Pavlich's future

[greatgatsby]

I actually think the club's recruited this last draft with a plan for Fyfe to be our next kpf or back up for Pav. If Blakely & Weller come up gangbusters like we're expecting, I don't see any reason for Pav to retire any time soon. Let him play till he's ready. He's still our best option

Been meaning to post on this subject. Yep, believe the Weller & Blakely drafting - which btw looks good so far - is about Fyfe going to CHF, perhaps as early as next year. RTB's recent comments that "Fyfe doesn't [yet] want to play at CHF" and mentioning that Alex Pearce might fill in for Luke in the second half of this year give us a pretty good idea of the club's future KPP plans.

 

[Allikat]

Been meaning to post on this subject. Yep, believe the Weller & Blakely drafting - which btw looks good so far - is about Fyfe going to CHF, perhaps as early as next year. RTB's recent comments that "Fyfe doesn't [yet] want to play at CHF" and mentioning that Alex Pearce might fill in for Luke in the second half of this year give us a pretty good idea of the club's future KPP plans.

Exactly and honestly, it has me excited for the future of the club. Sure Fyfe is the best midfielder in the competition, and is so so soooo damaging there, but if we can get a decent replacement for him, Fyfe could be a dangerous forward

 

[Bucking Bronco]

Been meaning to post on this subject. Yep, believe the Weller & Blakely drafting - which btw looks good so far - is about Fyfe going to CHF, perhaps as early as next year. RTB's recent comments that "Fyfe doesn't [yet] want to play at CHF" and mentioning that Alex Pearce might fill in for Luke in the second half of this year give us a pretty good idea of the club's future KPP plans.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul... Fyfe is a Brownlow-winning calibre midfielder and would be a 40 goal a year key-forward at best. He's still going to kick 25-30 goals a year playing through the midfield due to his ability to drift forward and exploit his smaller opponent. If he plays as a permanent CHF he won't be afforded this luxury as he will be opposed to a genuine key-defender with genuine defensive capabilities at all times.

The team wouldn't be any better off by having him down there. It would be more beneficial to plonk a tall player there - like Apeness - who can provide a contest and bring the ball to ground and allow Fyfe to play through the midfield and do what he does best.

 

[greatgatsby]

Robbing Peter to pay Paul... Fyfe is a Brownlow-winning calibre midfielder and would be a 40 goal a year key-forward at best. He's still going to kick 25-30 goals a year playing through the midfield due to his ability to drift forward and exploit his smaller opponent. If he plays as a permanent CHF he won't be afforded this luxury as he will be opposed to a genuine key-defender with genuine defensive capabilities at all times.

The team wouldn't be any better off by having him down there. It would be more beneficial to plonk a tall player there - like Apeness - who can provide a contest and bring the ball to ground and allow Fyfe to play through the midfield and do what he does best.

Have to disagree. Dominant CHFs help you win premierships. To pick up your analogy, in any AFL year there are 30 elite midfielders playing Paul, including plenty who play for rubbish sides with no key forwards; while the number of Peters ... you can count them on one hand. Let's pay Peter, he's worth more.

 

[beetz]

Not robbing Peter to pay Paul when your midfield boasts Mundy, Barlow, Hill, Neale et al and potentially Crozier, Blakely, Weller, Walters etc.

At least not for 2015 anyway.

 

[Nickos66]

If we can still maintain a level of midfield dominance with the likes of the names listed above ^, it'd be a waste not to try and capitalise on his height and marking attributes slightly closer to goal.

 

[FUS_RO_DAH]

Not robbing Peter to pay Paul when your midfield boasts Mundy, Barlow, Hill, Neale et al and potentially Crozier, Blakely, Weller, Walters etc.

This. Not to mention Mzungu, Pearce x2, Sutcliffe, Sheridan and the like.

Fyfe at CHF excites me

 

[Halfbaked]

Robbing Peter to pay Paul... Fyfe is a Brownlow-winning calibre midfielder and would be a 40 goal a year key-forward at best. He's still going to kick 25-30 goals a year playing through the midfield due to his ability to drift forward and exploit his smaller opponent. If he plays as a permanent CHF he won't be afforded this luxury as he will be opposed to a genuine key-defender with genuine defensive capabilities at all times.

The team wouldn't be any better off by having him down there. It would be more beneficial to plonk a tall player there - like Apeness - who can provide a contest and bring the ball to ground and allow Fyfe to play through the midfield and do what he does best.

While agree with most of what you said, after last year I do think a Brownlow is very good way to judge an A+ Player anymore ( if ever was ).

 

[youmewe]

Have to disagree. Dominant CHFs help you win premierships. To pick up your analogy, in any AFL year there are 30 elite midfielders playing Paul, including plenty who play for rubbish sides with no key forwards; while the number of Peters ... you can count them on one hand. Let's pay Peter, he's worth more.

CHF’s (and FF’s) win you premierships only if they are supplied by elite midfields.


Think Ablett, Bartel and co. feeding Mooney and Hawkins.


Think Voss, Black, Akermanis and co. feeding Brown and Lynch.


If you can bear it, think Judd, Cousins and Kerr feeding no one in particular.


If you’re old enough, think D. Jarman, Platten and Buckenara feeding Brereton and Dunstall.


Remember Lockett standing, forlornly, ankle deep in the Moorabbin mud.


Remember Pav and Modra wishing Clive and Shauny Mac would kick the ball somewhere in their area code.


Our midfield is elite at present. If you remove Fyfe (playing forward) and Mundy (age) it ceases to be so, Hill notwithstanding. Barlow, Mzungu and Neale are relentless tradesmen rather than elite. Blakely and Weller are yet to debut and years away from being elite.

 

[greatgatsby]

CHF’s (and FF’s) win you premierships only if they are supplied by elite midfields.


Think Ablett, Bartel and co. feeding Mooney and Hawkins.


Think Voss, Black, Akermanis and co. feeding Brown and Lynch.


If you can bear it, think Judd, Cousins and Kerr feeding no one in particular.


If you’re old enough, think D. Jarman, Platten and Buckenara feeding Brereton and Dunstall.


Remember Lockett standing, forlornly, ankle deep in the Moorabbin mud.


Remember Pav and Modra wishing Clive and Shauny Mac would kick the ball somewhere in their area code.


Our midfield is elite at present. If you remove Fyfe (playing forward) and Mundy (age) it ceases to be so, Hill notwithstanding. Barlow, Mzungu and Neale are relentless tradesmen rather than elite. Blakely and Weller are yet to debut and years away from being elite.

It's a good argument (btw I am old enough to think Brereton and Dunstall!!). I don't think your extreme cases - Lockett with no midfield and Judd, Cousins, Kerr with no key forwards - are relevant to our circumstances. It's a question of balance I suppose, and I think of Fyfe in terms of Carey and Hird, not Mooney and Hawkins!!

 

[Bucking Bronco]

Have to disagree. Dominant CHFs help you win premierships. To pick up your analogy, in any AFL year there are 30 elite midfielders playing Paul, including plenty who play for rubbish sides with no key forwards; while the number of Peters ... you can count them on one hand. Let's pay Peter, he's worth more.

Yeah, there might be 30 A-grade midfielders in the comp but barely any of them are as good as Fyfe. He is easily a top 5 midfielder of the competition.

As a forward he will never get anywhere near to being a top 5 key-forward of the competition. Dangerfield maintains the same goal average as a midfielder as he did as forward. Fyfe will be very similar. These guys just beat up on their opponents who are way out of their depth when they get dragged forward. Dangerfield did it to Crowley a few years ago and booted 3 goals on him; he would never have gotten away with it on McPharlin, for example.

They have the aptitude to play as a forward which is great, but it is accentuated due to them being matched up against someone who is inept at defending aerial contests. Once you replace the tagger with a competent defender who is the same size as them, good in the air and not an undersized dwarf - things will get a lot tougher.

Footy is won and lost in the midfield. Keep him there and let him to continue to perfect his forward game. He has the potential to kick 25-30 goals a year and average 26+ possies a game. His output and benefit to the team as a midfielder is always going to outweigh what he can produce as a forward. As a forward the opposition will be able to contain him a lot easier; as a midfielder he is pretty much impossible to tag and contain as he is a contested ball winning machine and he can just destroy his opponent by drifting forward and out-marking them with ease. He is always going to be a lot more damaging as a midfielder, he is like the anti-Pavlich.

Pavlich was never that great as a midfielder, he only ever had one season where he averaged over 20 touches a game when he was playing there. Fyfe is the opposite, he has shown that he is absolutely elite as a midfielder by averaging just under 26 disposals a game since he moved out of the forwardline is his debut season. He is not the reincarnation of Pavlich and he is not capable of emulating what Pav did to that level, his game is suited to being a midfielder and part-time forward, not the reverse.

 

[Kram]

Games of footy, especially big ones like finals are won and lost in the midfield. Pulling a star like Fyfe out for more than maybe a pinch hit on occasion up forward is laughable.

 

[youmewe]

It's a good argument (btw I am old enough to think Brereton and Dunstall!!). I don't think your extreme cases - Lockett with no midfield and Judd, Cousins, Kerr with no key forwards - are relevant to our circumstances. It's a question of balance I suppose, and I think of Fyfe in terms of Carey and Hird, not Mooney and Hawkins!!

I agree. My point is that elite midfielders make moderate forwards look good. History is littered with elite forwards who had no midfield quality in support.

Whilst he has yet to prove anything, young Boyd at WB is in for a very lean year now that Liberatore is injured and obviously Griffen and Cooney have left the club.

 

[Righteo]

Fyfe gets most of his goals from taking his midfield opponent deep forward and exploiting them for height and strength, we don't even know how he'd go matched up on a genuine key defender. I don't understand why people think he'd automatically be some great key forward.

Think Bucking Bronco comprehensively nailed it.

 

[Miltz]

It depends on a few variables...

1. If we will the flag, I think he is a good chance along with Mcpharlin and Crowley to retire
2. The development of Apeness, Tabener, Hannath
3. The development of Clarke, fitness of Griff (allow Sandi to play forward)
4. The development of our young mids and ability of our other mids to release Fyfe
5. The outcomes of the talks after the game with Jesse Hogan to convince him to do Tom Boyd

Either way if he feels he still has the passion, the fitness and the skill...and wants to play on...he plays on. True champions know when to call it a day - they put the club first.

 

[Freo]

Watching Pav run off to the bench a few times in 2013, I thought he was cooked then. His performances last year were surprisingly good. He was a very good player for us.
Watching him train this preseason, He is fit as a fiddle and set for a pretty good year IMHO.
I don't believe in retiring future hall of fame champions early, besides he really is still a very good player. I reckon he should be given the chance to retire when he is good and ready, that's the way you respect a champion of the club who has served FFC like no other.

 

[ImperialPurple]

 

[clogged]

Until the heat death of the universe apparently.

 

[yyou]

the OP needs to add the option: when the great man chooses (which won't be too long as he is a champion player & champion person)
wish he was one of ours

 

[free at last]

Let's face it,Fyfe is going to be a once in a generation ruck rover. I doubt he'll become as dominant playing CHF as he is at playing midfield in the modern game.

I'm confident fyfe will continue to evolve his midfield role where he'll be way more deadly playing midfield compared to lining up as a permanent CHF.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Just ask Coulda as he is the man with the inside word on all things Freo.

 

[Lost_Deputy]

"I can see clearly now that Mayne has gone.

Only Apes and Tabs in my way."

2016 for mine

 

[pokerspiv]

How were Freo lining up forward in 2013 when Pav missed most of the season?

We had the lowest scoring tally in the comp.

 

[youmewe]

We had the lowest scoring tally in the comp.

Actually we finished 12th (2035 points) at the end of the 2013 H&A season.


We were the lowest scoring of all top 8 teams that year.


2035 points still represents our second best haul over the past seven years.


We have averaged 100+ points / game (ppg) only once in our 20 year history (102.4 in 2007. We finished 11th that year, missing the top 8 by 2 games + percentage).


As a comparison:

Sydney have averaged 100.9 ppg over the past three H&A seasons.

Geelong averaged 100+ ppg every season from 2007-13 inclusive.

Hawthorn have averaged 100+ ppg for 5 of the past 7 seasons.

From 2011-14 they scored 10015 H&A points at an average of 113.8 per game. Show-offs.

 

[FUS_RO_DAH]

I know how frustrated I am that Pav never played the majority of his career as an elite forward to be a stopgap as a reasonable midfielder. Imagine the numbers he could have!
Suppose Fyfe moves to CHF, is he being robbed of his best years in the middle? Would he be sacrificing a possible Brownlow or two for an extra goal or two a game? Food for thought.