Opinion Paul Licuria AMA video

[magpies42]

I do.

You can find threads on here by me suggesting we should establish a women’s AFL team - posted around five years before the establishment of AFLW. So in my case there’s a bit of confirmation bias

Times change. We have to evolve with the times. It wasn’t so long ago (within my lifetime) that nobody gave a rats about women’s tennis but these days they share the same prize purse as the men.

The pace of evolution of women’s footy has defied the hopes of even the most optimistic supporters. IMO we’re well on course, that within my lifetime, women’s Premierships will be celebrated as much as the men’s are.

That obviously didn’t happen in year 1, and it’s not happening in year 5, but fast forward to year 30 and consider that everybody who will be playing the game (and a fair portion of the membership) will not be conscious of there having ever being a time when there weren’t both men’s and women’s teams.



You’re taking the view that it’s a zero sum game, that the forces are subtractive. Perhaps if we didn’t have our VFLW team playing in the Grand Final, those resources could have been translated into raising our Men’s team one or two places up their ladder?

Lica also pointed out that there are additive forces. What value do you put on having international athletes (Diamonds players) setting training standards around the joint?



Our VFLW girls are favourites to win the Premiership in a few weeks (Covid permitting) … if they can pull that off, I would have thought that would create a bit of buoyancy and optimism in the Holden Centre?

Nobody within the clubs or even the gutter trash media at their worst has ever suggested that a women’s program is compromising a men’s program.

But there is one example that I find insightful … Carlton’s 2018 season.

AFL wooden spoon
AFLW wooden spoon
VFL very average
VFLW average

If you just have your AFL team underperforming then it’s hard to guess if it’s systemic or cyclical. But when you have a large body of work like Carlton had in 2018 … then it’s a good sign that their club has systemic problems and it’s time for the board to go. Hindsight has only reinforced that. It’s only now in 2021 that they’ve finally moved their President on.

Happy for their to be a women’s comp it’s critically important for girls to have the same opportunities as young boys. The reality is that it’s not currently as attractive a game, and in my view it will
never be. Look at women’s tennis…it’s rubbish in comparison, but they have managed to get to a point of partial financial independence as a WTA. So definitely worth persisting with even if the AFLW is subsidised for eternity.

Licahas said that the other teams have detracted from the AFL program, that was always my concern and suspicion. That’s not to say we shouldn’t persist with the other sports, but it’s an absolute must that the AFL program is the absolute objective, and everything else gets serviced when there is time and resources to do so.

 

[76woodenspooners]

The reality is that it’s not currently as attractive a game, and in my view it will
never be. Look at women’s tennis…it’s rubbish in comparison, but they have managed to get to a point of partial financial independence as a WTA.

Nobody disputes that the men are stronger, hit the ball harder, and cover the court faster.

But a more attractive game? That’s contentious.

[quote[Licahas said that the other teams have detracted from the AFL program, that was always my concern and suspicion. [/quote]

Can you point out where he said that?

I’ve watched / listened to all his recent interviews, and don’t recall him saying or implying any such thing, but happy to be corrected

 

[jackcass]

I agree with your latter statement. But the Collingwood FC success is measured primarily on the success of the men’s team…1st 2nd 3rd is AFL then VFL then daylight and the AFLW. So with that in mind bringing on a board member that is passionate about women’s sport is a disgrace. It’s not aligned with our strategy and if it is then welcome to mediocrity for ever and a day.

Happy to agree to disagree. Her resume suggests she offers a lot more than just passion for women's sport (as if that's a bad thing). I'll leave you to fixate purely on that element though.

 

[Markfs]

i thought i was special with the cutnpaste...

 

[magpies42]

Nobody disputes that the men are stronger, hit the ball harder, and cover the court faster.

But a more attractive game? That’s contentious.

[quote[Licahas said that the other teams have detracted from the AFL program, that was always my concern and suspicion.

Can you point out where he said that?

I’ve watched / listened to all his recent interviews, and don’t recall him saying or implying any such thing, but happy to be corrected
[/QUOTE]
Got it from the video in the OP. Can’t recall the specific time or anything like that, and really don’t want to sit through it again. I found the experience quite painful.

Tennis I follow very closely, the women don’t train as hard andby extension the quality and consistency of the play is not there. Aside from Serena over her career most women check in and out. The game play is quite loopy, and it’s more about who loses the match rather than who wins it. It makes it’s money as a support act for the men’s games at grand slams. Look at the marketing dollar that tells you where the interest is.

 

[Markfs]

Look at women’s tennis…it’s rubbish in comparison, but they have managed to get to a point of partial financial independence as a WTA.

i had a laugh at this but soldier on...

 

[magpies42]

Happy to agree to disagree. Her resume suggests she offers a lot more than just passion for women's sport (as if that's a bad thing). I'll leave you to fixate purely on that element though.

No doubt, but her remit needs to be the AFL. The bigger issue is her passion for the pies. Eddie and his successes were built on his passion, we can’t afford to have people that are not 200% committed. My view is that she is just a ‘professional board’ player, climbing the ladder. We are but a stepping stone.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Got it from the video in the OP. Can’t recall the specific time or anything like that, and really don’t want to sit through it again. I found the experience quite painful.

The only areas where I think that might have come from are:

- Part justification for getting O’Donnell onto the board for her interest in AFLW … Lica said that he (and others) just don’t have the time to get to all the games on a weekend. I took that to mean that the women’s hadn’t had the attention it needed, rather than the men being neglected.

- We need to have a conversation about whether we want to win Premierships, or … ? I took that to mean (and Lica explicitly said this) is do you want people who are good at what they do, or people who are good at PR? Again, I didn’t take this to mean that the women’s game had been to the detriment of the men’s game.

- In one answer (about whether we intend to renew the netball license) he explicitly expressed his support for the women’s competitions, and talked briefly about how it had been good for the wider organisation.

 

[Markfs]

here's an announcement of a women to richmond's board this year. Not a word about passion for richmond in the whole article...

Palmer appointed to Richmond Football Club Board

Richmond Football Club has appointed former Australian Sports Commission chief executive Kate Palmer AM to the Board.

www.richmondfc.com.au

 

[jackcass]

No doubt, but her remit needs to be the AFL. The bigger issue is her passion for the pies. Eddie and his successes were built on his passion, we can’t afford to have people that are not 200% committed. My view is that she is just a ‘professional board’ player, climbing the ladder. We are but a stepping stone.

Happy to agree to disagree, I'll leave it there.

 

[76woodenspooners]

No doubt, but her remit needs to be the AFL. The bigger issue is her passion for the pies. Eddie and his successes were built on his passion, we can’t afford to have people that are not 200% committed. My view is that she is just a ‘professional board’ player, climbing the ladder. We are but a stepping stone.

Her predecessor (Waitslitz) hadn’t held a membership at all. He married the daughter (Helloise) of Carlton’s patron (Pratt) at the time. Years later we gave Helloise a life membership at an AGM that her mum (Jeannie Pratt, then and now on the Carlton Board) attended and sat in the front row and beamed proudly.

There’s just gotta be photos out there with Helloise and probably even Alex in Carlton garb, and yet none of that received anything like the blowback (*) that O’Donnell has copped.

Why is that?

* Not suggesting that there was anything wrong with Alex being on the board or Helloise getting a life membership … I’m just pointing out the double standards.

 

[Markfs]

Her predecessor (Waitslitz) hadn’t held a membership at all. He married the daughter (Helloise) of Carlton’s patron (Pratt) at the time. Years later we gave Helloise a life membership at an AGM that her mum (Jeannie Pratt, then and now on the Carlton Board) attended and sat in the front row and beamed proudly.

There’s just gotta be photos out there with Helloise and probably even Alex in Carlton garb, and yet none of that received anything like the blowback (*) that O’Donnell has copped.

Why is that?

* Not suggesting that there was anything wrong with Alex being on the board or Helloise getting a life membership … I’m just pointing out the double standards.

You've always been against Waislitz.... Heloise deserved a sainthood

Pratt becomes first female Life Member

Heloise Pratt has been awarded Life Membership of the Collingwood Football Club, and is the first female receive the honour in the club’s history.

www.collingwoodfc.com.au

 

[magpies42]

Her predecessor (Waitslitz) hadn’t held a membership at all. He married the daughter (Helloise) of Carlton’s patron (Pratt) at the time. Years later we gave Helloise a life membership at an AGM that her mum (Jeannie Pratt, then and now on the Carlton Board) attended and sat in the front row and beamed proudly.

There’s just gotta be photos out there with Helloise and probably even Alex in Carlton garb, and yet none of that received anything like the blowback (*) that O’Donnell has copped.

Why is that?

* Not suggesting that there was anything wrong with Alex being on the board or Helloise getting a life membership … I’m just pointing out the double standards.

I was certain Alex was a Collingwood supporter before taking up his board position? He was also extremely wealthy and I’m sure we gained benefit from that, similar to Pratt at Carlton. Happy to stand corrected on the first point though.

 

[jmac70]

I was certain Alex was a Collingwood supporter before taking up his board position? He was also extremely wealthy and I’m sure we gained benefit from that, similar to Pratt at Carlton. Happy to stand corrected on the first point though.

He promised to give us money but don’t think it ever happened. Markfs is spot on about that grub.
Glad he’s gone.

 

[Roverjg]

He promised to give us money but don’t think it ever happened. Markfs is spot on about that grub.
Glad he’s gone.

Waislitz - the Pies' $10 million man continues to donate

Collingwood's vice-president Alex Waislitz will donate another $5 million to the club, on top of the $5 million he has already put in.

www.theage.com.au

 

[jmac70]

Waislitz - the Pies' $10 million man continues to donate

Collingwood's vice-president Alex Waislitz will donate another $5 million to the club, on top of the $5 million he has already put in.

www.theage.com.au

Did it happen though?

 

[Markfs]

He promised to give us money but don’t think it ever happened. Markfs is spot on about that grub.
Glad he’s gone.

He's a serial offender. Promised money to his charitable foundation too...

But no pies fans complained about him for 20 years...but like magpie42 said, he's rich and is mates with eddie, who are we to question his credentials....better to get stuck into woman in bicycle shorts.

btw you should ask sideshow about that $5m. He used to go to Alex's parties in the old days. Seems that they were close mates.

 

[Trickster]

You seem to underestimate how collingwood sells itself. The media reports every single nod of a head, a step out of line. Some of the smaller clubs get nowhere near the publicity that the club generates. You also seem to gloss over the negative aspects of eddie's mouth. A year or so ago, I think it was holden that said that they were going to concentrate on sponsoring the women because of eddie's gaffs. It's been 20 bloody years and he still cant divest himself of his broadiness. The lack of turnover in the directors had been brought to this attention a million times and he was still dragging his feet, and finally his inability to allow the footy side to run the show has brought problems consistently - the malthouse-buckley transition, the gubby saga, the beams saga. These are only the big ones. I have thought to myself that it's only because the club is so big that eddie's stuff-ups havent stuffed it up entirely.

So I dont think we need a megastar to run the club. We need a solid administrator and a board that relies on the expertise available to it on the footy side. The the Saudis dont think that they get tens of millions of free advertising from their piddly little sponsorship of the club, then they can go and buy some more nags, as far as i'm concerned.

There's a lot there and some are valid points. We don't sell ourselves, we are a by-product of being a big club that sells papers and generates publicity. This is the attraction to sponsors.

Ed has made mistakes but ultimately he has a lot more credits in terms of what he's done than his transgressions. Anyhow, this is not to argue those points, but I'm highlighting that he was second to none in promoting us and opening doors and there's a large supporter element that the way in which he and Bucks departed doesn't sit well, I for one. I think both will have a financial impact along with Covid. I think its hard to deny that.

 

[Trickster]

I don’t know what media you consume, but if you generally follow commercial media then there are people in this country who you’ve likely never even heard of who have a much higher profile than Ed, especially amongst young people with disposable income.

Fair points overall 76. I'm in mid 40s but am traditional in media I consume. Tv shows, Fox, newspapers, news websites etc. Not on facebook, twitter, rarely watch youtube etc. BF is the extent of my social media! But its more to do with my privacy considerations than not acknowledging how powerful they are / can be. In terms of these larger characters football wise outside the mainstream, out of curiosity who are they?

My over-riding concern is that we've made two substantial changes which I am not convinced were made for the right reasons or overly well thought out. Those 2 factors along with not landing a big coaching fish, may come back to haunt the board.

And I agree with you, if we got rid of Clarko after 4 flags, there'd be mutiny.

Time will tell, I just hope we beat the scum this Sunday.

 

[76woodenspooners]

In terms of these larger characters football wise outside the mainstream, out of curiosity who are they?

This discussion is in the context of sponsorship, and if you consider typical companies that sponsor footy clubs: insurance companies, car companies, financial services companies, supermarkets …

… there’s nothing that ties them specifically to football. Those companies just want to get their brand in front of as many eyeballs as possible. They happen to choose football, however they could just as easily pay to plaster their brand on a different billboard.

An example of characters are Blair Joscelyne (Moog) and Marty Mulholland. They are two knockabout lads in Sydney who have day jobs (non-car related), but they have a hobby where they run a YouTube channel where they fix up second hand cars. They have three and a half million subscribers, they typically get around half a million views an episode, but there are episodes where they’ve had around 11 million views. They’ve had over 800,000,000 views across their two channels over the 12 years they’ve been running. It’s estimated they generate around $500,000 a year in advertising revenue from YouTube (not bad for a hobby, huh?). Obviously YouTube get their cut, but the point is that they provide a much cheaper way of putting company brand names in front of eyeballs, compared to what something like an AFL coverage does.

If you’ve an advertiser, do you spend big dollars on an AFL half time ad break? Or do you spend more modest dollars on YouTube? YouTube (and other social media) also offer the advantage of having targeted advertising by age group, gender, location demographic, etc.

Here’s one of their old iconic episodes with Moog and Marty below (8.4 million views) …




To swing back around to your question about who is big specifically in footy? AFL is probably a bit of a ‘pay to play’ environment, the broadcasters pay big dollars, so it’s probably not so easy to get access. At the other end of the scale you have ‘LJ’, an 11 year old kid from Adelaide who has interviewed everybody from Gold Coast President Tony Cochrane to Warwick Capper to Rory Sloane. He’s got interviews up with three of our lads pre draft (McCrae, Ginnivan and Poulter) but one of the most charming ones is this one below with our AFLW player Sharni Leighton (Norder) . Check it out, who do you reckon gets the best out of their interviewee, this kid ‘LJ’, or Robbo? This vid has only got 130 views, but the kid clearly loves what he does and he gets the best out of his interviewees. He’s made over 250 videos so far and I reckon if he keeps it up he’ll be a household name one day.

 

[sr36]

my point is that he says one thing and then pumps up a player unrealistically..... if he's going to get sucked into backslapping and pumping up players before they actually achieve anything then we are wading in the same crap we've been wading in for last 60 years.

So the question is, is he feeling insecure and catering to the fans who want to hear that daicos will be the next ablett.... or is he pumping up the vision because he wants to make president...

there's a lot of good that can come from the non-hollywood approach....but only if they do it when the going gets tough. I recognise that the current board is under pressure and it might settle down more after the AGM.

As for the footy director being the face of the board, I thought that's why we have a president.

I watched about a third of it and thought, 'Jeez Liccas disappointingly unimpressive.' before turning it off. Just a string of often contradictory clichés.

 

[Markfs]

I watched about a third of it and thought, 'Jeez Liccas disappointingly unimpressive.' before turning it off. Just a string of often contradictory clichés.

i didnt watch a lot. He did say some good things (for me) but I heard a lot of electioneering. The worry for me is that the board has given him a lot of authority over the footy side and he is feeling the power and wants to use it. Maybe i should watch the bits in the middle before i say that. The good thing is that he has at least had some experience with what it takes to be a successful footy team, and isnt relying on his experience as a company liquidator or media mogul. I would prefer him to play a major part in determining the new coach, to having a corporate president make the call, as Ive seen others want.

 

[Carringbush2010]

There’s just gotta be photos out there with Helloise and probably even Alex in Carlton garb, and yet none of that received anything like the blowback (*) that O’Donnell has copped.

Probably coz it's not publicly known, not like Bridie's appointment is publicly known anyway. I didn't know about that (Waizlitz) until you mentioned it TBH.

 

[MagpieJoel]

Did it happen though?

It literally says he had already put in $5m to that point.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Probably coz it's not publicly known, not like Bridie's appointment is publicly known anyway. I didn't know about that (Waizlitz) until you mentioned it TBH.

I wasn’t following that stuff closely at the time, so my knowledge of it is hazy, posters like MarkT2 will know more …

… but it was publicly known. The club had to go through a process with the voting members to get him onto the board.