Discussion Paddy v Petracca

[pebblesofsand]

Ha ha ha - thats so funny!!!!!

Thats the perfect methodolgy to mount an "argument". Say something that is absolutely unprovable - but claim it as a fact.

Can I try - 36 out of 38 former AFL forwards anonymously told me that Paddy McCartin would have kicked 100 goals a season if not for his concussion issues.

15 of 17 other clubs recruiting teams anonymously said petracca was clear number 1 on the night of the draft.

 

[70s sainter]

15 of 17 other clubs recruiting teams anonymously said petracca was clear number 1 on the night of the draft.

It’s true , just like most of us thought the same thing . However almost Everyone had paddy at no 2 which means he also should have been a gun for 10 years .
Sure Petracca was the better pick but pick 2 is very rarely that far from pick 1 .

 

[malevu]

Pelchen's legacy to the Saints will always be his drafting of Paddy over Petracca.

Even when things were looking grim with Paddy he still tried to justify the selection by referencing the Tom Boyd trade from the Giants to the the Bulldogs on a mega contract. Pelchen reckoned the chances of getting a gun replacement in the draft for Rooey was very slim. Max King says hello.

And to all those saying that the club couldn't foresee Paddy's concussion issues when they drafted him I say fair enough. But what about the fact that he was dependent on match day insulin injections to control his diabetes ? I called that a big risk back then and who knows what connection if any there has been with his concussion problems.

As I've said before I hope Paddy gets drafted by the Demons next year and has a decent career with them. Melbourne ends up with both of them. It's all we deserve.

 

[Brains Trust66]

15 of 17 other clubs recruiting teams anonymously said petracca was clear number 1 on the night of the draft.

Yes but it depends what your team required. Rightly or wrongly they decided that a big strong marking full forward was the right pick for them . Sometimes they pick a player who turns out to be a champion, sometimes they don’t . There is no magic formula to know who will be a champion . Who knows how good or bad Paddy would have been if he didn’t have the concussion issues which ruined his career .
This issue comes up everytime we play Melbourne and I’m sick of it . This endless complaining because you didn’t agree with the pick is really annoying especially when there is no way of knowing how good Paddy might have been .


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Brains Trust66]

Ha ha ha - thats so funny!!!!!

Thats the perfect methodolgy to mount an "argument". Say something that is absolutely unprovable - but claim it as a fact.

Can I try - 36 out of 38 former AFL forwards anonymously told me that Paddy McCartin would have kicked 100 goals a season if not for his concussion issues.

Exactly, well said pebbles of sand .


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Brains Trust66]

Pelchen's legacy to the Saints will always be his drafting of Paddy over Petracca.

Even when things were looking grim with Paddy he still tried to justify the selection by referencing the Tom Boyd trade from the Giants to the the Bulldogs on a mega contract. Pelchen reckoned the chances of getting a gun replacement in the draft for Rooey was very slim. Max King says hello.

And to all those saying that the club couldn't foresee Paddy's concussion issues when they drafted him I say fair enough. But what about the fact that he was dependent on match day insulin injections to control his diabetes ? I called that a big risk back then and who knows what connection if any there has been with his concussion problems.

As I've said before I hope Paddy gets drafted by the Demons next year and has a decent career with them. Melbourne ends up with both of them. It's all we deserve.

Dale Weightman was a fantastic player who also had diabetes at a time when the modern machines weren’t around but it never affected his career . Paddy would have been fine going forward with diabetes.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[stfan]

Pelchen's legacy to the Saints will always be his drafting of Paddy over Petracca.

Pelchen was not at StKilda when we picked Paddy.

Paddy was picked by:

"This upcoming national draft is an exciting period for the club and Ameet Bains, Tony Elshaug and their team are a long way down the path in determining which talented young players will be recruited into the club," Finnis said.

 

[Max the great]

The drafting of Mccartin over Petracca is the dumbest thing this club has done in 10 years.

I said the day we drafted Mccartin and I have never understood it.




I hope those saints fans that have bagged petracca are feeling pretty stupid right now.

What is the point of everyone spewing this stuff continuosly? Get over it for god sake

 

[StCicatriz]

Dale Weightman was a fantastic player who also had diabetes at a time when the modern machines weren’t around but it never affected his career . Paddy would have been fine going forward with diabetes.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

And what about the literature on the affect of diabetes on recovery from concussion?

What about his ability to cope with an elite work load which richo openly questioned?

How about the concussion he sustained from his collision with sheed in an u18 game?

How about the amount of games missed through injury in his final u18 year?

 

[StCicatriz]

Pelchen's legacy to the Saints will always be his drafting of Paddy over Petracca.

Even when things were looking grim with Paddy he still tried to justify the selection by referencing the Tom Boyd trade from the Giants to the the Bulldogs on a mega contract. Pelchen reckoned the chances of getting a gun replacement in the draft for Rooey was very slim. Max King says hello.

And to all those saying that the club couldn't foresee Paddy's concussion issues when they drafted him I say fair enough. But what about the fact that he was dependent on match day insulin injections to control his diabetes ? I called that a big risk back then and who knows what connection if any there has been with his concussion problems.

As I've said before I hope Paddy gets drafted by the Demons next year and has a decent career with them. Melbourne ends up with both of them. It's all we deserve.

Selection committee:
Trout (head recruiter)
Ameet (list manager)
Richardson (Senior Coach)
Finnis (CEO)
Libba (Recruiter)

That was the official list management team that made the call.

The worst call in the professional era.

 

[Jay Beast]

Day of the draft when it became clear we were going to pick Paddy, I dm'd Bains and asked him to reconsider drafting Petracca.
Pointless story and cannot prove it ...but true.
Haunting.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Ha ha ha - thats so funny!!!!!

Thats the perfect methodolgy to mount an "argument". Say something that is absolutely unprovable - but claim it as a fact.

Can I try - 36 out of 38 former AFL forwards anonymously told me that Paddy McCartin would have kicked 100 goals a season if not for his concussion issues.

There was literally a survey on the night by the afl anonymously asking head recruiters from clubs who they would've taken at 1 and 15 of the other17 clubs said Petracca. There was several articles about in the days and following year after the draft. But go on about how I'm fabricating it

 

[Crusty Undies]

Yes but it depends what your team required. Rightly or wrongly they decided that a big strong marking full forward was the right pick for them . Sometimes they pick a player who turns out to be a champion, sometimes they don’t . There is no magic formula to know who will be a champion . Who knows how good or bad Paddy would have been if he didn’t have the concussion issues which ruined his career .
This issue comes up everytime we play Melbourne and I’m sick of it . This endless complaining because you didn’t agree with the pick is really annoying especially when there is no way of knowing how good Paddy might have been .


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

Even if Paddy had had no concussion issues he still would never have been any good. He was short, slow, the exact opposite of agile, had no forward craft or footy iq and the cherry on top he was a diabetic. It was a horrid decision no matter which way you paint it.

 

[gringo2011]

Before everyone dumps on the club, again, for the McCartin decision, take some pause to consider the validity of your reactions, and ensure they’re not just driven by hindsight.

The psychoanalytical data is important; just because it pushed us away from Petracca, doesn’t mean it wasn’t worthwhile. Perhaps if they applied these standards just as well in previous years, we would’ve seen red flags in a number of players: maybe we wouldn’t have traded for Lovett, maybe we wouldn’t have selected a Cripps only for him to go home, and maybe we wouldn’t have wasted a pick on Spencer White due to his lack of drive (driven by mental health concerns, to be fair).

The Petracca mistake is only so obvious due to the background of a dearth of similar mistakes. It’s the exception that proves the rule.

Unless someone has a complete list saying that we would have chosen player X instead of player Y, if not for their outcome on the psychoanalytical front, then we have no way of knowing whether it’s a good or bad thing. For all we know, we might never had selected the likes of Battle, Clark, Coffield, Gresh, King, etc if not for weighting this data as much as we did.

I disagree, it sounds like part of it was about how well he'd fit in with the group and psychometric tests are okay if they stop you getting a De Goey type whose to have some strange off field behaviours, but Petracca bought a special needs kid and his family plane tickets and game tickets in Tassie in his rookie year. He goes around to eat gnocchi at mum's on a weekend. He's hardly Ivan Milat. If you are half smart you can work over the psychometric tests anyway. Trac doesn't seem smart, he seems a big dumb confident guy who's grown up as a gun sportsman and never needed to bullshit.

I met all that generation of players. I can honestly say they are lovely young men. Dan Mac is the sweetest most humble good guy you could meet. You'd love your daughter to date him. Paddy is so sweet he could be a Labrador puppy. Billings is a nice boy who blushes when you talk to him. If you were trying to find teachers for a primary school you would have nailed it. I have also met the golden generation of Saints, Nick Riewoldt is a little bit of a snob and a bit snarky, Sam Fisher is a good guy but also a bit of a prickly dickhead, Brendan Goddard was a flog, G Train was just a bit of a strange unit etc. Lenny, Gears and Stuv were the exception on the over lap.

If you don't go for talent as your primary goal you have lost the plot in drafting. It looks to me a psych has done a Pelican on us and worked us over while taking a decent wage that no-one else would have given him.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Seriously guys , this is not the trade thread or coulda woulda shoulda

 

[gringo2011]

Exactly, the timeline is not linear either. We pick Petracca, and all our future picks may have changed, we can't just put Petracca in the current team.
It doesn't work that way.

Of course it does but it might have been a good thing, maybe we are already playing finals. Picking up guns is never a bad thing.

 

[Joffaboy]

Of course it does but it might have been a good thing, maybe we are already playing finals. Picking up guns is never a bad thing.

But he wasn't a 'gun' for four seasons, his output was not better than Acres.

Steele may have decided that Petracca took his spot and looked elsewhere, our ladder position may have changed and we never get the Hawks sweetheart deal.

It is not linear. The only way Petracca is in this team is if we trade him in this year, not in 2014.

 

[gringo2011]

But he wasn't a 'gun' for four seasons, his output was not better than Acres.

Steele may have decided that Petracca took his spot and looked elsewhere, our ladder position may have changed and we never get the Hawks sweetheart deal.

It is not linear. The only way Petracca is in this team is if we trade him in this year, not in 2014.

He's always been better than Acres, he just never got it all together at once. Melbourne mates have always said he's a gun, he never seemed to play well against us so we never had to confront it though. This year he's gone from a couple of dominant games a year to dominating most weeks.

I'm jealous, he's just the type of player we need, he's got that Dusty ability to turn a game and shrug off players like they are a minor irritation. You can't turn back time but that one hurts. They are the kind of players that don't change hands and you really have to draft them to get them. Even if we draft one now it probably takes 4 years to get the same output.

 

[Brains Trust66]

And what about the literature on the affect of diabetes on recovery from concussion?

What about his ability to cope with an elite work load which richo openly questioned?

How about the concussion he sustained from his collision with sheed in an u18 game?

How about the amount of games missed through injury in his final u18 year?

I asked my doctor about diabetes and concussion and he said there isn’t enough data to know one way or the other at this stage .
So he got concussed playing in u18 game , so what , I’m sure lots of other footballers have got knocked out playing footy . I got knocked out playing u14 local footy by an accidental knee to the head , it happens.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Brains Trust66]

Even if Paddy had had no concussion issues he still would never have been any good. He was short, slow, the exact opposite of agile, had no forward craft or footy iq and the cherry on top he was a diabetic. It was a horrid decision no matter which way you paint it.

Interesting, because I thought he looked like a big strong forward . He could mark and kick . What more do you want ? How on earth could you know whether he would have been any good or not . He would have needed 4 or 5 years of playing full forward at the top level to know that .
I certainly don’t know if he was going to be a champion or not but he wasn’t a no hoper . I remember Geelong were very keen on getting him . But I suppose you know more than all the recruiters at the Saints did at the time .



On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[saintsmania]

People defending club not drafting Petracca are missing a key detail..we also rated him as the best player in the draft but got spooked by the psyche tests and if he will fit in at the club. We were worried about spending $1m on a forward yet we go and spend $900k on hill. Character is important but you cannot ignore the talent Trac had over Paddy. Trac showed glimpses in his first 4-5yrs and now starting to get it all together. Its simple you dont take a speculative pick at no. 1, Trac was clearly a better player.

 

[Brains Trust66]

That’s it , I’m sick of people constantly attacking Paddy and attacking the recruiters because they know more about drafting players than the recruiters do . As far as this conversation is concerned, for me it’s over . It’s bad enough that Paddy can no longer play the game he loves . But the so called experts on here that like to put the boot into a guy who tried his hardest but his career was sadly destroyed because of concussion issues .
This is a good way of driving people away from big footy .


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[StCicatriz]

I asked my doctor about diabetes and concussion and he said there isn’t enough data to know one way or the other at this stage .
So he got concussed playing in u18 game , so what , I’m sure lots of other footballers have got knocked out playing footy . I got knocked out playing u14 local footy by an accidental knee to the head , it happens.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

I'm very surprised to hear that. Is your dr a GP?

Theres plenty of literature on it.

 

[StCicatriz]

That’s it , I’m sick of people constantly attacking Paddy and attacking the recruiters because they know more about drafting players than the recruiters do . As far as this conversation is concerned, for me it’s over . It’s bad enough that Paddy can no longer play the game he loves . But the so called experts on here that like to put the boot into a guy who tried his hardest but his career was sadly destroyed because of concussion issues .
This is a good way of driving people away from big footy .


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

This is riddiculius. No ones putting "the boot" into the guy. No one is blaming paddy for anything. He didnt force the club to pick him. He was entitled to go into the draft and go as high as he could. He gave it his all and everyone is concerned for his health. So much so people do not want to see him re-listed by anyone.

Can you tell me who exactly on here is "attacking" paddy. Because the inference here is you are attacking posters on here in defence of paddy, which is completely unnecessary as I dont think anyone on here has any issue with paddy.

The issue people have is with the selection. Its with the head recruiter and list manager making a horrendous call. One many could see blowing up.

Like it or not its going to be a point of discussion for years to come.

Tbh the club isn't perfect and they certainly were not back then. I know in 2014 in what was one of our most important drafts we were sending two scouts to games here in WA. Trout and Ameet. Now Ameet is a great bloke but he's no talent scout. His background was contract law. Not football. Trout was sacked. So are we really surprised that from the 2014 draft we have two blokes left from a draft the club described as "highly successfull". Its an utter disaster.

 

[George]

Going to clean this mess up later, it needs its own thread. Amazing it's still a topic of discussion six years on.