Pakistan tour of SA

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And the tired and emotional rant that is embarrassingly off topic to anything he was quoting or that was otherwise being discussed award goes to smasha.
 
smasha said:
Australia with a population of 23 million is falling to the wayside due to our limited talent pool compared to countries like Sth Africa with 56 million people,India with 1.4 billion.

It’s incredible how dominant we have been in the long term history of the sport.

In today’s World money talks.
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Yeah that’s completely backed up by the fact that comfortably the most improved side in the world and a legitimate contender as second best has a population of 4.9 million. Never mind that the greatest dynasty of the sport came from a bunch of dots in the Atlantic Ocean totalling barely a couple of million.
 

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PhatBoy said:
Yeah that’s completely backed up by the fact that comfortably the most improved side in the world and a legitimate contender as second best has a population of 4.9 million. Never mind that the greatest dynasty of the sport came from a bunch of dots in the Atlantic Ocean totalling barely a couple of million.
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Doing what Australia have done,well done to New Zealand and the West Indies,like us beating the big boys.

I hope the Windies make a comeback but t20 cricket has destroyed growth of the test team over there.

Loved the Windies.
 
smasha said:
Doing what Australia have done,well done to New Zealand and the West Indies,like us beating the big boys.

I hope the Windies make a comeback but t20 cricket has destroyed growth of the test team over there.

Loved the Windies.
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All well and good, but you need to get out of the mindset that population = success. If it did, China and India would dominate everything. Sport doesn’t work like that.

Why can’t England, France, Italy, SA beat the All Blacks? They are the greatest international sporting dynasty on the planet and their nation is tiny.

In 2003 Kim Collins won the 100m world championship - the USA with a giant population, all the academies and sports science known to man, couldn’t match a guy from St Kitts and Nevis and it’s 50,000 population.

You can’t put 1.4 billion people on a cricket field. It’s 11 humans against 11 humans and that’s the beauty of sport.
 
Feel for elgar. Abbas bowls pies that are so tempting to hit..

Will test sa depth with no puss. De bruyn and co are ivy as they come
 
PhatBoy said:
Would make more sense if he wasn’t averaging 5 wickets a test and 17 per wicket bowling predominantly in the least fast bowler friendly conditions in the world
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Lol mate tell me you typed that out with a straight face? My nan could roll Ireland an west Indians out. He struggled againt nz and now sa he is a plodder at best
 
newblueo said:
Lol mate tell me you typed that out with a straight face? My nan could roll Ireland an west Indians out. He struggled againt nz and now sa he is a plodder at best
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Against 5 of his 7 opponents he averages 25 or less.
10, 14 and 25 against Australia, England and Sri Lanka.

And you realise his average of 19 against the West Indies was achieved in a series that was actually a 1-1 draw until the 7th last ball of the last day of the last test, yeah?

I suppose his 42 per cent of balls hitting the stumps against Australia was fostered by who was standing at the crease.

Then again, he HAS had two poor games so he’s clearly absolute garbage. No player of any quality has ever been through such a lengthy trot.
 
PhatBoy said:
Against 5 of his 7 opponents he averages 25 or less.
10, 14 and 25 against Australia, England and Sri Lanka.

And you realise his average of 19 against the West Indies was achieved in a series that was actually a 1-1 draw until the 7th last ball of the last day of the last test, yeah?

I suppose his 42 per cent of balls hitting the stumps against Australia was fostered by who was standing at the crease.

Then again, he HAS had two poor games so he’s clearly absolute garbage. No player of any quality has ever been through such a lengthy trot.
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So your comeback is he bowls at the stumps lol as I say he is no good outside of weak teams. 124km pies.
 

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newblueo said:
So your comeback is he bowls at the stumps lol as I say he is no good outside of weak teams. 124km pies.
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No, my comeback is that he has had a fantastic career so far and his speed is irrelevant considering there is a bloke in the opposition change room who bowls exactly the same speed and has made a career out of destroying far better Australian line ups than the current one
 
Watching Pakistan bowl is a nice throwback to our olden days when we used to field Venkatesh Prasad, Ajit Agarkar and Sourav bowling 130k gentle mediums in overseas tours and waiting patiently for the moment when the host team got bored and finally declared. Pakistan, in contrast, used to boast an attack containing the likes of Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar, Zahid, etc., all of whom could comfortably bowl in the high 140s and above 150s from time to time.

Not sure what went wrong from there for Pak.
 
Park cricketer said:
Watching Pakistan bowl is a nice throwback to our olden days when we used to field Venkatesh Prasad, Ajit Agarkar and Sourav bowling 130k gentle mediums in overseas tours and waiting patiently for the moment when the host team got bored and finally declared. Pakistan, in contrast, used to boast an attack containing the likes of Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar, Zahid, etc., all of whom could comfortably bowl in the high 140s and above 150s from time to time.

Not sure what went wrong from there for Pak.
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I get it, considering the relative reputations of the two nations’ fast bowling histories.

But most of the current guys in the mix for Pakistan are far better and more skilful than Prasad, Ganguly and Agarkar.

Scary? No.
But better, yes.
Mind you, they’d be a dam sight scarier if they picked their giant seamer that they inexplicably left out for this game.

I don’t get the fascination with pace. Is it great if you’ve got it? Absolutely. It doesn’t guarantee you wickets and success. New Zealand have two guys in the low 130s (if that) plus Boult who, while capable of breaking 140, generally operates in the 136-138 range and they seem to do fine.

No Englishman in test cricket has broken 140 in recent memory.
 
010203 said:


Faf Du Plessis is not a happy chap regarding his over rate suspension.
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I think they are the stupidest suspensions in the world considering half the time they come after days when tonnes of wickets fall and Pakistani batsmen are calling for medical attention one after the other. But it’s probably a bit of karma for zippergate.
 
PhatBoy said:
I get it, considering the relative reputations of the two nations’ fast bowling histories.

But most of the current guys in the mix for Pakistan are far better and more skilful than Prasad, Ganguly and Agarkar.

Scary? No.
But better, yes.
Mind you, they’d be a dam sight scarier if they picked their giant seamer that they inexplicably left out for this game.

I don’t get the fascination with pace. Is it great if you’ve got it? Absolutely. It doesn’t guarantee you wickets and success. New Zealand have two guys in the low 130s (if that) plus Boult who, while capable of breaking 140, generally operates in the 136-138 range and they seem to do fine.

No Englishman in test cricket has broken 140 in recent memory.
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I wasn't talking about their abilities, but as an Indian fan I'm so used to watching our arch rivals boast an attack of ever intimidating express pacers, but also extremely skillful at the same time. Pakistan was synonymous for their energetic fast bowling attack, especially in the 90s and they had a huge fast bowling culture when their pacers were the biggest role models in their country. So it was assumed that while their batting might fluctuate from good to average, they would always continue to churn out express pacers.

So it's disheartening to see a Pakistani attack bowling in the 125-130k range with the new ball in South Africa. I know Abbas always operates in that range, but Amir and Hasan seem to have regressed in pace over the past year or so.

Abbas is a very good bowler, almost an Asian equivalent of Philander but Amir has been poor since his comeback (I know he did average 20 last year, but that's a very short sample size). Hasan has had a great start to his white ball career but hasn't had the same success in the test format although it's only early ages.

I do think you can be successful bowling around 130ks if you're a metronome like Philander or Abbas. It depends on conditions to be honest more than anything, when there's lateral movement on offer, a bowler like Abbas can be more lethal with his accuracy and seam movement he generates than a bowler who regularly cranks it above 140ks but not with the same accuracy. On hard flat tracks however, 140k and above with decent accuracy is always more threatening than medium pacers. The seaming wickets of England and the overhead conditions don't produce an incentive for express pacers to flourish. Which explains the lack of express pacers in contemporary English history and that's why I believe the current English team won't achieve success in Australia because there's a sameness to their attack and slightly one dimensional.
 
Park cricketer said:
I wasn't talking about their abilities, but as an Indian fan I'm so used to watching our arch rivals boast an attack of ever intimidating express pacers, but also extremely skillful at the same time. Pakistan was synonymous for their energetic fast bowling attack, especially in the 90s and they had a huge fast bowling culture when their pacers were the biggest role models in their country. So it was assumed that while their batting might fluctuate from good to average, they would always continue to churn out express pacers.

So it's disheartening to see a Pakistani attack bowling in the 125-130k range with the new ball in South Africa. I know Abbas always operates in that range, but Amir and Hasan seem to have regressed in pace over the past year or so.

Abbas is a very good bowler, almost an Asian equivalent of Philander but Amir has been poor since his comeback (I know he did average 20 last year, but that's a very short sample size). Hasan has had a great start to his white ball career but hasn't had the same success in the test format although it's only early ages.

I do think you can be successful bowling around 130ks if you're a metronome like Philander or Abbas. It depends on conditions to be honest more than anything, when there's lateral movement on offer, a bowler like Abbas can be more lethal with his accuracy and seam movement he generates than a bowler who regularly cranks it above 140ks but not with the same accuracy. On hard flat tracks however, 140k and above with decent accuracy is always more threatening than medium pacers. The seaming wickets of England and the overhead conditions don't produce an incentive for express pacers to flourish. Which explains the lack of express pacers in contemporary English history and that's why I believe the current English team won't achieve success in Australia because there's a sameness to their attack and slightly one dimensional.
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Yeah absolutely, I see where you’re coming from, I sort of went on a bit of a tangent.
 
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