Palestinians Formally Request U.N. Membership

[Dont be a lemon]

By NEIL MacFARQUHAR
Published: September 23, 2011

President Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority formally requested full United Nations membership on Friday as a path toward statehood, rejecting arguments by the United States and Israel that it was not a substitute for direct negotiations for peace in the Middle East.

Mr. Abbas was greeted by sustained applause from many of the delegations as he approached the lectern to deliver his speech to the General Assembly shortly after handing a letter requesting the membership to Ban Ki-moon, the United Nations Secretary General.

"I don’t believe anyone with a shred of conscience can reject our application for full admission in the United Nations," Mr. Abbas said, receiving another round of applause. Earlier, he called statehood “the realization of the inalienable national rights of the Palestinian people,” and said actions by Israel represented “the last occupation” in the world.

Continued: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/24/world/palestinians-submit-statehood-bid-at-un.html

I endorse this action

 

[blackcat]

shalom and goodluck

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

I endorse this action

Shame others don't . . .

''Being on the wrong side of history is never a comfortable position. And that is exactly where the US, Israel and its closest friends - including my own country, Australia - will be if they reside the tide of international sentiment in favour of moving now to recognise Palestinian statehood.''

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/austral...-says-evans-20110922-1kndf.html#ixzz1YyHLyQr9
​

 

[blackcat]

does anyone take Gareth Evans the snivelling idjit seriously? What a hypocrite. Keating and him were up to their neck in deals with Suharto while he was terrorising the ET.

And he was signing natural gas deals in lear jets that contravened UN maritime law, and effectively annexed Timor Gap gas field resources, half a dozen years before they got independence.

Evans whould stfu, and start up his affair with Kernot again to regain relevance he never had.

appropriate he works for ICG, so he can stay out of creating the crises in the first damn place.

Shave the stupid goatie and pseudo intellectual facial hair.

#poor_comparison_ov_facial_hair_with_any_C20_turn_Red_Ruski

 

[evo]

Evans is right though, innit.

Why would Gillard say it is not a good path to peace?

She's full of shit. Populist. Total lack of substance.

 

[rayven]

So if the UN recognise Palestine, what will it achieve? why is Isreal so against it? Has to be repercussions for the Isreali's ?

Is there consequences in the geneva court for Isreal?

End of the day Isreali's(gov) have backed themselves into a corner with the policies they have chosen, they chose and no one made them to give citizenship to anyone Jewish, they chose to activley promote themselfs as a safe haven from persucution for jews which created a need for land and recources as the immigrants came, which lead to wars for terroritory to house them.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Shame others don't . . .

''Being on the wrong side of history is never a comfortable position. And that is exactly where the US, Israel and its closest friends - including my own country, Australia - will be if they reside the tide of international sentiment in favour of moving now to recognise Palestinian statehood.''

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/austral...-says-evans-20110922-1kndf.html#ixzz1YyHLyQr9​

Ummm, Gareth Evans IS endorsing Palestinian statehood.

But Mr Evans, who is president emeritus of the International Crisis Group, claimed a change of direction on the Israel-Palestine conflict would be of huge benefit to the West in relations with the Islamic world and said accepting a Palestinian state ''once and for all'' would bolster Israel's security.​

Reside the tide? Could be shoddy editing. Gareth might have been saying,

''Being on the wrong side of history is never a comfortable position. And that is exactly where the US, Israel and its closest friends - including my own country, Australia - will be if they resist the tide of international sentiment in favour of moving now to recognise Palestinian statehood.''

International opinion is massed in favour of Palestinian statehood. Australia would most definitely be resisting the tide if it went with fellow recalcitrants in the United States and Israel.


​

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Gareth endorses.

Julia does not

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

True. Then again, the only time a ranga would make actual sense is this Saturday, when Lingy holds that Cup aloft and delivers the victory speech

 

[telsor]

I do not support this.

Nothing to do with it being Palestine, but rather, as a process issue..

"requested full United Nations membership on Friday as a path toward statehood,"

I feel that if/when a state should form, they should THEN join the UN.

Doing it before then seems, to me, to be putting the cart before the horse.

 

[rayven]

I feel that if/when a state should form, they should THEN join the UN.

Doing it before then seems, to me, to be putting the cart before the horse.

Whats stopping the becoming a state?


On the UN vote, Germany is sitting on the fence.

 

[blackcat]

I know Gareth endorses folks, but he is still a hypocrite. Why is not what was good for the Australies, good for the Israelis? Talking 21C Timor Gap, not Aus colonisation. But, I can see an argument the Zionists use there too, they often hold placards when US put pressure, reminding the US of manifest destiny and the native indians. OK, 300 odd years have passed. But why was that acceptable then, not acceptable now. Should be UN acceptable*2

Evans is right though, innit.

Why would Gillard say it is not a good path to peace?

She's full of shit. Populist. Total lack of substance.

Ummm, Gareth Evans IS endorsing Palestinian statehood.



Reside the tide? Could be shoddy editing. Gareth might have been saying,


International opinion is massed in favour of Palestinian statehood. Australia would most definitely be resisting the tide if it went with fellow recalcitrants in the United States and Israel.


[/COLOR][/LEFT]

Gareth endorses.

Julia does not

 

[evo]

So your argument is we should never support Palestines right to be recognised as a legitimate nation - lest we be labelled hypocrites - because England colonised Australia 200 years ago.

Seems a tad arbitrary.

 

[rayven]

So your argument is we should never support Palestines right to be recognised as a legitimate nation - lest we be labelled hypocrites - because England colonised Australia 200 years ago.

Seems a tad arbitrary.

He's meaning more recent history in Timor and what we sat back and allowed to happen because we had oil and gas deals.

Whats the make up of the labor party in Victoria? Do the rich men with political pull in Isreal like the former melbourne president, donate to labor? Can the Gillard goveremnt handle having this large section of the victorian buisness community against them if Gillard does what most think is right?
They Already have offside
-the hotel barons
-The Afl and NRL
-Coal barons
-Tobbacco barons
-Mining barons

Is there anyone left but rich jewish buisnessmen to piss off?

 

[evo]

ah ok

As far as Jews in the ALP, there's one outspoken zionist who holds a seat in inner Melbourne. Can't think of his name at the moment.

 

[Clay Davis]

Danby?

 

[evo]

that be him.

 

[blackcat]

So your argument is we should never support Palestines right to be recognised as a legitimate nation - lest we be labelled hypocrites - because England colonised Australia 200 years ago.

Seems a tad arbitrary.prefer narrowly defined, conditional -> dogmatic

No, not my argument. And since a SRP vet, you know my position. I dont think the Pali's get the 67 borders. But I have even retired from that position, I would just be for property rights, and human rights for all, compensation for the refugees, and if the Israelis wish to colonise Judea and Sumaria, that is a defacto one-state solution.

I think the Israelis will never budge on giving back 67 borders. I think it will have to be equal rights, not the 6foot deep well rights to the Palis, and the Israelis to take the resources, more than just sea gas, but the water aquifers, they are allowed to dig down into the aquifers, the Palis cannot dig more than some footage. May be more than 6, but not materially significant more.

Whenever there is a racism case in the AFL, u will hear the Scott twins, and Harry O'Brien, come out with some platitudes, inevitably include "in this day and age".

My position, it was wrong when Maurice Rioli and Polly Farmer broke ground in the VFL. It was wrong, and should not have happened then. It is beginning a soundbite with flawed premise. But eh, its only Scott boys and O'Brien. No need to make the point they would never get media traction if they offered a more nuanced pov. I see that.

The Israelis were wrong in 48. Zionism as a bi-national state, I am fine with. I am not fine with self-determinism, at the EXPENSE of another population, a native population. Then, now, hundreds of years back.

It was never human then. not now.

That is the fundamental flaw as I see it in zionism, one's self determination, is only fulfilled, when another is denied. There are no two narratives. There is only denial of one native population. And yes, there were oriental jews all across the ME and NAfrica, and indeed, there is Sammy David jnr, there are the Ethiopian JAzz Jews.

PS Evo. To reiterate on specificity to original post. When the Israelis hold the placards to the US, saying "C18 Native Indians in Nth America" when the State Dep starts to pressure em, aint that the most MEGA fail activism and protest u have seen. It basically says, oh yeah, we are gonna do it, we jew it. Extraordinarily example of solipsism <my favourite word for the week, dictionary dot com musta had it on their word'o'weak>

 

[blackcat]

ah ok

As far as Jews in the ALP, there's one outspoken zionist who holds a seat in inner Melbourne. Can't think of his name at the moment.

Melbourne Ports. Goodluck if you are not jewish getting that seat. Danby, Labor, like already noted.

My original post, was about Gareth Evans and Ali Alatas signing a gas deal in a learjet over the Timor Gap.

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=A...Gareth+Evans++Timor+Gap+Treaty&aq=f&aqi=&aql=

 

[Toriola]

there are the Ethiopian JAzz Jews.

Only an Ethiopian girl could win Israeli idol while singing in Arabic.

[YOUTUBE]afOYKRg5N8c[/YOUTUBE]

Not going to be a pleasant time living in Israel over the next few years I feel. Half my friends in Tel Aviv have already left the country... they've all moved to Berlin of all places.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

The Israelis were wrong in 48. Zionism as a bi-national state, I am fine with. I am not fine with self-determinism, at the EXPENSE of another population, a native population. Then, now, hundreds of years back.

It was never human then. not now.

That is the fundamental flaw as I see it in zionism, one's self determination, is only fulfilled, when another is denied. There are no two narratives. There is only denial of one native population.

Hear hear!!

Toriola, from the posts and replies you have made in other threads concerning Israel, I would assume you are Jewish. What's your take on all of this? Could a Jewish Homeland still be such if it was shared with other ethnic groups? MUST the idea of Zionism automatically mean that others MUST lose out?

 

[evo]

I dont think the Pali's get the 67 borders. But I have even retired from that position, I would just be for property rights, and human rights for all, compensation for the refugees, and if the Israelis wish to colonise Judea and Sumaria, that is a defacto one-state solution.

I think the Israelis will never budge on giving back 67 borders. I think it will have to be equal rights, not the 6foot deep well rights to the Palis, and the Israelis to take the resources, more than just sea gas, but the water aquifers, they are allowed to dig down into the aquifers, the Palis cannot dig more than some footage. May be more than 6, but not materially significant more.

Whenever there is a racism case in the AFL, u will hear the Scott twins, and Harry O'Brien, come out with some platitudes, inevitably include "in this day and age".

My position, it was wrong when Maurice Rioli and Polly Farmer broke ground in the VFL. It was wrong, and should not have happened then. It is beginning a soundbite with flawed premise. But eh, its only Scott boys and O'Brien. No need to make the point they would never get media traction if they offered a more nuanced pov. I see that.

The Israelis were wrong in 48. Zionism as a bi-national state, I am fine with. I am not fine with self-determinism, at the EXPENSE of another population, a native population. Then, now, hundreds of years back.

It was never human then. not now.

That is the fundamental flaw as I see it in zionism, one's self determination, is only fulfilled, when another is denied. There are no two narratives. There is only denial of one native population. And yes, there were oriental jews all across the ME and NAfrica, and indeed, there is Sammy David jnr, there are the Ethiopian JAzz Jews.

I agree. That's why I can only see creating two seperates states will ever resolve the issue. Otherwise it will always be an apartheid situation- there is too much narrative that has flowed under the bridge.

Surely Palestine being recognised by the UN would be a great step for them. People should be appalled that Gillard doesn't support that, in my view, regardless of our history in Timor.

PS Evo. To reiterate on specificity to original post. When the Israelis hold the placards to the US, saying "C18 Native Indians in Nth America"

seriously mate, what have Native Americans got to do with the price of fish?

 

[blackcat]

Surely Palestine being recognised by the UN would be a great step for them. People should be appalled that Gillard doesn't support that, in my view, regardless of our history in Timor. seriously mate, what have Native Americans got to do with the price of fish?[/QUOTE]


because my first post was ambiguous. It was specifically about Evans signing a deal with Indo foreign minister over Timor Gap resources. But then I expanded on it, re: US manifest destiny, and our indiginous population. And the Israeli activists like to remind the Americans of their ethnic cleansing with their native indians.

I qualify my lineage's acts that have affected natives. I feel I have to enter that, to a good faith "buy-in" to the issue. If I do not acknowledge my fault, it seems hypocritical. So will Windschuttle hand me my black arm band? And I do see the Israeli's side, if Tassie was a gulag for aborigines, and their activism included some militancy, the refugee issue we have now is a perfect glimpse into what would be. Israel antipode.

 

[blackcat]

Hear hear!!

Toriola, from the posts and replies you have made in other threads concerning Israel, I would assume you are Jewish. What's your take on all of this? Could a Jewish Homeland still be such if it was shared with other ethnic groups? MUST the idea of Zionism automatically mean that others MUST lose out?

It depends on the Zionism I think. Most tend pretty dogmatic. Even Liberal Zionism, is a misnomer, and is anything but, its an oxymoron. LEt Gideon Levy and Amira Hass speak from intimate knowledge instead.

Gideon Levy: "there never has been an Israeli peace camp." http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/there-has-never-been-an-israeli-peace-camp-1.264264

I am sure there is a Zionism that is extremely marginalised, that would consent to one state, equal rights, no discrimination, refugee rights, no jewish law of return, but refugee law of return.

 

[evo]

If I do not acknowledge my fault, it seems hypocritical. So will Windschuttle hand me my black arm band?

If you want to feel guilty be my guest brother.

Personally I'm reluctant to recognise the concept of a country, so ferked if I'm going to feel sorry for something 'it' did a couple of centuries before I was born.

Either way it doesn't have much barring on whether Palestine should or shouldn't be recognised at the UN. I agree with the Gruen Transfer guys, the best thing Gillard could do was grow a backbone and forget about the polls for once and start expressing some of her own views.