Patrick Smith Article

[Avid_Avenger]

Geez it shits me when people blame Neesham for every thing that has gone wrong with this club. Neesham has more coaching ability than DD & CC combined. Give Harvey time and he will prove himself to be better than DD & CC

Cut and paste from 28th January 2008
Neesham wanted to build a club with a bit of soul & asked the AFL to be left out of the draft in return for the recruiting zones of EFFC & SFFC which was rejected. Instead we got the worst deal of any start up club entering the AFL. Remember, any un-contracted players we did get from other teams, they got the cream of the next years draft making the 1995 & 1996 drafts the weakest ever.

Cameron Schwab was employed to recruit un-contracted players living in Melbourne but there was no quality players that wanted to move west to a start up club with training facilities that resembled those of the Mukinbudin Football Club. (Apologies to the MFC, theirs were probably better.)

Had Neesham instead just gone after the best kids available at the time, we would have been fielding an under 21 side that would have been smashed every week & would have finished 1995 with out a win, possibly a couple of wins the second year & a new coach to start the third year.

Yes, Neesham made some monumental stuff ups in recruiting but how many coaches are asked to be the coach, recruiting officer, list development officer & marketing manager.

Not what I was referring too Billy.

I agree that we were shafted by the AFL back at our inception and Neesham did amazingly well with the crap list he had at his disposal - some of that was his fault tho by passing up blokes like Matty Lloyd and Farmer in return for average players.

What I was referring too was the way the club was designed and formed and how everyone involved did all they could to divorce our image from the strong successful Fremantle heritage.

 

[Memories]

Not what I was referring too Billy.

I agree that we were shafted by the AFL back at our inception and Neesham did amazingly well with the crap list he had at his disposal - some of that was his fault tho by passing up blokes like Matty Lloyd and Farmer in return for average players.

What I was referring too was the way the club was designed and formed and how everyone involved did all they could to divorce our image from the strong successful Fremantle heritage.

The only way we are going to turn around our perception to outsiders is by winning and beating other teams with complete dominance and then finally winning a GF. Everything else we can do apart from that is just like putting makeup on an ugly chick, ie won't do much.

 

[Ripper]

Geez it shits me when people blame Neesham for every thing that has gone wrong with this club. Neesham has more coaching ability than DD & CC combined. Give Harvey time and he will prove himself to be better than DD & CC

Me too. A lot of Gerard's good work was undone by him being only given a one year extension in 1997 and then being sacked halfway through 1998 - no one could ever say the players never gave their all until then.

The list was then stripped back and many good players delisted or traded away who always seemed to flog us every game we played them - under the dreaded have to "take a step backwards to go forwards policy".

Hase said the "loser culture" was there when He got there in 1999 - it sure as shit didn't start under Gerard.

 

[Ripper]

- some of that was his fault tho by passing up blokes like Matty Lloyd and Farmer in return for average players.

What I was referring too was the way the club was designed and formed and how everyone involved did all they could to divorce our image from the strong successful Fremantle heritage.

We never had a chance to get Llloyd.

The WAFC deliberately distanced the FFC from the original Freo clubs to protect their cash cow whose membership would have been made up of 35-40% Freo people.

Even the compensation pick rort Billy mentioned was proposed by WC to compensate them for all the original Freo players they would lose to the new team (one ).

Why was that?

Because their were no Freo people on the original board.

You would have to go a way to convince me that if there was that they would have sprung a few Sumich's , Mainwarings , Waterman's , Matera's etc loose and they would have certainly closed the loophole that let WC get cousins under F/S.

 

[Jimthegreat]

Walls and Smith have no friggen idea.
Walls was a has been coach when he was sacked by Brisbane. he is past it, his ideas are out dated. He lost players at 2 clubs. he really is not a leader of men.

Walls resigned a Brisbane's coach after getting them into the finals the first time in 1995. Took them from an absolute rabble to a highly respected side. They haven't looked back since. Outstanding at Fitzroy getting them to the finals 3 years from 5, and was a dual GF and once premiership coach, as well as a PF, at Carlton. Yes, he did lose the players at Carlton eventually but not before having much success. As for his stint at Richmond. That lot bring the best of coaches down. No-one succeeds there. Outstanding results given the lack of facilities he must have endured at Fitzroy and Carrara at the time.

Suggest you re-check your facts before posting.

 

[campbell]

Walls resigned a Brisbane's coach after getting them into the finals the first time in 1995. Took them from an absolute rabble to a highly respected side. They haven't looked back since. Outstanding at Fitzroy getting them to the finals 3 years from 5, and was a dual GF and once premiership coach, as well as a PF, at Carlton. Yes, he did lose the players at Carlton eventually but not before having much success. As for his stint at Richmond. That lot bring the best of coaches down. No-one succeeds there. Outstanding results given the lack of facilities he must have endured at Fitzroy and Carrara at the time.

Suggest you re-check your facts before posting.

I was there the day he was forced to quit. He made that decision mid season, after the Bears vs Footscray match at the Western Oval.



He was loathed by one and all at the club, from board to players.
I do know my facts, and thats why I posted.

My eldest was mascot that day.he and his Dad witnessed some ugly scenes in those rooms.I also suggest you could read the book the CLUB. about my Brisbane Bears/ Lions.

ttp://www.australianrules.com.au/2004stories/top10sacked.html

8. Robert Walls, Carlton 1989, Brisbane 1995, Richmond 1997

After coaching the Blues to the flag in 1987, the seeds of Robert Walls's demise were said to have been sown when he savaged his team after losing to Melbourne in the 1988 preliminary final. The next year, Walls lost the players; in their worst opening since 1901, the Blues won only two of their first 10 games. After losing to Brisbane by three points at Princes Park, Blues powerbroker Wes Lofts summoned the coach to his house to be dismissed. At Brisbane in 1995, wrangling with Bears boss Noel Gordon was among the reasons that prompted Walls to announce after round 15 that he would resign at the end of the season. The Bears then embarked on a rally that landed them in the finals. At Richmond in 1997, Walls stepped down towards the end of the season after failing to overcome the Tigers' suspicion that, really, he was a Carlton man.

 

[Avid_Avenger]

The only way we are going to turn around our perception to outsiders is by winning and beating other teams with complete dominance and then finally winning a GF. Everything else we can do apart from that is just like putting makeup on an ugly chick, ie won't do much.

What performances like the weekend should show you is that we're never going to win a flag until we change the culture at the club and get the players desperate to perform for the jumper, pride of playing for Freo.

I think the easiest and best way to do that is to embrace the culture of the old Fremantle teams and correct the problems with our image that were created during our formation.

 

[Avid_Avenger]

We never had a chance to get Llloyd.

The WAFC deliberately distanced the FFC from the original Freo clubs to protect their cash cow whose membership would have been made up of 35-40% Freo people.

Even the compensation pick rort Billy mentioned was proposed by WC to compensate them for all the original Freo players they would lose to the new team (one ).

Why was that?

Because their were no Freo people on the original board.

You would have to go a way to convince me that if there was that they would have sprung a few Sumich's , Mainwarings , Waterman's , Matera's etc loose and they would have certainly closed the loophole that let WC get cousins under F/S.

Fair enough Rip, you know more about that stuff than me. And as I said to Billy, I agree we were shafted by the AFL and the WAFC.

If that is the reason we distanced ourselves from the old Fremantle teams than that is an even bigger problem than I thought.

Why keep allowing it?

I think its an integral part of what our club lacks with respect to on field desperation etc - the players are playing for a corporate-driven club rather than the tradition and history of footy coming out of the port.

It's not too late to get back to our roots and tell the WAFC and WC to go get f***ed.

Let's put the Fremantle back into Freo.

 

[Lach72]

The only way we are going to turn around our perception to outsiders is by winning and beating other teams with complete dominance and then finally winning a GF. Everything else we can do apart from that is just like putting makeup on an ugly chick, ie won't do much.

You think?

 

[Ysaye]

Possibly a WA CEO, although I'd simply prefer they went for the best available, but where is a WA coach, with Dockers links going to come from?
It's not as if we have a bloke that used to play for us, captain the club (Worsfold) have a longstanding Freo history (Williams) with a coaching pedigree is it? The only person I could think of Scott Watters at Subi and quite frankly I reckon I could probably coach Subi to a flag they're that good.

Troy Cook - 2009 apprentice, 2010/2011 Head Coach, premiership coach 2013

Smart guy who speaks well, played the game tough, had shocking skills so he is likely going to have players with fantastic skills (Those that teach know that the teacher who could never get good at something always ends up teaching that skill really well), and wore his heart on his sleave for Freo.

 

[Moo]

Look it aint rocket science.

Use the draft and trade wisely ...we have not done this consistently over any period.

At the end of this season we will have a chance to add another 2 good players to our list.

We should show interest in any West Aussie wishing to come home but as long as the price is a pick after 30 or a player who is (i) expendable (ii) not committed.

We seem to drop out of a draft 1 in every 3 years and then wonder why we can not break through?

Learn from our mistakes.

Craod did not work out as a forward (when everyone screamed to play him back but we were/are so focussed on another quick fix) and so we traded him for Dunn (who consequently needs seriously to play some games this season).

Tarrant is not working out - if we take a later pick for him (which is all you would get) and fund part of his salary ...we have really learnt nothing. Keep him and judge him on his performances however if he is being paid by us ...he plays for us (even if it is East Perth). Like Croad when we ahd him, Tarrant is AFL calibre and you don't give that away.

Build on adding Palmer, Mayne and Hinkley (we may have just fluked a situation where we have 3 kids who look like a better than even chance of making some impression). My advice is go to the draft again and add another 2 or 3 kids best position type.

Our trouble always has been trading away and not participating in drafts.

As much as Drum drove me crazy - he took Pav and Hase ...how important was that in hindsight?

Every year use your first round pick should be our mantra, in fact for a while we should use our first and second round pick. Heck if I was running the club there would be no late picks used on a MJ - I would be taking a younger kid and try to get a steal on in the next draft.

We have a dominant ruckman, dominant CHF, dominant CHB .....it is a good core.

Phase II is play the kids now.

Play Warnock ..take the stress of Sandi-get him some forward line practice and either (i) convince Warnock to stay or (ii) push his trade value up by demonstrating he can lead the ruck.

Play Dunn ...if he can't make it this season ...free up that rookie space and lets go a hunting.

Head ...in you go - only one way to find out if he is AFL quality.

Rotate Palmer, Hinkley, Mayne ...protect them a bit. Frees up the space for a Dunn, a MiJ on the ball, a Mundy, a Ibbo?

Make Drum the CHB ...throw him the responsibility.

Even throw Tarrant back ...remember junior footy - if you get flooged as a forward they used to put you back. Play Taz in the back half and who knows?

Phase III
If we do this - everyone must just STFU and accept that doing this means losses but palces us off as we will know who on the list can do what?

 

[Maximus76]

just change the song....then everything will work out

(ohh and let go of Mcmanus as he is the curse of Freo - Freo will never be a powerhouse to the curse has been removed...just never make a bronze statue or its all over)

 

[PapaJ]

The search for Fremantle's soul

By Patrick Smith
May 06, 2008
... Shaw and Harvey are both in their third year at the Dockers. You know what you get from good teams, you know what drives them. Aggression, courage, teamwork are givens. Nothing can grow without them. Speed, zone strategies, defensive pressure, tall forwards, myriad midfielders, numerous interchanges are the blooms.

Patrick Smith generally comes up with absolute garbage AFAIC - it usually blatantly wrong, overly sensationalized or an exercise in the bloody obvious - and this article is no different, but he does have pearls amongst the swine usually and this time the above bit is spot on. Speed, strategy, and the other stuff used as excuses is secondary to what the fundamentals that he called Agression, courage, teamwork.

Geez it shits me when people blame Neesham for every thing that has gone wrong with this club. Neesham has more coaching ability than DD & CC combined. Give Harvey time and he will prove himself to be better than DD & CC

Cut and paste from 28th January 2008
Neesham wanted to build a club with a bit of soul & asked the AFL to be left out of the draft in return for the recruiting zones of EFFC & SFFC which was rejected. Instead we got the worst deal of any start up club entering the AFL. Remember, any un-contracted players we did get from other teams, they got the cream of the next years draft making the 1995 & 1996 drafts the weakest ever.

Cameron Schwab was employed to recruit un-contracted players living in Melbourne but there was no quality players that wanted to move west to a start up club with training facilities that resembled those of the Mukinbudin Football Club. (Apologies to the MFC, theirs were probably better.)

...

Yes, Neesham made some monumental stuff ups in recruiting but how many coaches are asked to be the coach, recruiting officer, list development officer & marketing manager.

I'm glad somebody posted this. I'm not saying Neesham didn't do some damage with selections, trading, etc. but in terms of culture, the Neesham name, despite the Claremont FC connection, is also synonymous with Freo - and my memory is that he was certainly one who wanted to draw on the Fremantle Football Heritage far more than allowed. And the early list concessions offered to Freo were a joke and set us on the back foot badly.

 

[malpaso]

What a bunch of utter nonsense. Heritage this, History that, VIC or WA background. All a bunch of crock.

This is a professional sporting team with professional players. The players have to win the games. Something someone did way back when isn't going to help the players out there on game day now.

Harvey will mold these players. We are going to suffer this year as he knocks off dead weight and players that just aren't up for it.

He has the facilities and the financial means to not worry about anything except molding a cohesive playing group.

One of our biggest problems is that our errors or bad games are compounding on each other at a time when we all were led to believe that the team is better than they really are. Harvey knows how BAD we really are.

STOP reading bullshit articles by people who are paid to write carp. The players have to sort this out and the ones who don't won't be in the team for very much longer.

 

[London Docker]

damn

just got over the loss...then read these two articles and get all riled up again

im glad in in london where no-one talks about it

deep breath

 

[raffrox]

The Patrick Smith article is very good IMO.

Robert Walls just goes on to prove his incompetence again, well done Bob.

Agree with the Smith article. If you disagree with most of his article I reckon you are in serious denial.

The Walls article... wouldn't know. Didn't read it and I think I preserved my IQ by doing so.

 

[Avid_Avenger]

Agree with the Smith article. If you disagree with most of his article I reckon you are in serious denial.

The Walls article... wouldn't know. Didn't read it and I think I preserved my IQ by doing so.

LOL

Everyone should be able to find some truth and reality in the Smith article unfortunately.

 

[dont bowl there]

Do people really think if we change everything about the club (Jumper, Song, Name and logo) that we will just start winning? FFS why not embrace the Fremantle Dockers! Why should we have to draw on old Sth/Est Fremantle sides for success? Why cant this group of players stand up and make a proud Fremantle Dockers tradition? McManus as much as some people hate him would do anything for this club, why not get him to lead a 2 hour seminar of what it means to be a Fremantle Docker? The early years, the way they were treated by outsiders etc etc etc. Show some footage of how happy they were after the clubs first win, what it meant to all of them. Get Peter Mann back in to give some points about the Fremantle Dockers. We have plenty of history, just because its not all good doesnt mean it cant be drawn on for inspiration.

Lets build our own heritage, there is nothing to stop it from happening.

 

[Memories]

My only qualm about the dockers name is the fact that some moron didn't check for a registered trademark before coming up with it. So it should probably be changed considering it is a bad name to be used for commercial reasons. Thinking we can't even talk or think about changing it is part of the Freo culture we want to change.

Freo Hammers, Freo Anchors, Freo Mariners and maybe even Freo Pavs . Seriously someone can come up with something good, maybe even let the supporters choose them then vote on them.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Having read the two articles, IF they done Geelong the other night the knives would be back in the scabbard.

I watched a replay of Harvey on the couch last night ...geez I felt for him.

No media savvy and he really gave me the impression there's too much to do as a coach...like he's drowning.
Has he bitten off more than he can chew?

 

[Damp Squarie]

My only qualm about the dockers name is the fact that some moron didn't check for a registered trademark before coming up with it. So it should probably be changed considering it is a bad name to be used for commercial reasons. Thinking we can't even talk or think about changing it is part of the Freo culture we want to change.

Freo Hammers, Freo Anchors, Freo Mariners and maybe even Freo Pavs . Seriously someone can come up with something good, maybe even let the supporters choose them then vote on them.

Freo Hammered, Freo Anchored, Freo Drowning....nup ...bad choices

 

[Memories]

Freo Hammered, Freo Anchored, Freo Drowning....nup ...bad choices

I know they are bad choices, just putting them out there so people get thinking about something good.

 

[longsuffreosupp]

Freo Oreos

 

[longsuffreosupp]

but seriously, we need a strong name, like Fremantle Titans or something.

 

[Memories]

but seriously, we need a strong name, like Fremantle Titans or something.

It's got a nice ring to it. It doesn't really need to be unique in my opinion, because "eagles" is used in many leagues throughout the world, "Hawks", "crows", etc. Titans does sound strong.