Paddy McCartin (VFL signing)

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Punts

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Well said. Paddy pretty much said the same as you about playing in the backline early this year. He played bloody well in the 2s as a KPB. Has footy IQ and a decent skill set. Pretty sure the entire footy community wishes him as well as we do.
How many games he play in the 2s in the best?
 

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SGBeach

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He played stuff all and was hardly in the best in the vfl site if ever

didn’t take much for him to weak out when getting beaten by a dud
bit harsh considering he had so much time out of the game during his playing days, then had the last two years out of the game!
To be able to compete (let alone compete well) shows enough for me to be excited. Seems the Swans have done their due diligence, and have picked up a potential A-grade KPP for free
 

Punts

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bit harsh considering he had so much time out of the game during his playing days, then had the last two years out of the game!
To be able to compete (let alone compete well) shows enough for me to be excited. Seems the Swans have done their due diligence, and have picked up a potential A-grade KPP for free
After everything he went through you would think he wouldn’t dog shot hey
 

caesar88

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He played stuff all and was hardly in the best in the vfl site if ever

didn’t take much for him to weak out when getting beaten by a dud

I am with you in not being convinced by P. McCartin, but you keep circling back to that incident in the VFL this year. You are one of the first to say that we aren't a team of angels and you'd love to have guys like Toby Greene and Jordan De Goey on our list (well, maybe not the latter now...) You were one of the few hoping we'd take a punt on Harley Bennell a few years back despite his behavioural issues. So you made your position on players with questionable track records very clear in the past, yet you continue to want to hang Paddy for one isolated incident?

If you don't rate him then just say that rather than applying a double standard to him.
 

Bloods86

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How many games he play in the 2s in the best?
He was probably in our bests in a couple of games. My cautionary note is that Brand also dominated some games in defence and we've decided he's not worth being on our list as even a backup. Now, Paddy with his elite potential at draft age, and his limited exposure as a backman (yet showing some form at VFL level), might mean that he exceeds Brand's level in time. I certainly don't expect him to just slot into the best 22 in Round 1, although not impossible given our KPD depth, I think it'll take time and he might not even make it. Worth picking him anyway, it's a relatively free hit, especially since we did nothing to strengthen this area in the draft and we removed yet another KPD from our list.
 

caesar88

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Up there with the hall monitor.

Back on Paddy. His main attributes for me are footy IQ and disposal skills. I can still see a 35-40mt pass that went like a tracer bullet to its mark.

You're basing this off reserves form though. Names like Brand and Pink have looked great at reserves level. None more so than your whipping boy Melican.

My reservations about Paddy stem from his lack of pace and athleticism. Which wouldn't be a problem if he was in the team to take the less mobile monster forwards (such as Hawkins, McKay, Dixon) But I see that role as already being occupied by his brother, who has shown he can use his strength and reach in the contest to get on top of those kinds of forwards*. What we need is a defender more like Rampe, but taller. Someone with the pace and mobility to go with the athletic forwards like the Kings, Naughton, Daniher, Cameron etc. That ain't Paddy. So not entirely sold that he's the right fit for us yet.

*This is not to say that Tom is slow or lacking in athleticism at all; I just think his best match-ups seem to be against the monster forwards he can use his body against rather than getting moved around a lot by leads.
 

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Angry Red Bull

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He played stuff all and was hardly in the best in the vfl site if ever

didn’t take much for him to weak out when getting beaten by a dud

I haven't watched nor do I actually know his fitness level but I'm assuming that there would be quite a lead up to get fitness levels right so he could compete. Until then any performance must be measured in that perspective.

Fitness has a bearing on performance and for that matter "weaking" out. You drop off tackles and fail to chase etc when you're not yet fit
 

Grand Uncle Horace

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You're basing this off reserves form though. Names like Brand and Pink have looked great at reserves level. None more so than your whipping boy Melican.

My reservations about Paddy stem from his lack of pace and athleticism. Which wouldn't be a problem if he was in the team to take the less mobile monster forwards (such as Hawkins, McKay, Dixon) But I see that role as already being occupied by his brother, who has shown he can use his strength and reach in the contest to get on top of those kinds of forwards*. What we need is a defender more like Rampe, but taller. Someone with the pace and mobility to go with the athletic forwards like the Kings, Naughton, Daniher, Cameron etc. That ain't Paddy. So not entirely sold that he's the right fit for us yet.

*This is not to say that Tom is slow or lacking in athleticism at all; I just think his best match-ups seem to be against the monster forwards he can use his body against rather than getting moved around a lot by leads.

Saw no great games from Brand, nor have I seen one from the Human Hammy.

Give me a Paddy who can read and act on the play every day ahead of a Lewis who might be athletic but is a footy dunce.

My expectations are moderate. I expect we will get a decent KPD. beyond his brother Rampe the stocks are bare.
 

momentbymoment

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You're basing this off reserves form though. Names like Brand and Pink have looked great at reserves level. None more so than your whipping boy Melican.

My reservations about Paddy stem from his lack of pace and athleticism. Which wouldn't be a problem if he was in the team to take the less mobile monster forwards (such as Hawkins, McKay, Dixon) But I see that role as already being occupied by his brother, who has shown he can use his strength and reach in the contest to get on top of those kinds of forwards*. What we need is a defender more like Rampe, but taller. Someone with the pace and mobility to go with the athletic forwards like the Kings, Naughton, Daniher, Cameron etc. That ain't Paddy. So not entirely sold that he's the right fit for us yet.

*This is not to say that Tom is slow or lacking in athleticism at all; I just think his best match-ups seem to be against the monster forwards he can use his body against rather than getting moved around a lot by leads.
Ideally Paddy plays the monster forwards (aka Reg) and Tom plays the athletic forwards (Aka Richards).
Time will tell ….
 

caesar88

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Saw no great games from Brand, nor have I seen one from the Human Hammy.

Give me a Paddy who can read and act on the play every day ahead of a Lewis who might be athletic but is a footy dunce.

My expectations are moderate. I expect we will get a decent KPD. beyond his brother Rampe the stocks are bare.

You can't just re-write history GUH. Melican was dominant in the NEAFL, that's actually what got him his debut back in 2017. He has shown he can put in great performances as a key defender at both levels, which for now has him firmly ahead of Paddy, who is still a very speculative prospect (lengthy concussion history, tiny sample size of three or four games at VFL level as a defender, no games at senior level as a defender.) It simply doesn't make sense to suggest that a player so speculative he's not yet on the list is ahead of someone we were confident enough in to re-sign until 2023.

Ideally Paddy plays the monster forwards (aka Reg) and Tom plays the athletic forwards (Aka Richards).
Time will tell ….

Yeah that would be the plan, though I feel like both are better suited to the monster forwards and I'm not sure it would get the best out of Tom.

The ideal scenario is Melican just stays fit and he and Tom become the back-line duo they showed enormous promise as in the tail-end of 2020.
 
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Grand Uncle Horace

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You can't just re-write history GUH. Melican was dominant in the NEAFL, that's actually what got him his debut back in 2017. He has shown he can put in great performances as a key defender at both levels, which for now has him firmly ahead of Paddy, who is still a very speculative prospect (lengthy concussion history, tiny sample size of three or four games at VFL level as a defender, no games at senior level as a defender)



Yeah that would be the plan, though I feel like both are better suited to the monster forwards and I'm not sure it would get the best out of Tom.

The ideal scenario is Melican just stays fit and he and Tom become the back-line duo they showed enormous promise as in the tail-end of 2020.

You cannot inject brains. FWIW I rated Maibaum ahead of Melican.
 

Kiama Chris

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You're basing this off reserves form though. Names like Brand and Pink have looked great at reserves level. None more so than your whipping boy Melican.

My reservations about Paddy stem from his lack of pace and athleticism. Which wouldn't be a problem if he was in the team to take the less mobile monster forwards (such as Hawkins, McKay, Dixon) But I see that role as already being occupied by his brother, who has shown he can use his strength and reach in the contest to get on top of those kinds of forwards*. What we need is a defender more like Rampe, but taller. Someone with the pace and mobility to go with the athletic forwards like the Kings, Naughton, Daniher, Cameron etc. That ain't Paddy. So not entirely sold that he's the right fit for us yet.

*This is not to say that Tom is slow or lacking in athleticism at all; I just think his best match-ups seem to be against the monster forwards he can use his body against rather than getting moved around a lot by leads.
Regards your last para I think you're seeing what HAD to happen. Tom was clearly the biggest and strongest defender we had so naturally he got the beasts and mostly did a creditable job. Where we differ is that I think Tom is exactly who we need on the more mobile KPFs. He has a terrific tank and explosive acceleration.
Books have been written about what Melican can and can't do but I'm hopeful that Paddy can go with the beasts and nullify them. We'll know soon enough into the VFL season I think whether it's possible.
Personally, I'm optimistic.
An in form backline of
Cunningham McCartinP Rampe
Blakey McCartinT Lloyd McInerney
Could be something special in finals.
 

caesar88

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Regards your last para I think you're seeing what HAD to happen. Tom was clearly the biggest and strongest defender we had so naturally he got the beasts and mostly did a creditable job. Where we differ is that I think Tom is exactly who we need on the more mobile KPFs. He has a terrific tank and explosive acceleration.
Books have been written about what Melican can and can't do but I'm hopeful that Paddy can go with the beasts and nullify them. We'll know soon enough into the VFL season I think whether it's possible.
Personally, I'm optimistic.
An in form backline of
Cunningham McCartinP Rampe
Blakey McCartinT Lloyd McInerney
Could be something special in finals.

It's reasonable to be optimistic that Paddy will show something, but that optimism should also apply to Melican finally getting an injury-free run at it. And if he is, then it's no competition between he and Paddy IMO, as I think the Tom x Melican partnership offers far more flexibility going forward than the Tom x Paddy partnership would (sorry to sound like the debbie downer ruining the McCartin brothers storyline!)
 

SGBeach

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My reservations about Paddy stem from his lack of pace and athleticism.
and yet you rate McLean very highly
??????????

Paddy is a much better footballer than Brand and Melican. After missing so much footy, Hes had a year to get the feel again, and now hes having a proper pre-season. Wouldn't be surprised if he silences all his critics - down back or up forward
 

Punts

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Probably one of the worst number 1s

the guy turns like titanic and struggles to get up and back

his athleticism was shocking at the saints
 

caesar88

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and yet you rate McLean very highly
??????????

Paddy is a much better footballer than Brand and Melican. After missing so much footy, Hes had a year to get the feel again, and now hes having a proper pre-season. Wouldn't be surprised if he silences all his critics - down back or up forward

Who said I rate McLean very highly? What does that even have to do with anything? Is it supposed to be a dig at my ability to judge talent or something? Because you're the one saying the bloke who was delisted and isn't on our list yet is better than the guy the club re-signed for three years. So you must know better than the club.
 

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