Discussion Paddy v Petracca

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BrutThough

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 2, 2010
9,011
33,531
AFL Club
St Kilda
"Inside story: The psych test red flags that cost Saints a superstar"


Paywalled - could someone with access please post the article?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Article is posted below but I just want to point out it has just taken quotes from Emma Quayle's book on the 2014 draft and slightly misrepresented the actual discussion that happened within the club.

Here is the link to the original article posted on what actually went into our decision.


Inside story: Why the Saints didn’t draft Christian Petracca with the No. 1 pick in 2014
Christian Petracca finished the 2014 season in pole position on St Kilda’s draft board. But the Saints changed their opinion for reasons unrelated to football. Sam Landsberger explains what really happened.

If the 2014 draft was held straight after the season St Kilda would’ve used its No. 1 pick on Christian Petracca.
The explosive match-winner topped the Saints’ talent board for most of the season, with their rankings taking shape from July.

In the trade period they knocked back Greater Western Sydney’s offer of picks four and seven for No. 1, with Petracca in pole position.

And if coach Brett Ratten could cherry-pick a rival star to help transform his team from likely finalist to premiership threat, there wouldn’t be many players in front of Petracca, who they will confront in Alice Springs on Saturday night.

Petracca is the dynamic bull who puts bums on seats, and both his career trajectory and playing style are starting to fit Dustin Martin’s mould.

So with the goalposts removed and cricket pitches uncovered, why did the Saints swing towards Paddy McCartin?

The consensus has long been that the Saints were spooked by the inflated price of key forwards.

In the space of 12 months Sydney signed Lance Franklin on a nine-year deal worth $10 million and Western Bulldogs poached reigning No. 1 pick Tom Boyd on a seven-year deal worth close to $7 million.

“If we go for the best player and we think Petracca is in front, we’re going to have to pay a million plus to get the forward we need,” former coach Alan Richardson said before the draft.

“The market is saying that. So let‘s get one in now and get him to fall in love with our footy club.”

Chief executive Matt Finnis played devil’s advocate, arguing that if Petracca immediately improved the Saints then perhaps they could buy a full-forward for cheaper as a destination club.

But there was another off-field factor contributing to the bold draft call.

In 2014 the Saints hired former AFL Players’ Association wellbeing services manager Matti Clements.

The AFL had recently banned clubs from issuing written psychology tests, however this was loosely policed and many continued to do so.

But it was not a breach of the rule to conduct verbal tests, which Clements did for the Saints.

McCartin passed in flying colours. Petracca didn’t.

“ (McCartin’s) personality and the way his teammates talk about him reminds me a lot of Luke Hodge,” Richardson said.

“He‘s probably not as blunt as Luke, but he comes across to me as someone who’s honest in what he says and does.”

Red flags emerged on Petracca.

Former Saints list manager Ameet Bains and recruiter Tony Elshaug started to question whether Petracca would fit their environment.

Why did the psych test reveal an eagerness for Petracca to promote himself ahead of teammates? Were there selfish traits?

Did his antics at the 3km time trial – ensuring everybody knew he was sore – highlight immaturity? A lack of mental strength?

How come he completed extra training in isolation instead of with teammates?

Petracca seemed to enjoy attention. Would his personality blend in at St Kilda?

“We take the view that the character assessment is critical,” Bains said at the time.

“And with pick one you go to deeper lengths in terms of the people you speak to, in terms of ensuring cross references as you see it, psychologist’s reports, personality reports, interviews, speaking to whoever you think might be relevant.”

But unlike data from physical testing, psychology results are subjective.

In 2015 an elite prospect passed at the club which selected him and failed at a club from his home state.

Same player, different result.

The AFL was also becoming concerned at the coaching going on before the written tests it was conducting.

A sameness emerged in the results because either parents or junior clubs were tutoring prospects on how to answer questions.

The question for St Kilda is were Petracca’s answers a legitimate red flag based on expert opinion or merely an amber light?

Other clubs agree there was a mental question mark, and – under Elshaug and Bains – you couldn’t accuse the Saints of not doing their homework.

They worked themselves to the knuckle that draft and, importantly, the premiership model at the time included a power forward.

Elshaug warned that without a quality goalkicker their vision of returning to finals in 2018 would blow out to 2025.

Did the Saints, perhaps subconsciously, sway towards filling a need instead of taking the best player?

And how much weighting should be given to a psych test?

That should hinge on how hard the talent is to split, although Melbourne probably wishes it placed a greater emphasis when assessing Jimmy Toumpas in 2012.

For Petracca there were also plenty of ticks.

He had the drive to take on employment as a barista at the MCG for the life experience, while the definition in his leg muscles pointed to elite training standards.

It has taken Petracca six years to show his AFL potential, albeit with 2015 lost to a knee reconstruction, but he is now the second favourite for the Brownlow Medal.

Since making his debut Petracca has played 97 out of a possible 98 games. How is that for mental resilience?

The 2014 psych test was completed as an aspirational teenager. What would his results show now, as a more balanced 24-year-old?

The McCartin story is a sad one. An unquestionable talent who was cut down by endless concussions and has now been delisted.

But some of McCartin’s St Kilda teammates believe alarm bells were ringing before those head knocks interfered.

Did McCartin apply himself in a similar manner to Nick Riewoldt when he was drafted at No. 1 pick in 2000?

Was McCartin strict on his diet and diabetes management? Or was he too lackadaisical in football and in life?

In 2014 some at the Saints were privately unsure whether McCartin’s junior dominance would transfer to senior football.

He was a man-child with a distinct physical advantage. Would that carry through when he was playing against men 10 years older than him?

Tony Lockett and Shane Mumford were able to bully AFL opponents just as they did junior opponents.

But ardent Port Adelaide supporters will remember Northern Knights product Ryan Willits as an early draft pick who couldn’t transfer that advantage.

McCartin was more bulk than prowess, whereas Max King never had that concern because he is athletic.

It is why King, before his knee injury, was widely viewed as the likely No. 1 pick in a strong draft and McCartin wasn’t.

If the Saints settled on Petracca then Melbourne was expected to pass on McCartin at the next two picks, taking Angus Brayshaw and Jake Lever instead.

One recruiter recalled his rankings this week – Isaac Heeney (Sydney academy), Darcy Moore (Collingwood father-son), Petracca, Angus Brayshaw and then McCartin at No.5.

“We didn’t have Paddy anywhere near that high (No. 1),” another club said.

“If we had pick one we would’ve been choosing between Christian and Bryashaw. If it was an open draft then (Isaac) Heeney and (Darcy) Moore would’ve been No. 1 and 2.”
 

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gringo2011

Hall of Famer
Nov 12, 2011
31,940
76,058
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
Article is posted below but I just want to point out it has just taken quotes from Emma Quayle's book on the 2014 draft and slightly misrepresented the actual discussion that happened within the club.

Here is the link to the original article posted on what actually went into our decision.


Inside story: Why the Saints didn’t draft Christian Petracca with the No. 1 pick in 2014
Christian Petracca finished the 2014 season in pole position on St Kilda’s draft board. But the Saints changed their opinion for reasons unrelated to football. Sam Landsberger explains what really happened.

If the 2014 draft was held straight after the season St Kilda would’ve used its No. 1 pick on Christian Petracca.
The explosive match-winner topped the Saints’ talent board for most of the season, with their rankings taking shape from July.

In the trade period they knocked back Greater Western Sydney’s offer of picks four and seven for No. 1, with Petracca in pole position.

And if coach Brett Ratten could cherry-pick a rival star to help transform his team from likely finalist to premiership threat, there wouldn’t be many players in front of Petracca, who they will confront in Alice Springs on Saturday night.

Petracca is the dynamic bull who puts bums on seats, and both his career trajectory and playing style are starting to fit Dustin Martin’s mould.

So with the goalposts removed and cricket pitches uncovered, why did the Saints swing towards Paddy McCartin?

The consensus has long been that the Saints were spooked by the inflated price of key forwards.

In the space of 12 months Sydney signed Lance Franklin on a nine-year deal worth $10 million and Western Bulldogs poached reigning No. 1 pick Tom Boyd on a seven-year deal worth close to $7 million.

“If we go for the best player and we think Petracca is in front, we’re going to have to pay a million plus to get the forward we need,” former coach Alan Richardson said before the draft.

“The market is saying that. So let‘s get one in now and get him to fall in love with our footy club.”

Chief executive Matt Finnis played devil’s advocate, arguing that if Petracca immediately improved the Saints then perhaps they could buy a full-forward for cheaper as a destination club.

But there was another off-field factor contributing to the bold draft call.

In 2014 the Saints hired former AFL Players’ Association wellbeing services manager Matti Clements.

The AFL had recently banned clubs from issuing written psychology tests, however this was loosely policed and many continued to do so.

But it was not a breach of the rule to conduct verbal tests, which Clements did for the Saints.

McCartin passed in flying colours. Petracca didn’t.

“ (McCartin’s) personality and the way his teammates talk about him reminds me a lot of Luke Hodge,” Richardson said.

“He‘s probably not as blunt as Luke, but he comes across to me as someone who’s honest in what he says and does.”

Red flags emerged on Petracca.

Former Saints list manager Ameet Bains and recruiter Tony Elshaug started to question whether Petracca would fit their environment.

Why did the psych test reveal an eagerness for Petracca to promote himself ahead of teammates? Were there selfish traits?

Did his antics at the 3km time trial – ensuring everybody knew he was sore – highlight immaturity? A lack of mental strength?

How come he completed extra training in isolation instead of with teammates?

Petracca seemed to enjoy attention. Would his personality blend in at St Kilda?

“We take the view that the character assessment is critical,” Bains said at the time.

“And with pick one you go to deeper lengths in terms of the people you speak to, in terms of ensuring cross references as you see it, psychologist’s reports, personality reports, interviews, speaking to whoever you think might be relevant.”

But unlike data from physical testing, psychology results are subjective.

In 2015 an elite prospect passed at the club which selected him and failed at a club from his home state.

Same player, different result.

The AFL was also becoming concerned at the coaching going on before the written tests it was conducting.

A sameness emerged in the results because either parents or junior clubs were tutoring prospects on how to answer questions.

The question for St Kilda is were Petracca’s answers a legitimate red flag based on expert opinion or merely an amber light?

Other clubs agree there was a mental question mark, and – under Elshaug and Bains – you couldn’t accuse the Saints of not doing their homework.

They worked themselves to the knuckle that draft and, importantly, the premiership model at the time included a power forward.

Elshaug warned that without a quality goalkicker their vision of returning to finals in 2018 would blow out to 2025.

Did the Saints, perhaps subconsciously, sway towards filling a need instead of taking the best player?

And how much weighting should be given to a psych test?

That should hinge on how hard the talent is to split, although Melbourne probably wishes it placed a greater emphasis when assessing Jimmy Toumpas in 2012.

For Petracca there were also plenty of ticks.

He had the drive to take on employment as a barista at the MCG for the life experience, while the definition in his leg muscles pointed to elite training standards.

It has taken Petracca six years to show his AFL potential, albeit with 2015 lost to a knee reconstruction, but he is now the second favourite for the Brownlow Medal.

Since making his debut Petracca has played 97 out of a possible 98 games. How is that for mental resilience?

The 2014 psych test was completed as an aspirational teenager. What would his results show now, as a more balanced 24-year-old?

The McCartin story is a sad one. An unquestionable talent who was cut down by endless concussions and has now been delisted.

But some of McCartin’s St Kilda teammates believe alarm bells were ringing before those head knocks interfered.

Did McCartin apply himself in a similar manner to Nick Riewoldt when he was drafted at No. 1 pick in 2000?

Was McCartin strict on his diet and diabetes management? Or was he too lackadaisical in football and in life?

In 2014 some at the Saints were privately unsure whether McCartin’s junior dominance would transfer to senior football.

He was a man-child with a distinct physical advantage. Would that carry through when he was playing against men 10 years older than him?

Tony Lockett and Shane Mumford were able to bully AFL opponents just as they did junior opponents.

But ardent Port Adelaide supporters will remember Northern Knights product Ryan Willits as an early draft pick who couldn’t transfer that advantage.

McCartin was more bulk than prowess, whereas Max King never had that concern because he is athletic.

It is why King, before his knee injury, was widely viewed as the likely No. 1 pick in a strong draft and McCartin wasn’t.

If the Saints settled on Petracca then Melbourne was expected to pass on McCartin at the next two picks, taking Angus Brayshaw and Jake Lever instead.

One recruiter recalled his rankings this week – Isaac Heeney (Sydney academy), Darcy Moore (Collingwood father-son), Petracca, Angus Brayshaw and then McCartin at No.5.

“We didn’t have Paddy anywhere near that high (No. 1),” another club said.

“If we had pick one we would’ve been choosing between Christian and Bryashaw. If it was an open draft then (Isaac) Heeney and (Darcy) Moore would’ve been No. 1 and 2.”
Thank god Richo and Trout are gone. What a pair of arse hats. We picked a guy to fit in with the dickheads that we have now delisted anyway. So painful to think about the what ifs.
 

Mowman

Premium Gold
May 19, 2013
11,354
31,341
AFL Club
St Kilda
Article is posted below but I just want to point out it has just taken quotes from Emma Quayle's book on the 2014 draft and slightly misrepresented the actual discussion that happened within the club.

Here is the link to the original article posted on what actually went into our decision.


Inside story: Why the Saints didn’t draft Christian Petracca with the No. 1 pick in 2014
Christian Petracca finished the 2014 season in pole position on St Kilda’s draft board. But the Saints changed their opinion for reasons unrelated to football. Sam Landsberger explains what really happened.

If the 2014 draft was held straight after the season St Kilda would’ve used its No. 1 pick on Christian Petracca.
The explosive match-winner topped the Saints’ talent board for most of the season, with their rankings taking shape from July.

In the trade period they knocked back Greater Western Sydney’s offer of picks four and seven for No. 1, with Petracca in pole position.

And if coach Brett Ratten could cherry-pick a rival star to help transform his team from likely finalist to premiership threat, there wouldn’t be many players in front of Petracca, who they will confront in Alice Springs on Saturday night.

Petracca is the dynamic bull who puts bums on seats, and both his career trajectory and playing style are starting to fit Dustin Martin’s mould.

So with the goalposts removed and cricket pitches uncovered, why did the Saints swing towards Paddy McCartin?

The consensus has long been that the Saints were spooked by the inflated price of key forwards.

In the space of 12 months Sydney signed Lance Franklin on a nine-year deal worth $10 million and Western Bulldogs poached reigning No. 1 pick Tom Boyd on a seven-year deal worth close to $7 million.

“If we go for the best player and we think Petracca is in front, we’re going to have to pay a million plus to get the forward we need,” former coach Alan Richardson said before the draft.

“The market is saying that. So let‘s get one in now and get him to fall in love with our footy club.”

Chief executive Matt Finnis played devil’s advocate, arguing that if Petracca immediately improved the Saints then perhaps they could buy a full-forward for cheaper as a destination club.

But there was another off-field factor contributing to the bold draft call.

In 2014 the Saints hired former AFL Players’ Association wellbeing services manager Matti Clements.

The AFL had recently banned clubs from issuing written psychology tests, however this was loosely policed and many continued to do so.

But it was not a breach of the rule to conduct verbal tests, which Clements did for the Saints.

McCartin passed in flying colours. Petracca didn’t.

“ (McCartin’s) personality and the way his teammates talk about him reminds me a lot of Luke Hodge,” Richardson said.

“He‘s probably not as blunt as Luke, but he comes across to me as someone who’s honest in what he says and does.”

Red flags emerged on Petracca.

Former Saints list manager Ameet Bains and recruiter Tony Elshaug started to question whether Petracca would fit their environment.

Why did the psych test reveal an eagerness for Petracca to promote himself ahead of teammates? Were there selfish traits?

Did his antics at the 3km time trial – ensuring everybody knew he was sore – highlight immaturity? A lack of mental strength?

How come he completed extra training in isolation instead of with teammates?

Petracca seemed to enjoy attention. Would his personality blend in at St Kilda?

“We take the view that the character assessment is critical,” Bains said at the time.

“And with pick one you go to deeper lengths in terms of the people you speak to, in terms of ensuring cross references as you see it, psychologist’s reports, personality reports, interviews, speaking to whoever you think might be relevant.”

But unlike data from physical testing, psychology results are subjective.

In 2015 an elite prospect passed at the club which selected him and failed at a club from his home state.

Same player, different result.

The AFL was also becoming concerned at the coaching going on before the written tests it was conducting.

A sameness emerged in the results because either parents or junior clubs were tutoring prospects on how to answer questions.

The question for St Kilda is were Petracca’s answers a legitimate red flag based on expert opinion or merely an amber light?

Other clubs agree there was a mental question mark, and – under Elshaug and Bains – you couldn’t accuse the Saints of not doing their homework.

They worked themselves to the knuckle that draft and, importantly, the premiership model at the time included a power forward.

Elshaug warned that without a quality goalkicker their vision of returning to finals in 2018 would blow out to 2025.

Did the Saints, perhaps subconsciously, sway towards filling a need instead of taking the best player?

And how much weighting should be given to a psych test?

That should hinge on how hard the talent is to split, although Melbourne probably wishes it placed a greater emphasis when assessing Jimmy Toumpas in 2012.

For Petracca there were also plenty of ticks.

He had the drive to take on employment as a barista at the MCG for the life experience, while the definition in his leg muscles pointed to elite training standards.

It has taken Petracca six years to show his AFL potential, albeit with 2015 lost to a knee reconstruction, but he is now the second favourite for the Brownlow Medal.

Since making his debut Petracca has played 97 out of a possible 98 games. How is that for mental resilience?

The 2014 psych test was completed as an aspirational teenager. What would his results show now, as a more balanced 24-year-old?

The McCartin story is a sad one. An unquestionable talent who was cut down by endless concussions and has now been delisted.

But some of McCartin’s St Kilda teammates believe alarm bells were ringing before those head knocks interfered.

Did McCartin apply himself in a similar manner to Nick Riewoldt when he was drafted at No. 1 pick in 2000?

Was McCartin strict on his diet and diabetes management? Or was he too lackadaisical in football and in life?

In 2014 some at the Saints were privately unsure whether McCartin’s junior dominance would transfer to senior football.

He was a man-child with a distinct physical advantage. Would that carry through when he was playing against men 10 years older than him?

Tony Lockett and Shane Mumford were able to bully AFL opponents just as they did junior opponents.

But ardent Port Adelaide supporters will remember Northern Knights product Ryan Willits as an early draft pick who couldn’t transfer that advantage.

McCartin was more bulk than prowess, whereas Max King never had that concern because he is athletic.

It is why King, before his knee injury, was widely viewed as the likely No. 1 pick in a strong draft and McCartin wasn’t.

If the Saints settled on Petracca then Melbourne was expected to pass on McCartin at the next two picks, taking Angus Brayshaw and Jake Lever instead.

One recruiter recalled his rankings this week – Isaac Heeney (Sydney academy), Darcy Moore (Collingwood father-son), Petracca, Angus Brayshaw and then McCartin at No.5.

“We didn’t have Paddy anywhere near that high (No. 1),” another club said.

“If we had pick one we would’ve been choosing between Christian and Bryashaw. If it was an open draft then (Isaac) Heeney and (Darcy) Moore would’ve been No. 1 and 2.”
Little bit vomit just came up after reading that
 

hayes

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 9, 2008
13,780
14,619
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
New Orleans Saints, Chicago Bulls
Haven’t read the article but jeez it’s so frustrating if that is the reason. They’re playing football not trying to pass some year 12 exams FFS. I don’t mind missing on draft picks sometimes but the reasoning is just mind boggling.
 

gringo2011

Hall of Famer
Nov 12, 2011
31,940
76,058
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
Gave all that weighting to the "good bloke" test. Bunch of idiots.

Yep, that was the single biggest load of sh*t ever. A psych got us a bunch of guys who ring their mums every night while excluding anyone with an ounce of alpha about them. If we'd been setting up a church hall board of trustees we would have nailed it. We've done better since Satan got there, I reckon he slapped them all and gave then a-hole lessons. Taught them to pee standing up and sleep with the lights off finally.
 

AirWinmar

Club Legend
Jun 18, 2018
1,069
2,919
AFL Club
St Kilda
Article is posted below but I just want to point out it has just taken quotes from Emma Quayle's book on the 2014 draft and slightly misrepresented the actual discussion that happened within the club.

Here is the link to the original article posted on what actually went into our decision.


Inside story: Why the Saints didn’t draft Christian Petracca with the No. 1 pick in 2014
Christian Petracca finished the 2014 season in pole position on St Kilda’s draft board. But the Saints changed their opinion for reasons unrelated to football. Sam Landsberger explains what really happened.

If the 2014 draft was held straight after the season St Kilda would’ve used its No. 1 pick on Christian Petracca.
The explosive match-winner topped the Saints’ talent board for most of the season, with their rankings taking shape from July.

In the trade period they knocked back Greater Western Sydney’s offer of picks four and seven for No. 1, with Petracca in pole position.

And if coach Brett Ratten could cherry-pick a rival star to help transform his team from likely finalist to premiership threat, there wouldn’t be many players in front of Petracca, who they will confront in Alice Springs on Saturday night.

Petracca is the dynamic bull who puts bums on seats, and both his career trajectory and playing style are starting to fit Dustin Martin’s mould.

So with the goalposts removed and cricket pitches uncovered, why did the Saints swing towards Paddy McCartin?

The consensus has long been that the Saints were spooked by the inflated price of key forwards.

In the space of 12 months Sydney signed Lance Franklin on a nine-year deal worth $10 million and Western Bulldogs poached reigning No. 1 pick Tom Boyd on a seven-year deal worth close to $7 million.

“If we go for the best player and we think Petracca is in front, we’re going to have to pay a million plus to get the forward we need,” former coach Alan Richardson said before the draft.

“The market is saying that. So let‘s get one in now and get him to fall in love with our footy club.”

Chief executive Matt Finnis played devil’s advocate, arguing that if Petracca immediately improved the Saints then perhaps they could buy a full-forward for cheaper as a destination club.

But there was another off-field factor contributing to the bold draft call.

In 2014 the Saints hired former AFL Players’ Association wellbeing services manager Matti Clements.

The AFL had recently banned clubs from issuing written psychology tests, however this was loosely policed and many continued to do so.

But it was not a breach of the rule to conduct verbal tests, which Clements did for the Saints.

McCartin passed in flying colours. Petracca didn’t.

“ (McCartin’s) personality and the way his teammates talk about him reminds me a lot of Luke Hodge,” Richardson said.

“He‘s probably not as blunt as Luke, but he comes across to me as someone who’s honest in what he says and does.”

Red flags emerged on Petracca.

Former Saints list manager Ameet Bains and recruiter Tony Elshaug started to question whether Petracca would fit their environment.

Why did the psych test reveal an eagerness for Petracca to promote himself ahead of teammates? Were there selfish traits?

Did his antics at the 3km time trial – ensuring everybody knew he was sore – highlight immaturity? A lack of mental strength?

How come he completed extra training in isolation instead of with teammates?

Petracca seemed to enjoy attention. Would his personality blend in at St Kilda?

“We take the view that the character assessment is critical,” Bains said at the time.

“And with pick one you go to deeper lengths in terms of the people you speak to, in terms of ensuring cross references as you see it, psychologist’s reports, personality reports, interviews, speaking to whoever you think might be relevant.”

But unlike data from physical testing, psychology results are subjective.

In 2015 an elite prospect passed at the club which selected him and failed at a club from his home state.

Same player, different result.

The AFL was also becoming concerned at the coaching going on before the written tests it was conducting.

A sameness emerged in the results because either parents or junior clubs were tutoring prospects on how to answer questions.

The question for St Kilda is were Petracca’s answers a legitimate red flag based on expert opinion or merely an amber light?

Other clubs agree there was a mental question mark, and – under Elshaug and Bains – you couldn’t accuse the Saints of not doing their homework.

They worked themselves to the knuckle that draft and, importantly, the premiership model at the time included a power forward.

Elshaug warned that without a quality goalkicker their vision of returning to finals in 2018 would blow out to 2025.

Did the Saints, perhaps subconsciously, sway towards filling a need instead of taking the best player?

And how much weighting should be given to a psych test?

That should hinge on how hard the talent is to split, although Melbourne probably wishes it placed a greater emphasis when assessing Jimmy Toumpas in 2012.

For Petracca there were also plenty of ticks.

He had the drive to take on employment as a barista at the MCG for the life experience, while the definition in his leg muscles pointed to elite training standards.

It has taken Petracca six years to show his AFL potential, albeit with 2015 lost to a knee reconstruction, but he is now the second favourite for the Brownlow Medal.

Since making his debut Petracca has played 97 out of a possible 98 games. How is that for mental resilience?

The 2014 psych test was completed as an aspirational teenager. What would his results show now, as a more balanced 24-year-old?

The McCartin story is a sad one. An unquestionable talent who was cut down by endless concussions and has now been delisted.

But some of McCartin’s St Kilda teammates believe alarm bells were ringing before those head knocks interfered.

Did McCartin apply himself in a similar manner to Nick Riewoldt when he was drafted at No. 1 pick in 2000?

Was McCartin strict on his diet and diabetes management? Or was he too lackadaisical in football and in life?

In 2014 some at the Saints were privately unsure whether McCartin’s junior dominance would transfer to senior football.

He was a man-child with a distinct physical advantage. Would that carry through when he was playing against men 10 years older than him?

Tony Lockett and Shane Mumford were able to bully AFL opponents just as they did junior opponents.

But ardent Port Adelaide supporters will remember Northern Knights product Ryan Willits as an early draft pick who couldn’t transfer that advantage.

McCartin was more bulk than prowess, whereas Max King never had that concern because he is athletic.

It is why King, before his knee injury, was widely viewed as the likely No. 1 pick in a strong draft and McCartin wasn’t.

If the Saints settled on Petracca then Melbourne was expected to pass on McCartin at the next two picks, taking Angus Brayshaw and Jake Lever instead.

One recruiter recalled his rankings this week – Isaac Heeney (Sydney academy), Darcy Moore (Collingwood father-son), Petracca, Angus Brayshaw and then McCartin at No.5.

“We didn’t have Paddy anywhere near that high (No. 1),” another club said.

“If we had pick one we would’ve been choosing between Christian and Bryashaw. If it was an open draft then (Isaac) Heeney and (Darcy) Moore would’ve been No. 1 and 2.”
Geez I know Petracca has been good this year, but has looked pretty average up until now and could just as easily fizzle next year when teams pay him more attention next season.
 

puppy_dog7

Club Legend
Jul 29, 2007
2,167
4,215
AFL Club
St Kilda
Article is posted below but I just want to point out it has just taken quotes from Emma Quayle's book on the 2014 draft and slightly misrepresented the actual discussion that happened within the club.

Here is the link to the original article posted on what actually went into our decision.


Inside story: Why the Saints didn’t draft Christian Petracca with the No. 1 pick in 2014
Christian Petracca finished the 2014 season in pole position on St Kilda’s draft board. But the Saints changed their opinion for reasons unrelated to football. Sam Landsberger explains what really happened.

If the 2014 draft was held straight after the season St Kilda would’ve used its No. 1 pick on Christian Petracca.
The explosive match-winner topped the Saints’ talent board for most of the season, with their rankings taking shape from July.

In the trade period they knocked back Greater Western Sydney’s offer of picks four and seven for No. 1, with Petracca in pole position.

And if coach Brett Ratten could cherry-pick a rival star to help transform his team from likely finalist to premiership threat, there wouldn’t be many players in front of Petracca, who they will confront in Alice Springs on Saturday night.

Petracca is the dynamic bull who puts bums on seats, and both his career trajectory and playing style are starting to fit Dustin Martin’s mould.

So with the goalposts removed and cricket pitches uncovered, why did the Saints swing towards Paddy McCartin?

The consensus has long been that the Saints were spooked by the inflated price of key forwards.

In the space of 12 months Sydney signed Lance Franklin on a nine-year deal worth $10 million and Western Bulldogs poached reigning No. 1 pick Tom Boyd on a seven-year deal worth close to $7 million.

“If we go for the best player and we think Petracca is in front, we’re going to have to pay a million plus to get the forward we need,” former coach Alan Richardson said before the draft.

“The market is saying that. So let‘s get one in now and get him to fall in love with our footy club.”

Chief executive Matt Finnis played devil’s advocate, arguing that if Petracca immediately improved the Saints then perhaps they could buy a full-forward for cheaper as a destination club.

But there was another off-field factor contributing to the bold draft call.

In 2014 the Saints hired former AFL Players’ Association wellbeing services manager Matti Clements.

The AFL had recently banned clubs from issuing written psychology tests, however this was loosely policed and many continued to do so.

But it was not a breach of the rule to conduct verbal tests, which Clements did for the Saints.

McCartin passed in flying colours. Petracca didn’t.

“ (McCartin’s) personality and the way his teammates talk about him reminds me a lot of Luke Hodge,” Richardson said.

“He‘s probably not as blunt as Luke, but he comes across to me as someone who’s honest in what he says and does.”

Red flags emerged on Petracca.

Former Saints list manager Ameet Bains and recruiter Tony Elshaug started to question whether Petracca would fit their environment.

Why did the psych test reveal an eagerness for Petracca to promote himself ahead of teammates? Were there selfish traits?

Did his antics at the 3km time trial – ensuring everybody knew he was sore – highlight immaturity? A lack of mental strength?

How come he completed extra training in isolation instead of with teammates?

Petracca seemed to enjoy attention. Would his personality blend in at St Kilda?

“We take the view that the character assessment is critical,” Bains said at the time.

“And with pick one you go to deeper lengths in terms of the people you speak to, in terms of ensuring cross references as you see it, psychologist’s reports, personality reports, interviews, speaking to whoever you think might be relevant.”

But unlike data from physical testing, psychology results are subjective.

In 2015 an elite prospect passed at the club which selected him and failed at a club from his home state.

Same player, different result.

The AFL was also becoming concerned at the coaching going on before the written tests it was conducting.

A sameness emerged in the results because either parents or junior clubs were tutoring prospects on how to answer questions.

The question for St Kilda is were Petracca’s answers a legitimate red flag based on expert opinion or merely an amber light?

Other clubs agree there was a mental question mark, and – under Elshaug and Bains – you couldn’t accuse the Saints of not doing their homework.

They worked themselves to the knuckle that draft and, importantly, the premiership model at the time included a power forward.

Elshaug warned that without a quality goalkicker their vision of returning to finals in 2018 would blow out to 2025.

Did the Saints, perhaps subconsciously, sway towards filling a need instead of taking the best player?

And how much weighting should be given to a psych test?

That should hinge on how hard the talent is to split, although Melbourne probably wishes it placed a greater emphasis when assessing Jimmy Toumpas in 2012.

For Petracca there were also plenty of ticks.

He had the drive to take on employment as a barista at the MCG for the life experience, while the definition in his leg muscles pointed to elite training standards.

It has taken Petracca six years to show his AFL potential, albeit with 2015 lost to a knee reconstruction, but he is now the second favourite for the Brownlow Medal.

Since making his debut Petracca has played 97 out of a possible 98 games. How is that for mental resilience?

The 2014 psych test was completed as an aspirational teenager. What would his results show now, as a more balanced 24-year-old?

The McCartin story is a sad one. An unquestionable talent who was cut down by endless concussions and has now been delisted.

But some of McCartin’s St Kilda teammates believe alarm bells were ringing before those head knocks interfered.

Did McCartin apply himself in a similar manner to Nick Riewoldt when he was drafted at No. 1 pick in 2000?

Was McCartin strict on his diet and diabetes management? Or was he too lackadaisical in football and in life?

In 2014 some at the Saints were privately unsure whether McCartin’s junior dominance would transfer to senior football.

He was a man-child with a distinct physical advantage. Would that carry through when he was playing against men 10 years older than him?

Tony Lockett and Shane Mumford were able to bully AFL opponents just as they did junior opponents.

But ardent Port Adelaide supporters will remember Northern Knights product Ryan Willits as an early draft pick who couldn’t transfer that advantage.

McCartin was more bulk than prowess, whereas Max King never had that concern because he is athletic.

It is why King, before his knee injury, was widely viewed as the likely No. 1 pick in a strong draft and McCartin wasn’t.

If the Saints settled on Petracca then Melbourne was expected to pass on McCartin at the next two picks, taking Angus Brayshaw and Jake Lever instead.

One recruiter recalled his rankings this week – Isaac Heeney (Sydney academy), Darcy Moore (Collingwood father-son), Petracca, Angus Brayshaw and then McCartin at No.5.

“We didn’t have Paddy anywhere near that high (No. 1),” another club said.

“If we had pick one we would’ve been choosing between Christian and Bryashaw. If it was an open draft then (Isaac) Heeney and (Darcy) Moore would’ve been No. 1 and 2.”
but he is now the second favourite for the Brownlow Medal.

He’s been good but Steele’s definitely been better this year
 

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gringo2011

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Geez I know Petracca has been good this year, but has looked pretty average up until now and could just as easily fizzle next year when teams pay him more attention next season.

He's really really improved though. He looks like a super high impact player now. He slaps hands away from him in a tackle and just powers through traffic. He's pretty much the floggish alpha dog we'd love right now. Melbourne are a weird club, their list looks a step above a lot of good sides and still they can't get their sh*t together. They have a bunch of top 10 players and still they find ways to disappoint. Lucky they have Richo now.
 

gringo2011

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but he is now the second favourite for the Brownlow Medal.

He’s been good but Steele’s definitely been better this year

Steele somehow doesn't look as damaging. Petracca looks like he catches attention, Steele looks like he out works everyone else. Steele is more Lenny Hayes, Tracca has more of the Dusty about him.
 

Strahany

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Before everyone dumps on the club, again, for the McCartin decision, take some pause to consider the validity of your reactions, and ensure they’re not just driven by hindsight.

The psychoanalytical data is important; just because it pushed us away from Petracca, doesn’t mean it wasn’t worthwhile. Perhaps if they applied these standards just as well in previous years, we would’ve seen red flags in a number of players: maybe we wouldn’t have traded for Lovett, maybe we wouldn’t have selected a Cripps only for him to go home, and maybe we wouldn’t have wasted a pick on Spencer White due to his lack of drive (driven by mental health concerns, to be fair).

The Petracca mistake is only so obvious due to the background of a dearth of similar mistakes. It’s the exception that proves the rule.

Unless someone has a complete list saying that we would have chosen player X instead of player Y, if not for their outcome on the psychoanalytical front, then we have no way of knowing whether it’s a good or bad thing. For all we know, we might never had selected the likes of Battle, Clark, Coffield, Gresh, King, etc if not for weighting this data as much as we did.
 

Joffaboy

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Before everyone dumps on the club, again, for the McCartin decision, take some pause to consider the validity of your reactions, and ensure they’re not just driven by hindsight.

The psychoanalytical data is important; just because it pushed us away from Petracca, doesn’t mean it wasn’t worthwhile. Perhaps if they applied these standards just as well in previous years, we would’ve seen red flags in a number of players: maybe we wouldn’t have traded for Lovett, maybe we wouldn’t have selected a Cripps only for him to go home, and maybe we wouldn’t have wasted a pick on Spencer White due to his lack of drive (driven by mental health concerns, to be fair).

The Petracca mistake is only so obvious due to the background of a dearth of similar mistakes. It’s the exception that proves the rule.

Unless someone has a complete list saying that we would have chosen player X instead of player Y, if not for their outcome on the psychoanalytical front, then we have no way of knowing whether it’s a good or bad thing. For all we know, we might never had selected the likes of Battle, Clark, Coffield, Gresh, King, etc if not for weighting this data as much as we did.
Exactly, the timeline is not linear either. We pick Petracca, and all our future picks may have changed, we can't just put Petracca in the current team.
It doesn't work that way.
 

saintsrfreak

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I swear to go the next person who says they'd still rather have picked Paddy over Petracca after he won the game off his own boot is braindead. Will rue that decision for another decade still.
No one says that. We get enough Petracca circle jerk on the TV, stop.
 

SaintsSeptember

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I swear to go the next person who says they'd still rather have picked Paddy over Petracca after he won the game off his own boot is braindead. Will rue that decision for another decade still.
No one is saying they wouldn't "rather".
What they are saying is that it was an ok decision at the time.

sh*t i'd rather have picked the winning lottery numbers too.
 

Brains Trust66

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I swear to go the next person who says they'd still rather have picked Paddy over Petracca after he won the game off his own boot is braindead. Will rue that decision for another decade still.
Yes because the recruiters should have been able to tell that Paddy would have concussion issues and Petracca wouldnt . The reality is that at the time the selection could have gone either way .


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Macgruber

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Put it out in front of King not on his bloody head.
The drafting of Mccartin over Petracca is the dumbest thing this club has done in 10 years.

I said the day we drafted Mccartin and I have never understood it.




I hope those saints fans that have bagged petracca are feeling pretty stupid right now.
 

Joffaboy

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The drafting of Mccartin over Petracca is the dumbest thing this club has done in 10 years.

I said the day we drafted Mccartin and I have never understood it.




I hope those saints fans that have bagged petracca are feeling pretty stupid right now.
I wanted Petracca over Paddy, but this is a crap post.
Paddy was destroyed by injury. He had plenty of upside. Petracca took 5 years to come good.
If we had of taken him everyone would have said that Richo hadn't developed him.

As well it isn't linear. We draft Petracca and our timeline changes. We might be worse off than we are now.
 

Crusty Undies

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Yes because the recruiters should have been able to tell that Paddy would have concussion issues and Petracca wouldnt . The reality is that at the time the selection could have gone either way .


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15 of 17 other clubs recruiting teams anonymously said petracca was clear number 1 on the night of the draft.
 

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