Toast Ox

[syl]

whinge whinge whinge

Plenty of teams have been in similar positions to ours. You will see a lot more severe bottoming out in the future with the 18 teams in the league and the way the game is played now.

You just need to compare GWS/GCS to Fremantle/Port during their formative years.

 

[Tulip]

head in the sand

None of them have seen losing by 10 goals as an accomplishment.

 

[syl]

I know it's not 2010 anymore, so a *facepalm* probably won't be effective here - but he has continued to offer the club his support. He says he will do anything, yet McLardy and Neeld are hanging up on him.

In my opinion, syl, with people like you so determined to keep Neeld and co. in their jobs: WE WILL ALL BE EX-MELBOURNE.

He came in once and spoke to McLardy. Other than that he came in and spoke to the players about gambling (paid appearance). That's it.

If he wants to do something, run a ticket for this year's AGM and take a role on the board.

 

[catman 71]

If the Ox isn't Melbourne, than neither am I. He, like me, believes that our coaching staff and board are running this club into the ground and need to be gotten rid of.

I would think that Ox would be more supportive of a club that stuck by him through his three knee reconstructions.

 

[syl]

None of them have seen losing by 10 goals as an accomplishment.

Watch Bluey's press conferences from last year, watch Sheeds' ones - you're talking out of your arse.

Go have a look at Clarkson's first few years. Have a real good look at the games.

 

[Tulip]

Watch Bluey's press conferences from last year, watch Sheeds' ones - you're talking out of your arse.

Go have a look at Clarkson's first few years. Have a real good look at the games.

Gold Coast and GWS in their first two years don't count.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tg-hawthorn-hawks?year=2004

They lost most of their games here by 30~ points. Only 6 games over 10 goals.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tg-hawthorn-hawks?year=2005

Here there were only two!

You know how many we've lost by over 60 points?

7 in 10 rounds.

 

[catman 71]

I know it's not 2010 anymore, so a *facepalm* probably won't be effective here - but he has continued to offer the club his support. He says he will do anything, yet McLardy and Neeld are hanging up on him.

In my opinion, syl, with people like you so determined to keep Neeld and co. in their jobs: WE WILL ALL BE EX-MELBOURNE.

Then why doesn't he oppose McLardy and run a ticket, and call for a spill of the board, and run a rival ticket.

If he thinks he can do better, Ox should put up or shut up. Or he could continue like most people do, as armchair experts.

If a lot of supporters truly think like him, he should test that, and put himself up as president. He will get the votes if everyone thinks like him, and then he can implement the change.

But it is far easier sitting behind a microphone and sound off than it is to coach or be president.

What is Ox afraid of?

 

[ramastar]

Plenty of teams have been in similar positions to ours. You will see a lot more severe bottoming out in the future with the 18 teams in the league and the way the game is played now.
You just need to compare GWS/GCS to Fremantle/Port during their formative years.

I reckon this is a problem with the 18 club format. The AFL talent pool is now spread far too thin. Think about how much better the standard of football would be overall, and how much tighter the competition would be from top to bottom if the good young kids from GWS/GC were spread out among the other teams in the league.

AFL isn’t soccer. It’s not a world game with an international pool of talent. It is finite and I think this expansion is really starting to hurt the competition. You are right, these sorts of bottoming outs are only the start.

 

[catman 71]

Gold Coast and GWS in their first two years don't count.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tg-hawthorn-hawks?year=2004

They lost most of their games here by 30~ points. Only 6 games over 10 goals.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tg-hawthorn-hawks?year=2005

Here there were only two!

You know how many we've lost by over 60 points?

7 in 10 rounds.

Brendan McCartney lost 11 in a row with the Bulldogs between Rounds 11-23 2012, and many of those losses were by 90 points or over, yet there is silence?

 

[syl]

Ugh. Arguing over this is pointless with you.

On topic: Ox is a dickwad for making comments like that in the media and not running a ticket.

 

[Viney]

I'll address the bottom part of your post, it's summed up quite well.

15+ goal losses are the kinds of numbers that Fitzroy of the 90's and Richmond of the 90's-2010 would laugh at. It's literally unacceptable, whenever it happens - yet people are happy to see it happen under the banner of progress.

Like one day players like Bail and Evans are going to run through their 50/100 game banner and start playing like A grade footballers.

You're all being hoodwinked. Shame on you, you fooled me once. Shame on me, you fooled me twice.

How ******* funny was Schwab on WW going through players games and talking about pumping matches into young players to improve.

"Bennell will improve when he hits 45 games, Morton will become a key player after 100" etc.

Neeld is scrapping to keep his job with the exact same line of reasoning.

He is poison, so is his assistant - they don't know what they are doing.

I'm not saying he can coach, I am saying I would like a corner to be turned and for Neeld to succeed

It's pretty funny though, all players you mentioned then....not one recruited by Neeld (although I must admit, I disagree on Evans - I think he'll be a good footballer)

What happens, in your opinion, if we get smashed by Collingwood, Neeld gets sacked, New coach hired during the bye, then we lose to St Kilda and the Bulldogs by large numbers? And then go on to lose the rest of the games for the year by 10 goals plus?

Sack another coach at seasons end?

Now of course you'll say, a care taker will come in (Viney / Craig) until seasons end and then we'll hire a coach in off season (causing another rushed half baked pre season).

But who will take the job? Who will want to coach Melbourne? A club who sack coaches every couple of years......

What if no good candidate surfaces?

Who do we get? Another rookie?

 

[Tulip]

Brendan McCartney lost 11 in a row with the Bulldogs between Rounds 11-23 2012, and many of those losses were by 90 points or over, yet there is silence?

Erm, the only 90+ blowout they had last year was in Round 10...away at the eventual Premiers.

 

[Tulip]

Ugh. Arguing over this is pointless with you.

On topic: Ox is a dickwad for making comments like that in the media and not running a ticket.

****ing ROFL.

Lose an argument, convincingly, and it's pointless.

It is what it is, syl. Stay the course mate.

 

[catman 71]

Erm, the only 90+ blowout they had last year was in Round 10...away at the eventual Premiers.

They also got belted by over 100 points to West Coast in Perth.

 

[Supermercado]

I respect his passion, and don't know what's going on behind the scenes but it's getting near the point where he'll have to do something instead of standing on the sidelines piffing hand grenades.

 

[syl]

******* ROFL.

Lose an argument, convincingly, and it's pointless.

It is what it is, syl. Stay the course mate.

I did not lose an argument. Neither of us is going to change our opinions. You have lost faith in the club and coach. I have not. It's that simple. A point of difference. Neither of us is right or wrong.

 

[Tulip]

Aside from the first and last sentences, which I disagree with. I think we'll leave it there.

 

[Dory_77]

Brendan McCartney lost 11 in a row with the Bulldogs between Rounds 11-23 2012, and many of those losses were by 90 points or over, yet there is silence?

I think the biggest issue Neeld has is the inconsistency in his message to supporters. When he came in it was about being the hardest team to play against. After the first loss to Brisbane last year he seemed furious; said he'd swing the axe and that wasn't how we were supposed to play at all.
Now his tune has changed to rebuilding a rebuild and trying to get games into kids and develop the list. These sort of sentiments weren't coming through much when he first took over. He played things up last year, and now has come crashing back to earth so has changed his tune dramatically. I'm not saying he should be sacked for this (the abysmal results he's achieved might be reason though) but I think this is one of the big reasons that supporters have turned against Neeld. When he started he was selling the future as being positive; we'd be a tough, genuinely competitive team and Mitch Clark seemed to be the missing piece to our side (indeed many commentators/observers/fans thought we were a KPF away from challenging for finals/moving up the ladder). Now he's trying to sell another rebuild, that could take 5 years (starting from where and ending where, who knows) to arguably the most disheartened group of supporters in the league. It's not an easy task, but it may have been easier if he let supporters know about this a bit earlier in his tenure.
Re McCartney at the Dogs: he was honest about where the side were at, and how the future was going to pan out. Everyone knew the Dogs were heading down for a while after gunning for a flag and falling short. McCartney didn't try to suggest otherwise and seems to me to have been more open about how the team is travelling. With Neeld it's all a bit smoke and mirrors. We improved 15% in preseason, but this has been our worst season for many a year, and that's not an easy award to take out. We're training the house down and putting in elite standards but can't produce on game day? This sort of talk is what really pisses off the supporters, hence Neeld is hated by most.

 

[Dory_77]

WRT Ox's comments: I can see where he's coming from and I do think it represents the views of some supporters. However, I'd rather the team try winning and turning results around with what they have, rather than putting in a half-arsed effort, having Neeld sacked/caretaker put in place and hoping that any changes can turn things around. I think Neeld will probably go at seasons end anyway, or at least be operating in a significantly restructured FD. I don't really see the point in deliberately getting him sacked now. Another 186 isn't going to get supporters rushing back through the turnstiles is it?

 

[Topkent]

When I first heard it , I immediately though ... Ugh we don't need this from the of ... But I understand exactly where he is coming from ... He doesn't wanna see us pointlessly belted for a few more rounds ... If we wanna make a change we should get it done and not just float along for any longer

 

[jhong]

so he is saying ,lets have another 186 loss , so we can sack this coach ffs , barely months after we were done for T......g , i thought we were trying to get rid of that image,not go to the well of tanking again,even if its one game !.

 

[SabreOfParadise]

All he is saying is what pretty much most Demon fans are thinking if the crowd numbers are anything to go by. Its not helpful, but since he speaks a not particularly damning truth I can't see how it is really harmful either.

The supporters need an injection of hope and one way to do that is to fire the coach. That may not be in the best long term interests of the club, but it would certainly see a bounce at the gate and we'd see if the players will (or will not) get motivated for a caretaker coach.

 

[catman 71]

Who is to say that Neeld couldn't turn things around?

Everyone assumes that once a bad coach, always a bad coach. Maybe a restructure of the footballing department might be a good start. Also, maybe they need to get in someone else as a 2IC , rather than Neil Craig (who , for mine, is past it).

This meeting may have been the rocket Neeld needs. He may change up his gameplan, and adapt it more for what the team can play to.

If Neeld is the problem, then how come the team didn't make finals under Bailey either, and would consistently slide up and down the ladder with Daniher?

Unless the players decide to do what is required, Norm Smith himself couldn't turn this team around. The coach is given too much credit, and too much blame. Where is the players' responsibility?

Until players hate losing, and it burns in their gut to lose, then they will do nothing to turn things around. It isn't about them liking the coach (or Bailey would have been more successful), it is about the professionalism of the players. Players know that they will get a game each week, so just do the bare minimum. Only Nathan Jones and three or four others do anything towards giving their all on the field.

I think that, in one way, this might be karma. You wanted to lose against Richmond in 2009 (the tanking game), and this taught players that losing is okay, even acceptable. Worse, it taught that there is a reward for losing. Many supporters didn't mind losing when you could get Scully and Trengove, and some supporters were upset when you didn't get the Kreuzer pick the previous year. Tell me, were they worth it? Because it built a culture of mediocrity. Melbourne players have to be taught that only winning will do, and how to win. Maybe this is a case of "be careful what you ask for, because you may just get it". Now, Melbourne have got it.

 

[Yoda_]

How exactly is he going to lend assistance? He says he doesn't want to be part of the board but wants to gain an understanding of how the FD works?

If he is involved in the hiring of a new CEO it is pretty damn similar to Gary Lyons efforts a few years back...

Read the whole thread and this is the best comment.

If 'Ox' is going to become apart of the club and the decision making of the inner sanctum like Gary Lyon was then he needs to be in it for the long haul. Oversee the decisions made, ensure change is implemented and things will change.

 

[Dez!]

Shit comments from Schwarz, pull your head in dickhead.