Paying back the 500 million dollars

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Kwality

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are you saying the AFL can't make money on 4 games a week at Docklands yet Geelong can make close to $1m on a fortnightly game, or the MCG guarantees its tenents 100K every game.

not sure how this assumption that the costs of Docklands are so much higher than other stadiums esp. with how many games are played there
The AFL may not be able to make money on Docklands yes. They borrowed $180 mil when they got the stadium for $1 or so we are told.
The AFL are rolling in money or so we are told.
The AFL ran at a loss a few years back because they spent more money than they earned, thats a fact.

It stands alone as does the G, as does Geelong.

Compare the cost of owning a Ferrari & a Fiat 500, they are substantially different, same manufacturer.

Sad to say but its not only cost to open the venue, its who gets the advertising, the pourage rights etc, and whether your club sells seated memberships. Essendon sell more than the other tenants, thats why they were chased by the stadium owners originally (& why some clubs were not chased).
 

NoobPie

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I see you are someone who cannot acknowledge that you got something wrong, and instead tries to find another dumb argument to compensate. Have a great day!
No worries, you run along and lure another poor poster in with a silly statement and then project your foolishness on to them
 

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Kwality

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Do you really think they aren't?

Previous owners were clearly making money, clubs aren't doing any better from the new arrangements (going by their annual reports), so the money must be going somewhere....
I really dont know.
Its not as if we can line up the deals for any meaningful comparison. Attendance numbers are our measure, not a dollar value to be seen.
I dont know what flex is used in stadiums, a 25,000 crowd at Docklands v a sell out 50k, are all facilities opened.

Where is the money going, I cant answer that either.

What I can tell you is, the answer is one thing we should know.
 

Kwality

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Do you really think they aren't?

Previous owners were clearly making money, clubs aren't doing any better from the new arrangements (going by their annual reports), so the money must be going somewhere....
The answers are in AFL Stadia Pty Ltd & i'm battling to get in there, probably me, meanwhile I missed this a fortnight back:

Ah that GF deal in action !!!

Looks like the AFL do indeed make a quid at Docklands, one to you ;) .....double or nothing, the AFL get credit for assisting the post covid recovery before Mr V'L.:'(
 

Dazb86

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Kwality

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and then we get this
Dont get fooled into getting away from the stadium deal.
The AFL are 100% in control at Docklands - the landlord at the MCG has set a precedent, surely the landlord at Docklands can meet that.

'Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Hawthorn, Melbourne and Richmond will receive home game payments of between $150,000 and $200,000 this year, reports Nine.'

The AFL dont rate fair, its the 'bleedin obvious', getting embarassing surely. Hang in their Mann ..
 

telsor

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Dont get fooled into getting away from the stadium deal.
The AFL are 100% in control at Docklands - the landlord at the MCG has set a precedent, surely the landlord at Docklands can meet that.

'Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Hawthorn, Melbourne and Richmond will receive home game payments of between $150,000 and $200,000 this year, reports Nine.'

The AFL dont rate fair, its the 'bleedin obvious', getting embarassing surely. Hang in their Mann ..
As the article says.

"The AFL is now under pressure to work out the same deal for the Marvel Stadium clubs ... "
 

Kwality

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As the article says.

"The AFL is now under pressure to work out the same deal for the Marvel Stadium clubs ... "
As the OP would have read. My comments were about keeping his eye on the ball.

I dont have to, MannMan has skin in the game. I chose not to toss in the role of the GF deal in this ....
 

Rob

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Dont get fooled into getting away from the stadium deal.
The AFL are 100% in control at Docklands - the landlord at the MCG has set a precedent, surely the landlord at Docklands can meet that.

'Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Hawthorn, Melbourne and Richmond will receive home game payments of between $150,000 and $200,000 this year, reports Nine.'

The AFL dont rate fair, its the 'bleedin obvious', getting embarassing surely. Hang in their Mann ..
To be fair, MCG tenants lose almost half the seats - including most of the best ones - to MCG and AFL members. Dockalnds tenants lose about 7000 (Medallion club and a far smaller AFL members area).

My gripe with it all is that the MCG tenant clubs are basically cashing in (at least in part) because of the AFL guaranteeing the grand final for the rest of the millennium.
 

Linda_Lovelace

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The problem for the AFL is it has too many loss making ventures that require massive financial support:

1. GWS and the SUNS, suck down $40 to $50m a year, obviously gone down now but still a huge drain
2. The untouchable AFLW, make nothing, is a contra on the TV deal, ie a negative, crowds get in for free, outside of some cheap sponsorship and Govt money (good luck with that going forward) it is a huge drain and cannot be touched.
3. Other clubs in trouble, not naming any but there are always 2 - 4 requiring additional support, its just part of the cycle.
4. Social programs, both the AFL and clubs spend a lot of money on non football related matters, once again hard to walk away from as it will be socially difficult.
5. Spending on stadiums, has been largely funded by State Govts with their balance sheets stretched, AFL will have to fund or accept them declining.
6. Sponsorship, less game time = less time for ads, not only is TV revenue impacting but so are clubs sponsorship, ground signage etc. All linked to AFL and club revenue. And god forbid if you are sponsored by an airline.

Whilst the loss of TV revenue is a key focus, the loss of crowds is nearly as big. It is what has really set the AFL apart from the NRL and now its gone. It will come back but don't expect Dan Andrews to make it easy, although maybe the AFL arrange a 'protest' that seems to be OK.

Fact is the AFL does not have free money, it will be secured over Docklands (remember they were going to spend a fortune on a refurb) which has no revenue coming in. The AFL spent like drunken soldiers, worked on the basis of an ever increasing revenue stream from TV rights and crowds and got caught with their pants down. They did not learn from the GFC, unlike most well run Australian companies, so now everyone gets to pay.

The biggest threat to the AFL is the players break ranks. They have a very short time in the game, they are being asked to take massive pay cuts and if the AFL expects them to fund their causes etc an go without then it could get ugly. One thing Paul Keating got right, is always back self interest. Right now the TV stations are getting pay back on the AFL and will drive the price down (FFS what genius cut the length of the game), others will join in.

This is what happens when you don't plan for threats.
 

NoobPie

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The problem for the AFL is it has too many loss making ventures that require massive financial support:

1. GWS and the SUNS, suck down $40 to $50m a year, obviously gone down now but still a huge drain
2. The untouchable AFLW, make nothing, is a contra on the TV deal, ie a negative, crowds get in for free, outside of some cheap sponsorship and Govt money (good luck with that going forward) it is a huge drain and cannot be touched.
3. Other clubs in trouble, not naming any but there are always 2 - 4 requiring additional support, its just part of the cycle.
4. Social programs, both the AFL and clubs spend a lot of money on non football related matters, once again hard to walk away from as it will be socially difficult.
5. Spending on stadiums, has been largely funded by State Govts with their balance sheets stretched, AFL will have to fund or accept them declining.
6. Sponsorship, less game time = less time for ads, not only is TV revenue impacting but so are clubs sponsorship, ground signage etc. All linked to AFL and club revenue. And god forbid if you are sponsored by an airline.

Whilst the loss of TV revenue is a key focus, the loss of crowds is nearly as big. It is what has really set the AFL apart from the NRL and now its gone. It will come back but don't expect Dan Andrews to make it easy, although maybe the AFL arrange a 'protest' that seems to be OK.

Fact is the AFL does not have free money, it will be secured over Docklands (remember they were going to spend a fortune on a refurb) which has no revenue coming in. The AFL spent like drunken soldiers, worked on the basis of an ever increasing revenue stream from TV rights and crowds and got caught with their pants down. They did not learn from the GFC, unlike most well run Australian companies, so now everyone gets to pay.

The biggest threat to the AFL is the players break ranks. They have a very short time in the game, they are being asked to take massive pay cuts and if the AFL expects them to fund their causes etc an go without then it could get ugly. One thing Paul Keating got right, is always back self interest. Right now the TV stations are getting pay back on the AFL and will drive the price down (FFS what genius cut the length of the game), others will join in.

This is what happens when you don't plan for threats.
What a load of nonsense

The AFL is in a far better position than every other sport in the country precisely because it (and many of its clubs) had developed an asset base and contingency fund

The AFL is not going to get rid of the expansion clubs and the AFLW and it doesn't need to. The biggest cut the AFL is making is the through a large reduction in the football department soft cap. A $3m reduction in the soft cap equates to $54M a year which is pretty close to the entirety of what the AFL spends on GC, GWS and the AFLW.

The AFL's stadia is well good enough for a long time and pretty much every club either has, or has locked in commitments to have, state of the art training bases.

The renegotiated TV deal by all reports will be far less of a hair cut than what the NRL has just copped.

Every sign is that the AFL, while it is taking a substantial hit from this seasons shrunk season and potentially no crowds at all, is going to emerge from this with a greater gap between it and all other sports than it went in with.
 

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Kwality

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The biggest threat to the AFL is the players break ranks.
Like cricket, like NRL, like the A-League?
players-reject-cricket-australia-cash-strapped-assertions/12322348?section=sport

Alistair Nicholson runs the cricket players ( he played for the Demons) , Paul Marsh came from cricket to the AFL Players Association.

Good observation Linda, trust you arent meeting your source ;) in an underground car park.
 

Rich01

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Dont get fooled into getting away from the stadium deal.
The AFL are 100% in control at Docklands - the landlord at the MCG has set a precedent, surely the landlord at Docklands can meet that.

'Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Hawthorn, Melbourne and Richmond will receive home game payments of between $150,000 and $200,000 this year, reports Nine.'

The AFL dont rate fair, its the 'bleedin obvious', getting embarassing surely. Hang in their Mann ..
I wouldn’t say unfair. Demand the same from Optus stadium.
 

Kwality

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seems like they have it "under control"?
The devil is in the detail, e.g have any of the players torn up their current contracts?
 

Kwality

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Comment from Mark Ricuitto

'At Adelaide if we do everything right this year we’re going to lose $10 million, and we’ve got people stood down throughout the footy department and in any footy club it’s bloody hard times ....'
 

Kwality

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What a load of nonsense

The AFL is in a far better position than every other sport in the country precisely because it (and many of its clubs) had developed an asset base and contingency fund

The AFL is not going to get rid of the expansion clubs and the AFLW and it doesn't need to. The biggest cut the AFL is making is the through a large reduction in the football department soft cap. A $3m reduction in the soft cap equates to $54M a year which is pretty close to the entirety of what the AFL spends on GC, GWS and the AFLW.

The AFL's stadia is well good enough for a long time and pretty much every club either has, or has locked in commitments to have, state of the art training bases.

The renegotiated TV deal by all reports will be far less of a hair cut than what the NRL has just copped.

Every sign is that the AFL, while it is taking a substantial hit from this seasons shrunk season and potentially no crowds at all, is going to emerge from this with a greater gap between it and all other sports than it went in with.
Strang (to me) comment in The Aus (Monday) in an article on the media contract renewal negotiations:
The AFL’s debt levels are also likely to come into play in the final negotiations, as it is yet unclear to broadcasters how much the AFL has had to draw down on its $600m line of credit from banks.

 

RUNVS

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For now the AFL and NRL are acting like everything is 100% again, but I am very curious to see how long the money lasts if crowds don't come back anytime soon. I wonder how many months it will be until both codes start getting worried about their finances again. Right now both codes feel like they are fine as they just bought a new credit card to pay off their previous credit card that was maxed out.
 

Kwality

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For now the AFL and NRL are acting like everything is 100% again, but I am very curious to see how long the money lasts if crowds don't come back anytime soon. I wonder how many months it will be until both codes start getting worried about their finances again. Right now both codes feel like they are fine as they just bought a new credit card to pay off their previous credit card that was maxed out.
I think Gil is 'steady as she goes', calm not overconfident, they have bought time. Its when the hard decisions are met, the staff move from jobkeeper to the unemployment lines.
As Gil said the other day the first run through on the loss to the game was $1billion +. When crowds come back is a better scenario than the current model. If its the 2022 scenario ....

Cant work out the other codes, whats spin? I do know there are successful business man in clubland, but whether that makes any difference who knows.
 

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