List Mgmt. Part 3- And on it goes: The trade and draft megathread

[Scotland]

Assuming we finish top 4-5 and Kelly is our main target.

We shouldn't be offering more than our first round pick. If people want to sweeten it with second round swaps or whatever fine, but if I am the list manager I am not putting 2019 and 2020 Rd 1 picks on the table.

If Kelly is our main target that means Coniglio, Martin etc. aren't getable. If Coniglio is open to a move to WC we're not going to shut out GWS by selling the farm for Kelly, that's nuts.

 

[Candiru]

We shouldn't be offering more than our first round pick. If people want to sweeten it with second round swaps or whatever fine, but if I am the list manager I am not putting 2019 and 2020 Rd 1 picks on the table.

If Kelly is our main target that means Coniglio, Martin etc. aren't getable. If Coniglio is open to a move to WC we're not going to shut out GWS by selling the farm for Kelly, that's nuts.

Sure, if Coniglio is open to a move, he is the priority, although he would hopefully be a FA. But he may well have signed a new deal by then and be off the table. In that event, I think Kelly becomes the priority instead. And I agree we shouldn't give up both the 2019 and 2020 first-rounders. But some combination of the 2019 first-rounder and second-rounder or a fringe player (Venables, Nelson?), perhaps with something coming back - I'd be OK with that if we get the player we want and march into 2020 with a legit upgrade in our midfield.

 

[Scotland]

Venables isn't a fringe player. Nor is Brander. We invested our first pick in 2016 and 2017 respectively into them and contracted them beyond their initial deals for a reason. Sheed wasn't in the 22 all of last year, but he wasn't on the fringe.

If people want to insert Venables into discussions that's fine, but the club would value him at least at the pick 13 they used to draft him. So if WC offer pick 14-18 + Venables they would effectively be offering pick 14-18 + pick 13 in terms of the value they place on him.

 

[Candiru]

Venables isn't a fringe player. Nor is Brander. We invested our first pick in 2016 and 2017 respectively into them and contracted them beyond their initial deals for a reason. Sheed wasn't in the 22 all of last year, but he wasn't on the fringe.

If a player isn't best 22, aren't they fringe players? They might be young fringe players but they're still fringe players, no? That's not to say all fringe players are equal.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Trade for Darling plz

 

[Scotland]

If a player isn't best 22, aren't they fringe players? They might be young fringe players but they're still fringe players, no? That's not to say all fringe players are equal.

Depends on your definition. I wouldn't call every player outside the 22 a fringe player because they are outside the 22 for different reasons. There are half a dozen players on the senior list who haven't made their debut.

Schofield is a fringe player, so is Nelson, so is Josh Smith, so is Ah Chee and so is one of Vardy/Hickey with a full list available. Nelson is the youngest of that trio and is 23 this year with 42 games under his belt. Venables is 20 and has played 17 games, Brander 20 and has played 2. Allen is 20 and has played 5, Petruccelle 20 on Friday and has played 6. I wouldn't call any of these guys fringe because at their age/experience you'd expect them to be in and out of the side as they develop. To me fringe implies you've been around long enough establish yourself at AFL level and are still on the block every other week or playing plenty of reserves footy. Ah Chee for example is the same age as Yeo and has played 35 games compared to 135.

 

[Candiru]

Depends on your definition. I wouldn't call every player outside the 22 a fringe player because they are outside the 22 for different reasons. There are half a dozen players on the senior list who haven't made their debut.

Schofield is a fringe player, so is Nelson, so is Josh Smith, so is Ah Chee and so is one of Vardy/Hickey with a full list available. Nelson is the youngest of that trio and is 23 this year with 42 games under his belt. Venables is 20 and has played 17 games, Brander 20 and has played 2. Allen is 20 and has played 5, Petruccelle 20 on Friday and has played 6. I wouldn't call any of these guys fringe because at their age/experience you'd expect them to be in and out of the side as they develop. To me fringe implies you've been around long enough establish yourself at AFL level and are still on the block every other week or playing plenty of reserves footy. Ah Chee for example is the same age as Yeo and has played 35 games compared to 135.

Yeah I'd still say Venables, Brander and Allen are young fringe players. It's not pejorative. It's simply a statement about where they sit on our list and the fact they haven't gone bang and cemented a spot yet. Although Allen is doing a pretty good job of making himself best 22 in a hurry. Probably besides the point, as the question is what they're worth in a trade, rather than whether they fit the definition of "fringe player" or not.

 

[MaxHunt]

Was at the Cats v Pies game and watched most of the Dees and Crows. He was great in close and breaking away, but his kicking is still rubbish. For a game style built around kicking skills he would need to smarten that up quickly to fit in with the eagles.

I'm very much against us selling the farm for him.

 

[Shmiddy15]

Yeah TK is a very good player, but I’m pretty content to just continue building via the draft. It’s worked well for us across our history.

 

[Candiru]

Yeah TK is a very good player, but I’m pretty content to just continue building via the draft. It’s worked well for us across our history.

If we're right in the middle of trying to cash in and win flags, I'm not sure "continue building" is the optimal strategy. I prefer "go bang bang and win some more flags". If we are looking to history, consider what we gave up for Stenglein, Chick and even Redden. Handy contributors to flags, weren't they?

 

[Scotland]

Brander is confirmed steak knives according to Cats fans.

 

[Scotland]

If we're right in the middle of trying to cash in and win flags, I'm not sure "continue building" is the optimal strategy. I prefer "go bang bang and win some more flags". If we are looking to history, consider what we gave up for Stenglein, Chick and even Redden. Handy contributors to flags, weren't they?

Stenglein picks 12 & 28
Chick pick 8 (in the same year Adelaide gave up 2 & 18 for a 32 year old Wayne Carey)
Redden pick 17 (eventual 21)
We also traded pick 18 for Sharrod Wellingham in 2012

Unless something goes horribly wrong we're not going to have pick 8 as that would require finishing 11th.

If we're talking paying a similar price to Stenglein/Redden/Wellingham then it's probably a good decision but when you're talking about trading out of the first round for two years and/or giving up a player recently drafted in the first round then that's over and above what those players cost.

 

[Candiru]

Stenglein picks 12 & 28
Chick pick 8 (in the same year Adelaide gave up 2 & 18 for a 32 year old Wayne Carey)
Redden pick 17 (eventual 21)
We also traded pick 18 for Sharrod Wellingham in 2012

Unless something goes horribly wrong we're not going to have pick 8 as that would require finishing 11th.

If we're talking paying a similar price to Stenglein/Redden/Wellingham then it's probably a good decision but when you're talking about trading out of the first round for two years and/or giving up a player recently drafted in the first round then that's over and above what those players cost.

I'd balk at trading out of the first round both years.

But when you look at those trades, we ponied up for readymade players we thought we needed. We didn't say "nah we'll just keep building through the draft". We identified a need as we pushed for a flag and paid the price to get it done.

 

[Keys]

Closing this thread because we’ve got two trade threads running concurrently- this one that’s continued on from last off season and the 2019 version which is here :

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...ncy-ultrathread.1213170/page-10#post-60287280

Please carry on the discussion there