Rumour Patrick Cripps will go home to WA if Carlton miss the finals in 2021

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FreeTK

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So the Swans got value for Buddy, so therefore it's worth paying Cripps a certain amount?

That makes no sense.
Sweet Jesus you’re thick.

It’s how free agency works.

Players get underpaid in their prime, and get longer contracts and over paid in their twilight years. It’s simply a function of longer contracts (so said RFA don’t come out of contract and become unrestricted free agents) associated with free agency combined with the salary cap.

Buddy was an example, of how that works, and whether Cripps stays or goes, I expect his next contract to be structured similarly.



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Kwality

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Leaving the club is a fair indicator .
Its a better example of the go home factor & that is the only reason Paddy will leave the Blues - Judd had played finals regularly, GFs, a flag etc.
The way Judd handled his exit to ensure the Eagles were treated (Josh Kennedy) is a measure of the man & I'd be surprised if Cripps will not follow his example IF he choses to go.
 
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Sweet Jesus

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Sweet Jesus you’re thick.

It’s how free agency works.

Players get underpaid in their prime, and get longer contracts and over paid in their twilight years. It’s simply a function of longer contracts (so said RFA don’t come out of contract and become unrestricted free agents) associated with free agency combined with the salary cap.

Buddy was an example, of how that works, and whether Cripps stays or goes, I expect his next contract to be structured similarly.
This makes no specific point about how much Cripps should be offered. Get a better analogy.

How would $6 million over six years equate to Cripps being "underpaid in his prime"?

That would be about right for Cripps at 27, 28, 29 but then overs at 31, 32.
 
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Lach72

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I'm not sure we'd take him...he's battered around and we have a heap of first round draft picks that will need the coin he will take.
Carlton would force a trade and would then expect 2 firsts...meh
 

Sweet Jesus

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I'm not sure we'd take him...he's battered around and we have a heap of first round draft picks that will need the coin he will take.
Carlton would force a trade and would then expect 2 firsts...meh
I think both WA teams would take him if he wanted to return to WA. The question is whether the price would be justified.
 

Sweet Jesus

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I think almost certainly not. Not because he isn't great but because Carlton would bend us/you over.
Well, that's the question. But Cripps probably won't end up nominating either WC or Freo if they haven't expressed a willingness to get the deal over the line. There are a lot of variables. First, we're assuming he wants to leave. Second, that a return to WA is his preferred outcome. Third, that Carlton finish high enough that matching a FA offer becomes a fait accompli.

But if Cripps hasn't re-signed by mid-season, I think we can assume that some discussions have occurred, both with WA clubs and probably elsewhere.

Manager: Cripps wants to leave Carlton. Will you pay him $6 million over six years?
WC/Freo: Yeah, I guess so. But he'll cost too much in a trade.
Manager: OK, we'll ask around elsewhere.

Or...

WC/Freo: Yeah, we'll pay him. And we'll trade a combination of picks/players if Carlton match.
Manager: OK. Game on.
 

Kwality

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I'm not sure we'd take him...he's battered around and we have a heap of first round draft picks that will need the coin he will take.
Carlton would force a trade and would then expect 2 firsts...meh
Not sure he would be value for money for Freo, its about the immediate future & Freo are on the right track now.
 

FreeTK

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Well, that's the question. But Cripps probably won't end up nominating either WC or Freo if they haven't expressed a willingness to get the deal over the line. There are a lot of variables. First, we're assuming he wants to leave. Second, that a return to WA is his preferred outcome. Third, that Carlton finish high enough that matching a FA offer becomes a fait accompli.

But if Cripps hasn't re-signed by mid-season, I think we can assume that some discussions have occurred, both with WA clubs and probably elsewhere.

Manager: Cripps wants to leave Carlton. Will you pay him $6 million over six years?
WC/Freo: Yeah, I guess so. But he'll cost too much in a trade.
Manager: OK, we'll ask around elsewhere.

Or...

WC/Freo: Yeah, we'll pay him. And we'll trade a combination of picks/players if Carlton match.
Manager: OK. Game on.
The problem for West Coast is they can not guarantee they are able to get a deal done.

If Carlton match, West Coast do not have the capital to satisfy Carlton.

Under AFL rules they would need permission from AFL to trade either their 2021, or 2022 first round pick, and don't have players that would be willing to be traded that can compensate Carlton for losing Cripps.

It could end up being he nominates West Coast, Carlton match, the deal lapses after 7 days, and then Carlton say to Cripps - We can get you back to WA (to Freo) for Cerra/Young/Serong and their first round pick.

Best shot is Carlton have a bad season and receive a good pick for not matching.
 

Sweet Jesus

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Not sure he would be value for money for Freo, its about the immediate future & Freo are on the right track now.
He would fit quite neatly into a hole in their age profile. If Freo improve enough in 2021 to make finals, I think Cripps' appeal to them skyrockets.

Do they want to challenge before Fyfe finishes or don't they? Fyfe turns 30 in September. I think that creates a a degree of urgency for them.
 
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Sweet Jesus

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The problem for West Coast is they can not guarantee they are able to get a deal done.

If Carlton match, West Coast do not have the capital to satisfy Carlton.
They'd have to get creative but of course they have the capital. It would mean bundling up picks and moving some players.

The question is whether they should do that.

Under AFL rules they would need permission from AFL to trade either their 2021, or 2022 first round pick, and don't have players that would be willing to be traded that can compensate Carlton for losing Cripps.
How do you know this?

It could end up being he nominates West Coast, Carlton match, the deal lapses after 7 days, and then Carlton say to Cripps - We can get you back to WA (to Freo) for Cerra/Young/Serong and their first round pick.
But it likely won't get to the point of Cripps nominating WC if WC aren't willing and able to facilitate a deal should Carlton match.

Cripps: I want to go to WC.
WC: Oh wait, what? That's a surprise. Now what do we do?

It doesn't get to that point without some planning behind the scenes.

Best shot is Carlton have a bad season and receive a good pick for not matching.
Yes, that would be ideal.
 
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FreeTK

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They'd have to get creative but of course they have the capital. It would mean bundling up picks and moving some players.

The question is whether they should do that.

How do you know this?

Yes, that would be ideal.
What players would be suitable as part of a trade? West Coast have made it abundantly clear that they do not trade players unless they ask to be traded.The only ones I can think of is Duggan, Pettrucelle, or Brander. Given Duggan just had his best year, Petch just signed for 3 years, that really leaves Brander, and what kind of currency does he really have? Probably not much, to be honest.

RE: rule around first round draft picks, see below:


"That means the Bombers satisfy the AFL's new rule, which comes into play next year, regarding the use of at least two first-round picks in the previous four-year period.

The only exception to that is where a club has applied for and received special permission, with the AFL weighing up the age of the players brought in and other draft selections used in that time."




West Coast's last first round pick was 2017 (Brander) and they already sought permission to trade their 2020 first round pick to Geelong as part of the Tim Kelly Trade.

Carlton will rightfully demand 2 first round draft picks, even with a player such as Brander, and West Coast simply will not be able to do that.

The AFL will not allow West Coast to trade its 2021/2022 first round picks. That would mean by time West Coast have a first round draft pick in 2023, it would 5 full seasons without a single first round pick, when clubs are meant to take minimum 2 over rolling 4 years.

If Fremantle want Cripps, and he wants to come back to WA, they are in the box seat. It's just about whether they can convince him to go there, and if recruiting Cripps, fits within their short/medium term recruiting strategy.
 

Sweet Jesus

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What players would be suitable as part of a trade?
This question doesn't need to be answered yet.

West Coast's last first round pick was 2017 (Brander) and they already sought permission to trade their 2020 first round pick to Geelong as part of the Tim Kelly Trade.

Carlton will rightfully demand 2 first round draft picks, even with a player such as Brander, and West Coast simply will not be able to do that.

The AFL will not allow West Coast to trade its 2021/2022 first round picks. That would mean by time West Coast have a first round draft pick in 2023, it would 5 full seasons without a single first round pick, when clubs are meant to take minimum 2 over rolling 4 years.
Yes, I'm familiar with the restrictions on trading first-rounders.

So WC would probably have to secure another first-round draft pick from somewhere. You think that's impossible?

As I said, we likely don't reach the point of Cripps nominating WC if WC haven't made some moves behind the scenes that would allow them to facilitate a trade. Sitting here 12 months beforehand wondering what that looks like makes no point either way.

We can question whether WC should facilitate such a deal but they have the capital to trade if they decide this is the way forward and Cripps is worth it.

If Fremantle want Cripps, and he wants to come back to WA, they are in the box seat.
That really depends on Cripps and what the two clubs are willing to pay him.
 

FreeTK

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This question doesn't need to be answered yet.

Yes, I'm familiar with the restrictions on trading first-rounders.

So WC would probably have to secure another first-round draft pick from somewhere. You think that's impossible?


As I said, we likely don't reach the point of Cripps nominating WC if WC haven't made some moves behind the scenes that would allow them to facilitate a trade. Sitting here 12 months beforehand wondering what that looks like makes no point either way.

We can question whether WC should facilitate such a deal but they have the capital to trade if they decide this is the way forward and Cripps is worth it.

That really depends on Cripps and what the two clubs are willing to pay him.
Given West Coasts' well known stance that they don't trade players unless they ask for a trade, we have pretty limited capital.

I can't think of many players on our list who are worth a first round pick that we would be willing to trade to be honest, when you consider each players age profile and talent/ability/willingness to be part of a trade.

There is a long time between now and when Cripps makes his intentions known, but West Coast's trade capital is not particularly attractive.
 

Sweet Jesus

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Given West Coasts' well known stance that they don't trade players unless they ask for a trade, we have pretty limited capital.

I can't think of many players on our list who are worth a first round pick that we would be willing to trade to be honest, when you consider each players age profile and talent/ability/willingness to be part of a trade.

There is a long time between now and when Cripps makes his intentions known, but West Coast's trade capital is not particularly attractive.
So they'd need to get another first-rounder. That is clearly not impossible. You simply don't know who'll be on the table in nine months.

Do you reckon the Dogs expected Dunkley would be asking for a trade at the start of 2020?
 

FreeTK

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So they'd need to get another first-rounder. That is clearly not impossible. You simply don't know who'll be on the table in nine months.

Do you reckon the Dogs expected Dunkley would be asking for a trade at the start of 2020?
They would need to find minimum 1 first round, quite possibly 2.

I would be surprised if AFL let West Coast trade either 2021 or 2022 first rounders.
 

Obeanie1

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Given West Coasts' well known stance that they don't trade players unless they ask for a trade, we have pretty limited capital.

I can't think of many players on our list who are worth a first round pick that we would be willing to trade to be honest, when you consider each players age profile and talent/ability/willingness to be part of a trade.

There is a long time between now and when Cripps makes his intentions known, but West Coast's trade capital is not particularly attractive.
Bailey Williams
Jarrod Brander
Petrucelle

That is three players who would interest the Blues and who may be keen for more opportunity. Ready to fight for a best 22 spot or as a min add instant depth.

Picks, well we have what we have and what the AFL will allow.
 

FreeTK

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Bailey Williams
Jarrod Brander
Petrucelle

That is three players who would interest the Blues and who may be keen for more opportunity. Ready to fight for a best 22 spot or as a min add instant depth.

Picks, well we have what we have and what the AFL will allow.
Agree with Williams, although Carlton have Pittonet and De Koning.

Carlton were interested in Petruccelle, but he signed on for 3 years, and more likely wouldn't agree to be traded.

Brander fits, but at present has very little trade value.
 

Kwality

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Bailey Williams
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That is three players who would interest the Blues and who may be keen for more opportunity. Ready to fight for a best 22 spot or as a min add instant depth.

Picks, well we have what we have and what the AFL will allow.
These guys are yet to put together a decent string of games, not arguing they wont make it, but as of now they are steak knives material, we are talking Cripps.
 

Farang83150

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The problem for West Coast is they can not guarantee they are able to get a deal done.

If Carlton match, West Coast do not have the capital to satisfy Carlton.

Under AFL rules they would need permission from AFL to trade either their 2021, or 2022 first round pick, and don't have players that would be willing to be traded that can compensate Carlton for losing Cripps.

It could end up being he nominates West Coast, Carlton match, the deal lapses after 7 days, and then Carlton say to Cripps - We can get you back to WA (to Freo) for Cerra/Young/Serong and their first round pick.

Best shot is Carlton have a bad season and receive a good pick for not matching.
You have no idea what WC can or can't do re a deal, your guessing as all the rest here are and as for Freo moving any of those 3 IMO your absolutely dreaming.