward to be a dangerous option.
 

Flags_In_The_Bag

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Aug 17, 2014
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Not a fan of overseas teams.....
You've certainly been a strong advocate for English and you could very well have the last laugh over the majority of posters on this forum. Hardly any of us can claim that we haven't made negative comments about English over the past few years and certainly there are a number among us who've doubted whether he would ever make it.
You may even prove correct that he will become "the best/most valuable player in the comp" which would put him ahead of the Bontempellis, Cripps, Gawns and Petraccas of the AFL world.
I see you've also stated in previous posts that English and Sweet will form a dominant ruck partnership in the comp within a few years. If both of these players are still with us and dominating rival ruckmen in the future, we will certainly laud you as a true Nostradamus.
I've been 50/50 on him always, never have said a negative post about any of our players so I know I haven't about him. Always was positive about Gardner too
 

stefoid

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Mar 8, 2002
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has he become a ruckman? Still loses the Hitouts, especially loses hitouts to advantage. But he’s awesome around the ground.

Thats was always going to be the deal, but at least this year he is initiating contact at every opportunity, so at least he doesnt look like a complete bunny at the stoppages
 

Mofra

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I still think he could be the best (or, just behind Jackson) as the best forward/ruck hybrid in the game.
I'm pleasantly surprised at his improvement this year as a first ruck. I do thing CBAs are going to be an issue each year it becomes less-so.
 

missfinland

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Aug 13, 2007
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Wouldn't surprise if the WCE fans next year applaud and revere your Nostradamus optimism of English.....can see WCE going big time for the fella.....
Believe they already are and the seed was planted 2years ago. Will be interesting watching how it plays out.

Dogs have done the hard yards with him so hoping he stays and repays the faith shown.
 

Kennel Master

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I think the biggest improvement in English's ruck work is he has not been so easy to push out of the way.
Previous years Gawn or Grundy would shove him sideways, grab the ball and kick the goal.

His strength in the contest is much better, and even if he doesn't get the tap, he is contesting.

His around the ground play has been great. Also showing greater strength.

He was always going to improve with age, and there is more improvement in him.

Let's get him signed on a multi year contract extension soon.

KM
 

Optimistic Dog

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Oct 11, 2014
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Still do think he is a not good tap ruckman but is becoming very good around the ground which never ahs been questioned but he probably exceeding expectations in this areas. The better he gets the better trade we get for him I think the go home factor and the offer he gets from WCE will see him go. Hopefully we get a top 3 pick and early second rounder for him.
 

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