Analysis Pace is Ace, the Need for Speed?

[Thegibbsgamble]

Cameron will find football completely different at the hapless bears. I hope the move wasn't about the money.

Second point. When Voss played football was a different game. It wasn't until the end of his career did Niel Craig reveloutnise the game. Comparing then to now to make your point shows a lack of knowledge or maturity

 

[Murray2503]

Defensive pressure speed is very important just as the run and carry speed of smith is critical to our gameplan. McGovern and smith are crucial and thus was one of the main reasons for our loss on gf day. Gov totally transforms our forward line with his defensive speed along with betts. Throw in cameron and we had the best forward defensive pressure in the league. Knight also can apply that pressure. I believe cc needs to be replaced with someone thst applies that defensive pressure and tackling ability. Gallucci springs to mind and may be the replacement.This is also a reason i believe forward lines are going smaller and i feel lynch, walker and jenkins cannot all play in the forward line together. For me jenkins and his lack of defensive presssure is of concern.

 

[ad victoriam]

Are some of us completely forgetting Pykes request for Fast players with endurance? He mentions it a few times yet most of the media have not picked up on it.
When the Coach wants fast players, it tends to show what direction he plans to go. But remember he will still pick the players on his list that he thinks will win a game.

Look at the last 2 drafts Draft, and again in a few weeks, (Crows will not Draft a slow runner this year).

 

[John Who]

Cameron will find football completely different at the hapless bears. I hope the move wasn't about the money.

Second point. When Voss played football was a different game. It wasn't until the end of his career did Niel Craig reveloutnise the game. Comparing then to now to make your point shows a lack of knowledge or maturity

The point regarding Voss/Black (both not renown for their speed) in the OP was a rhetorical question with the aim for open discussion. In a way, I was trying to make a point that speed is not the be all and end all. And even if the game has changed over the years, the skillsets of Voss/Black would still be invaluable any day of the week for any team!
Next time you make comment on lack of knowledge or maturity, make sure you use these words more wisely and appropriately.

 

[CrowBloke]

I thought this conclusion was unfair and excessive:

Comparing then to now to make your point shows a lack of knowledge or maturity

Ad hominem attacks about posters are not welcome.
Your target got it right:

Next time you make comment on lack of knowledge or maturity, make sure you use these words more wisely and appropriately.

.... or even better, not at all.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

I was trying to make a point that speed is not the be all and end all. And even if the game has changed over the years, the skillsets of Voss/Black would still be invaluable any day of the week for any team!

You were comparing apples with oranges.

I thought this conclusion was unfair and excessive:

Ad hominem attacks about posters are not welcome.
Your target got it right:

.... or even better, not at all.

The reality is sports science has taken off ever since Niel Craig took over from Gary ayres. The afl has gome to great lengths to regulate that.

Voss would of been suspended week in week out if he played today as result of the speed of the game being so fast the hip and shoulder has all but been banned.

He was comparing apples with oranges.

 

[BunjiMac]

If you've got the ball you don't need to be quick, if you don't, it helps very much.

That is absolutely the point I reckon.

Speed is immensely important in defensive transition and ultimately winning the ball back.

 

[marty36]

That is absolutely the point I reckon.

Speed is immensely important in defensive transition and ultimately winning the ball back.

What's more important disposal or speed


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[John Who]

I think we can summarize the previous comments, that speed can be about:
1. Leg speed (to run or to chase)
2. Hand speed (handballing)
3. Mind speed (reaction time, decision time)

Each of the above can be used as weapons both for attacking as well as defending.

 

[BunjiMac]

What's more important disposal or speed


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Both are important and it isn't a binary discussion where you can only have one or the other.

 

[marty36]

Both are important and it isn't a binary discussion where you can only have one or the other.

Totally agree

But one is more important than the other, remebering AFL footballers arent plodders they all have some speed just someone like CC is super quick where as say someone like Smith isnt super quick but can run at a reasonable pace . We are discussing the need for speed and smith isnt one you would put in the category of tearing it up but CC is. But smiths leg is elite and CC just burns it so often and when the turnover comes or the missed goal occurs handing over the ball to the opposition.

Personally Disposal outweighs Speed in my book in todays game style

 

[BunjiMac]

Totally agree

But one is more important than the other, remebering AFL footballers arent plodders they all have some speed just someone like CC is super quick where as say someone like Smith isnt super quick but can run at a reasonable pace . We are discussing the need for speed and smith isnt one you would put in the category of tearing it up but CC is. But smiths leg is elite and CC just burns it so often and when the turnover comes or the missed goal occurs handing over the ball to the opposition.

Personally Disposal outweighs Speed in my book in todays game style

I still think you need both.

Your example of Smith is using someone who you'd say is not slow and has speed. Maybe not at the elite level of speed, but you'd definitely class him as fast.

I therefore see Smith as someone who has both.

A person like Sam Mitchell on the otherhand, how would he go if he was starting his career now?

 

[marty36]

I still think you need both.

Your example of Smith is using someone who you'd say is not slow and has speed. Maybe not at the elite level of speed, but you'd definitely class him as fast.

I therefore see Smith as someone who has both.

A person like Sam Mitchell on the otherhand, how would he go if he was starting his career now?

He won Hawks B and F last year so you would think pretty good

 

[marty36]

I still think you need both.

Your example of Smith is using someone who you'd say is not slow and has speed. Maybe not at the elite level of speed, but you'd definitely class him as fast.

I therefore see Smith as someone who has both.

A person like Sam Mitchell on the otherhand, how would he go if he was starting his career now?

I did say all playesr can run, there arent any Andrew Jarmans running around anymore, very similar in all sports we dont see any Paul Nobes playing cricket anymore

Sports peopel these days have a certain level including Sam Mitchell

 

[Bring back Bas]

Raw speed is overrated.

Lightning quick players are often the worst in the team for disposal by foot as they just bang it on the boot with little thought or composure. See Petrenko, Impey, Hartung, Cameron, Colyer, Dangerfield and so on. They are also often reluctant to run both ways.

Acceleration and agility are more important. Robbie Gray is slow as treacle but has those lighting first few steps which allows him to break away. McLeod in his later years was much the same.

Having a player with genuine speed can be real weapon if used correctly even if they do have deficiencies in other parts of their game. As CrowBloke stated: "a team full of Usain Bolt's would not win a single game" this is because their weaknesses would be exposed - but having one in the side would be extremely dangerous as he would be able to be played in a way as to maximise the use his speed whilst minimising his many weaknesses.

Having a one-dimensional players in the team is fine, as long as there aren't too many of them with the same weaknesses otherwise those weaknesses can be exposed by the opposition. It is similar to how having a 210cm player in the ruck is a weapon even if he can't do much else. Or how having an elite ball user playing at half back is a weapon even if he can't defend. As an individual player we don't lose much by Cameron departing but as a team we do lose a dangerous weapon and a point of difference.

 

[Crowbots are dead]

Interesting to see coaches priorities in players.
Walsh - ball movement
Pyke - flexibility
Craig - a good effort from the playing group
Sando - contested ball
Clarko - skill by foot
Buckley - time in possession

Were these because of their beliefs of how to win ganes or finding a game plan to fit the playing list?

Personally I think you should build the most talented list then find a game plan to suit them, topping up with missing pieces from trades

That’s what pyke is doing imo

 

[John Who]

Having a player with genuine speed can be real weapon if used correctly even if they do have deficiencies in other parts of their game. As CrowBloke stated: "a team full of Usain Bolt's would not win a single game" this is because their weaknesses would be exposed - but having one in the side would be extremely dangerous as he would be able to be played in a way as to maximise the use his speed whilst minimising his many weaknesses.

Having a one-dimensional players in the team is fine, as long as there aren't too many of them with the same weaknesses otherwise those weaknesses can be exposed by the opposition. It is similar to how having a 210cm player in the ruck is a weapon even if he can't do much else. Or how having an elite ball user playing at half back is a weapon even if he can't defend. As an individual player we don't lose much by Cameron departing but as a team we do lose a dangerous weapon and a point of difference.

I really like how you describe the loss of Cameron very well in 1 plain paragraph. There is no doubt Cameron brings more to the table than just his speed in attack. It's the quick chase and tackle, and the inferred pressure on the opposition that makes the opposition more prone to make errors. He had the X factor which you can't just see on the stats sheet.
The aim now is to create a tweaked gamestyle or finding a replacement for Cameron. Knowing we will likely get less leg speed, but with a new point of difference.

 

[ThreeLeggedCrow]

I think Cameron will go alright .. the bounced ball should sit up at pace on the harder Gabba deck.

 

[Shaz2012]

Brisbane play Melbourne twice. If CC can help take 8 points off them then that will make the trade look even sweeter. Plus 4 points off Carlton.

 

[MRB37]

Raw speed is overrated.

Lightning quick players are often the worst in the team for disposal by foot as they just bang it on the boot with little thought or composure.

Exact reason Anthony Wilson didn't work out for us when we took him as a rookie, despite him consistently having plays where nobody on the ground can catch him.