Recommitted Paddy McCartin [out of contract 2020]

[adammania9]

Lol, we're currently ahead of all of them on the ladder and have probably over $2mil in salary cap space and two first rounders this year. Plus guys with the potential of Paddy, Goddard, Lonie, McKenzie, Battle, Long and so-on developing in the VFL.

Triple lol to the Carlton call though. They had something like 12 in their team yesterday who are 27yo or older to our 5 and were basically at full strength. Paddy would be first or 2nd picked in their forward line and he's not even able to squeeze into our 22. They're two years behind us in the rebuild and still have a hell of a lot of list culling to do!

Age doesn't matter, ability does and what Carlton and Essendon's youngsters have shown will have them be better sides in the future.

I'll give you McCartin, but Goddard is always injured, and Lonie, Battle, McKenzie etc. all have shown nothing in seniors and every single club in the competition could name players equal or greater than them. They're nothing to brag about.

 

[Roadto2018]

Age doesn't matter, ability does and what Carlton and Essendon's youngsters have shown will have them be better sides in the future.

I'll give you McCartin, but Goddard is always injured, and Lonie, Battle, McKenzie etc. all have shown nothing in seniors and every single club in the competition could name players equal or greater than them. They're nothing to brag about.

Well Goddard got injured once so 'always injured' is a very uneducated call, but does have potential which is what the point of the post actually was. Lack of knowledge further shown by grouping Lonie and Mckenzie with Battle, not for a second saying the first two are guns but have actually shown positive (and negative in the case of Lonie but nonetheless) signs at senior level in very limited opportunities in Mckenzie's case.

No doubt Carlton and Essendon's youngsters have shown some good signs, but to definitively say this WILL mean they're better is just an impossible call to make, unless all their young players are Bonts and Olivers which they most certainly aren't.

 

[00Stinger]

Lol, we're currently ahead of all of them on the ladder and have probably over $2mil in salary cap space and two first rounders this year. Plus guys with the potential of Paddy, Goddard, Lonie, McKenzie, Battle, Long and so-on developing in the VFL.

Triple lol to the Carlton call though. They had something like 12 in their team yesterday who are 27yo or older to our 5 and were basically at full strength. Paddy would be first or 2nd picked in their forward line and he's not even able to squeeze into our 22. They're two years behind us in the rebuild and still have a hell of a lot of list culling to do!

Lol i seem to remember seeing my team spank you guys a few weeks back

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[PaddysurDaddy]

the pig is leading the VFL goal kicking by four goals, at 21 years old, with blustery sandy as his home ground - not ideal conditions for a FF, ball swirling all over the place.

First the bill

next the pig

not long now

 

[captain cotch 9]

IMO he is an old school FF.
Of course he will dominate VFL.
AFL is 10 steps up.
Wont make it IMO

 

[SterlingArcher]

Lol, we're currently ahead of all of them on the ladder and have probably over $2mil in salary cap space and two first rounders this year. Plus guys with the potential of Paddy, Goddard, Lonie, McKenzie, Battle, Long and so-on developing in the VFL.

Triple lol to the Carlton call though. They had something like 12 in their team yesterday who are 27yo or older to our 5 and were basically at full strength. Paddy would be first or 2nd picked in their forward line and he's not even able to squeeze into our 22. They're two years behind us in the rebuild and still have a hell of a lot of list culling to do!

Such a stretch to have "Lonie, Battle, McKenzie, Long and so on" as an argument for young players. Every club in the league could list 4 bit part reserve players and then say "and so on".

I know this seems like I'm just annoyed at the Carlton part of your statement but rest assured I'm not. If this was a pissing contest I'd just list the dozen young blokes who haven't impacted AFL level yet and say "and so on" and make us look like GWS or the Dogs.

 

[SterlingArcher]

Well Goddard got injured once so 'always injured' is a very uneducated call, but does have potential which is what the point of the post actually was. Lack of knowledge further shown by grouping Lonie and Mckenzie with Battle, not for a second saying the first two are guns but have actually shown positive (and negative in the case of Lonie but nonetheless) signs at senior level in very limited opportunities in Mckenzie's case.

No doubt Carlton and Essendon's youngsters have shown some good signs, but to definitively say this WILL mean they're better is just an impossible call to make, unless all their young players are Bonts and Olivers which they most certainly aren't.

Lonie has shown a bit but is very limited. Could very easily fall by the wayside. You grouped them all initially anyway.

 

[Roadto2018]

Lonie has shown a bit but is very limited. Could very easily fall by the wayside. You grouped them all initially anyway.

Was not me.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Age doesn't matter, ability does and what Carlton and Essendon's youngsters have shown will have them be better sides in the future.

The problem is that Carlton do have some very high quality young talent, but not enough of it yet to take them anywhere for some time and because they have so many who are nearing or over 30yo, and also so many who need to be delisted, it's going to IMO take them a fair while to get anywhere near the real pointy end of the ladder.

Then there's the possibility that Gibbs will depart at the end of the year and they probably won't get as much for him as they would have last offseason. They could have had one year of development into a Powell-Pepper, or someone like that, and another handy young type on top of him, but now that's been pushed back a year, if Gibbs leaves this year instead.

I agree that Essendon have plenty of young talent, I've been saying that and defending their list for months, but I'm also extremely happy with ours and I'd say we have far far more cap space available to us, to go shopping, and an extra first rounder to either take to the draft, or use in a trade.

I'll give you McCartin, but Goddard is always injured, and Lonie, Battle, McKenzie etc. all have shown nothing in seniors and every single club in the competition could name players equal or greater than them. They're nothing to brag about.

As someone else said, Goddard is not "always injured" at all"! That shows just how ignorant about our list you are. In his first year he showed a heap at VFL level especially and then played the last 7 games at AFL level, holding down a key position, at 18yo. From memory he missed about one game for the year.

Then last year he looked like he had a case of "2nd year blues", initially (or may have bulked up too much too soon, he was reportedly up to 105kg, which seems excessive for someone 197cm and 19yo), but started to get himself back into form and then in his return game for the seniors he ruptured his achilles, which is an up to 12 month injury. He's just returned and has now played a couple of VFL games.

As for the rest I mentioned, I've been following St Kilda closely since 1990 and we currently have the best depth we've possibly ever had in that time, maybe even better than under grant Thomas, when it was also excellent. We have young guys who are much more talented than most we've had in the VFL over the years who are banging down the door with really strong performances, week after week, but aren't able to get a look in, because our senior side are going well and we don't have a lot of injuries. Paddy is not the only one in that boat.

Not every club in the league has that much young talent not getting a game at all. If they did, then we would have had that every year since I've been following us as well and that's not even remotely close to being the case.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Lol i seem to remember seeing my team spank you guys a few weeks back

Seriously, that's your argument? We spanked you twice last year but I doubt very much that made you think we were better placed than you going forward.

You also got beaten by Hawthorn, on your home ground, the week after we destroyed them by 75 points at their ground in Tassie where they'd won 19 in a row. Does that make us better than you going forward?

 

[aussierulesrules]

IMO he is an old school FF.
Of course he will dominate VFL.
AFL is 10 steps up.
Wont make it IMO

He is far more capable of pushing up the ground than the likes of Dunstall and Plugger or Fev ever were. His best game in St Kilda colours this year for instance was an 18 disposal, 12 mark, 8 inside-50 game in the JLT, where he basically played the traditional CHF role and he looked perfectly comfortable in it. He also pushed up to the wings and even HBF numerous times for us last year.

One of his best attributes is his field kicking and passing inside the F50, so it wouldn't actually surprise me if he plays more CHF and Bruce plays more inside 50, going forward.

Johnno Brown also watched him closely in a game he did of ours last year and he also remarked how surprised he was at how much ground Paddy was able to cover and how he didn't think he had that sort of mobility in him. He was a huge wrap for him and I've heard him say numerous times that he believes he'll be a "star".

If guys like Hawkins and Tex can play the styles of game they play in the modern game then I have doubt at all that Paddy can as well. No dramas there. Just needs to get fitter, in peak form and continue to improve his 2nd efforts and defensive acts.

If he doesn't make it it will only be if injuries/consussions stop him, IMO.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Such a stretch to have "Lonie, Battle, McKenzie, Long and so on" as an argument for young players. Every club in the league could list 4 bit part reserve players and then say "and so on".

I know this seems like I'm just annoyed at the Carlton part of your statement but rest assured I'm not. If this was a pissing contest I'd just list the dozen young blokes who haven't impacted AFL level yet and say "and so on" and make us look like GWS or the Dogs.

Like I said in my reply to adam, I know the quality of the young group we have in the VFL is very much better than it's been in possibly 30 years, so for that reason I know that not every other club in the league is in exactly the same boat. Otherwise we would have been in that boat every year and we most certainly haven't been.

Maybe in the early 200o's, after the drafts when we picked up Riewoldt, Goddard, Ball, Kosi, Dal Santo, Montagna and so-on, it would have been as good, but generally, no where near it, for 30 years.

It's the same sort of ridiculous argument someone made to me when I said how much salary cap space we had available to us at the end of the year and their reply was that every club has a huge amount of cap space available to them, or something silly like that. Not every club is in the same boat. Not every club has the same amount of young talent as a club that has been rebuilding for several years. It's not bragging, it's just stating a fact.

I also don't see why you would be "annoyed at the Carlton part of my statement" when most on your board acknowledge that you're a couple of years behind in the rebuild. There's a reason we're sitting 6th while you're 13th, despite you having many more over 27yo in your team than us at the moment. You're in the same sort of position we were a couple of years ago, when we still had lots of work to do to get the list where we wanted it to be and likewise had too many over 27yo in the team, for a team who were closer to the bottom of the ladder than the top.

 

[Pykie]

Like I said in my reply to adam, I know the quality of the young group we have in the VFL is very much better than it's been in possibly 30 years, so for that reason I know that not every other club in the league is in exactly the same boat. Otherwise we would have been in that boat every year and we most certainly haven't been.

Maybe in the early 200o's, after the drafts when we picked up Riewoldt, Goddard, Ball, Kosi, Dal Santo, Montagna and so-on, it would have been as good, but generally, no where near it, for 30 years.

It's the same sort of ridiculous argument someone made to me when I said how much salary cap space we had available to us at the end of the year and their reply was that every club has a huge amount of cap space available to them, or something silly like that. Not every club is in the same boat. Not every club has the same amount of young talent as a club that has been rebuilding for several years. It's not bragging, it's just stating a fact.

I also don't see why you would be "annoyed at the Carlton part of my statement" when most on your board acknowledge that you're a couple of years behind in the rebuild. There's a reason we're sitting 6th while you're 13th, despite you having many more over 27yo in your team than us at the moment. You're in the same sort of position we were a couple of years ago, when we still had lots of work to do to get the list where we wanted it to be and likewise had too many over 27yo in the team, for a team who were closer to the bottom of the ladder than the top.

Whats with St Kilda fans in on here recently acting like they are the doyen of all things rebuilding?

Sandringham are currently 6th on the table, if you were the Footscray VFL side you may have a point, but St Kilda, their drafting and their reserves have proved absolute squat so far.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Whats with St Kilda fans in on here recently acting like they are the doyen of all things rebuilding?

You sound bitter, well I'm just responding to the posts that were there, if you have a problem with me responding to posts with what I believe to be true, I'm sure there is someone you can write a complaint to somewhere.

Sandringham are currently 6th on the table, if you were the Footscray VFL side you may have a point, but St Kilda, their drafting and their reserves have proved absolute squat so far.

In your opinion, which means pretty much nothing to me, no offense. Like I said twice now, I've been following the club closely for almost 30 years now and you know when you have real young talent sitting in the reserves and when you don't (in the Lyon years for instance it was terrible) and right now we have young guys banging down the door with really strong performances consistently, who aren't getting a look in, which is not usually the case most years by any means.

Paddy for instance kicked 7.3 a couple of weeks ago and would have come into most sides off the back of that sort of game, but not us, and yesterday he apparently took 4 or 5 contested marks in the last quarter alone and kicked 2.3 for the quarter, to get Sandy over the line (they were behind at 3/4 time) and Gilbee (who coaches Sandy) said he "not only banged down the door, but kicked off the hinges", yet there is every chance that he will again not get a game this week and there are others similarly banging down the door consistently, who we just don't have a spot for.

Bailey Rice for instance has been playing terrifically well and the club have reportedly said he's "more than ready to play AFL", yet he's probably behind both of Savage and McKenzie for as spot, as they have also been playing really well consistently in the VFL. Jimmy Webster is having a break-out year for us and he broke his hand on the weekend and in many years we'd be happy to have one guy in good form to replace him, but we have at least 3 who we'd be more than happy to bring in for him, which is far from usual, in my experience.

Whether that results in an amazing team performance for Sandy or not is another matter entirely, because there is much more that comes into it, like who else they have playing with them from Sandringham FC (and most of their best have left over the last couple of years), whether the team have jelled as a group and so-on.

I'm just telling you what I believe to be true. You're free to disagree if you feel you know better about what's going on at my club than I do though. They're all just opinions.

 

[Carefree]

How long did Hawkins take to get his s**t together
Drafted in 2006, showed his potential in 2011 look now at him

 

[Bazza97]

That would be Essendon I'm afraid, or Carlton, or Melbourne. You're 3rd or 4th in line.

Melbourne and St Kilda have the better future prospects than Essendon and Carlton atm. Both have been rebuilding steadily for the past few years and both teams are now at a stage where they can beat anyone. With how open this year is with the top 8, both teams can definitely make it and I think both have the capability to make the top 4. I think both lists are balanced in terms of the quality and depth covered in all areas of the ground. Carlton and Essendon still have more glaring gaps in their lists atm but their lists are still developing so I'll cut them some slack.

Also it has been widely reported that St Kilda have been developing a "war chest" for the past few years. Combine that with their draft currency (Hawthorn's first round pick and pick 10) the Saints are in a good position come the trade period to add some more quality to their ranks. Fyfe and Kelly have been the most widely reported targets and if they could land one of them that would be huge for St Kilda. Someone like Hopper from the Giants would be an important long term addition as well if they can get him. Regardless, the Saints are in a really good position come the off-season and they should be able to add more quality to their list by the end of this year.

Will be interesting to see how all 4 of these teams evolve in the next 5 years, but I'm most confident of Melbourne and St Kilda for now and I think both will get opportunities at success in the next 5 years, it's just a matter of whether they can take them.

 

[pinot]

We don't need any key forwards McKay and Kerr are going to be better players.

Waiting for McKay to put on the Kilos and go into beast mode.

 

[00Stinger]

Seriously, that's your argument? We spanked you twice last year but I doubt very much that made you think we were better placed than you going forward.

You also got beaten by Hawthorn, on your home ground, the week after we destroyed them by 75 points at their ground in Tassie where they'd won 19 in a row. Does that make us better than you going forward?

No more stupid than you saying that because you have 2 first rounders and a bunch of ordinary kids running around in the vfl you are more placed than any other team

 

[Roadto2018]

We don't need any key forwards McKay and Kerr are going to be better players.

Waiting for McKay to put on the Kilos and go into beast mode.

Hahahaha no they won't be. In any way, shape or form.

 

[FRASESMITH]

Went on Sunday and saw first hand why Paddy will be a elite key forward in the AFL. Any small doubts I previously may have had were gone after watching him play up close. His leading pattern body positioning and attack on the ball are something that cant be taught. Paddy is the real deal.

 

[WilloTree]

I'd be more concerned over his medical history than his ability to play.

One more concussion and he would genuinely need to consider retiring.

Spot on. Buyer beware.

 

[Bazza97]

We don't need any key forwards McKay and Kerr are going to be better players.

Waiting for McKay to put on the Kilos and go into beast mode.

I hope you're not putting all your eggs in one basket for those two players as your two key forwards for the future. They may become long-term players for Carlton but it's really hard and too early I feel to judge them until they've been exposed to enough AFL footy to get a feel for them.

Paddy McCartin hasn't had a consistent run of footy at AFL level but he's shown enough glimpses so far in his career for people to say that he can become a really good forward. One positive for McCartin right now is that he's been able to find some continuity in the VFL with 5 consecutive games including games with a 7 goal bag and last week he snagged 4 goals. He's certainly putting his hand up for selection back in the side. I think McCartin is going to be a really good player in time barring any significant injury concerns such as his previous concussion issues.

McKay and Kerr, I can't really comment on them as they haven't played at AFL level yet but what I will say is that it's important a player like McKay becomes a long-term forward for Carlton considering he was a high draft pick and also because Carlton are in need of a quality key forward to take them forward.

 

[marcus1232]

We don't need any key forwards McKay and Kerr are going to be better players.

Waiting for McKay to put on the Kilos and go into beast mode.

Having seen both the mckay boys play from a young age i think the north one will be the better player anyway.

 

[Snookers]

He's unhappy at St Kilda and is heading to Geelong.
Just what I have heard.

 

[Roadto2018]

He's unhappy at St Kilda and is heading to Geelong.
Just what I have heard.

You're being incredibly childish.