PC Pc Gaming/building thread

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Total Power

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Thoughts on Ryzen5 3600? i can get this here in Europe for just under 200 Euros!!! that is dirt cheap and it it's clearly better than the 2700x which costs close to 400 euros here.


 

dwwaino

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Thoughts on Ryzen5 3600? i can get this here in Europe for just under 200 Euros!!! that is dirt cheap and it it's clearly better than the 2700x which costs close to 400 euros here.


Looking like the sweet spot. Pre-launch I thought the 3800x would be the odd one out but I watched this just yesterday where GN have the 3700x as the awkward one, preferring to go with the 3600x.

 

Total Power

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Looking like the sweet spot. Pre-launch I thought the 3800x would be the odd one out but I watched this just yesterday where GN have the 3700x as the awkward one, preferring to go with the 3600x.

That is incredible value for less than 200 Euros!!! from what i see the difference between 9900k and 3600 is about 10 percent, while 9900k costs about 2.5 times as much. I will gladly buy the 3600 with a 5700xt which i believe with the optimised drivers will beat 2070 super in a month or two.
 

dav3

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The motherboards for these things just seem to be all over the shop at the moment. X570 prices are insane, BIOS issues seem to be common for the B450s to the point where manufacturers are looking at rereleasing them with bigger BIOS chips (eg. the MSI Tomahawk MAX model that just popped up). I haven't seen much posted for or against the X470 line of boards, which I'd assume means they're ok.

If I pull the trigger I'm thinking the 3700X, MSI X470 Pro Carbon, 2x8GB 3200 C16 and a NVMe SSD, I'm just not sure I'm completely sold on the 3000s in older boards just yet.
 

drd23

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he motherboards for these things just seem to be all over the shop at the moment. X570 prices are insane, BIOS issues seem to be common for the B450s to the point where manufacturers are looking at rereleasing them with bigger BIOS chips (eg. the MSI Tomahawk MAX model that just popped up). I haven't seen much posted for or against the X470 line of boards, which I'd assume means they're ok.
I wouldn't assume that the X470 is exempt from the issues that older boards may have.

In his video on whether Ryzen 3000 works on B350 motherboards, Steve from HUB was talking about the fact that the X570 boards needs 32Mb of chipset memory is part of the reason why they are more expensive (and need active cooling) and that MB manufacturers are going to release "Lite" BIOS versions to those boards with only 16Mb of chipset memory to get around it.

He also tested the MSI B450 Tomahawk against the X570 Creation in his Day 1 review and there was a negligible difference in performance between the two
 

dav3

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I knew that'd be the only thing you'd latch on to from my post.
Sad.
Put it this way, if pre-release "repected" streamers were claiming 5ghz Intel chips, and then when proven wrong 5ghz overclocks, and that didn't prove correct..... if backward compatibility on older boards was promised, and there were BIOS issues to the point features were being cut and rereleases were imminent....... if Intel launched promoting their chips like this

but coming up with this in reality

.... and if Intel were being promoted as being substantially cheaper than the competition, followed by the release of entry level boards in the $300-$400 range....... you'd be crucifying them right now.

You're right about this release being a game changer, but only to the point that AMD have pulled level with Intel. Hopefully this is the start of a very long war, but right now unless your PC runs Cinebench tests 24/7 while you zip up a lot of really big files, things are pretty even.
 

dav3

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I wouldn't assume that the X470 is exempt from the issues that older boards may have.

In his video on whether Ryzen 3000 works on B350 motherboards, Steve from HUB was talking about the fact that the X570 boards needs 32Mb of chipset memory is part of the reason why they are more expensive (and need active cooling) and that MB manufacturers are going to release "Lite" BIOS versions to those boards with only 16Mb of chipset memory to get around it.

He also tested the MSI B450 Tomahawk against the X570 Creation in his Day 1 review and there was a negligible difference in performance between the two
That assumption was purely based on the theory that people generally only post about things when there's an issue with them, if you're not hearing about problems they usually aren't there.

The 32MB BIOS chip and active cooling aren't what's pumping up the cost of X570, the "lite" BIOSes are already around and getting regularly updated as betas, but there still seems to be a lot of issues, including actually getting them to upgrade successfully. A company like MSI wouldn't be releasing a MAX range of boards to counter the issue if there weren't issues.

I know performance isn't an issue between the new and old boards, my concern right now is basic functionality, and that's why I'm holding off right now.
 

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happy_eagle

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Thanks to the feedback in this thread, I am now determined to build my own machine rather than buy a stock system. This is what I have identified thus far (bear in mind I am not building a crazy machine here, and want to keep everything under $1500).

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 (the new 3600 is very tempting but probably out of budget)
GPU: GTX 1660/1660 ti (Trying to decide if the ti is worth the extra $70. Once again the 2060 would be ideal but out of budget)
Motherboard: Gigabyte B450 Aorus (don't know a tonne about Motherboards, this seemed to have good reviews)
RAM: 16GB (2x8) DDR4 3000mhz (Corsair Vengeance)
SDD: Intel 660P 1TB M.2
HDD: Seagate 2TB Barracuda (Mainly for Media Storage)
Case: Cooler Master Lite 3.1 (this is sitting under a desk so size is a requirement, and aesthetics less of a concern)
PSU: EVGA SuperNova G3 Gold+ 550W

All of this will probably land around the $1300 mark which I am comfortable with. Will also likely add on costs for a Wireless Adapter (flexibility), Windows 10 and maybe a new monitor.
 
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The motherboards for these things just seem to be all over the shop at the moment. X570 prices are insane, BIOS issues seem to be common for the B450s to the point where manufacturers are looking at rereleasing them with bigger BIOS chips (eg. the MSI Tomahawk MAX model that just popped up). I haven't seen much posted for or against the X470 line of boards, which I'd assume means they're ok.

If I pull the trigger I'm thinking the 3700X, MSI X470 Pro Carbon, 2x8GB 3200 C16 and a NVMe SSD, I'm just not sure I'm completely sold on the 3000s in older boards just yet.
Have to agree with this.
I'm considering one of the cheaper X570 boards with an eye on compatibility to the next Zen 3 and Zen 4 chips (Ryzen 4000/5000 series)

Although Asus has just announced they will support Pcie 4.0 on 400 series motherboards..
 

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Put it this way, if pre-release "repected" streamers were claiming 5ghz Intel chips, and then when proven wrong 5ghz overclocks, and that didn't prove correct..... if backward compatibility on older boards was promised, and there were BIOS issues to the point features were being cut and rereleases were imminent....... if Intel launched promoting their chips like this

but coming up with this in reality

.... and if Intel were being promoted as being substantially cheaper than the competition, followed by the release of entry level boards in the $300-$400 range....... you'd be crucifying them right now.

You're right about this release being a game changer, but only to the point that AMD have pulled level with Intel. Hopefully this is the start of a very long war, but right now unless your PC runs Cinebench tests 24/7 while you zip up a lot of really big files, things are pretty even.
Not sure if you're quoting the right post since my post was purely Navi 5700XT based.

Anyway I'm not claiming a complete victory as that is clearly not the case.

I do however take umbrage when 2080ti at 720p or 1080p benchmarks are used to point out the difference. I think they're irrelevant to just about 100% of the pc gaming population. I understand the reasoning but the results are massively misconstrued.
Fact of the matter is the $315 Ryzen 3600 gives at least 90% of the experience that the $765 9900K provides and when it's paired with just about any graphics cards outside of the 1%er 2080ti the advantage that Intel provides diminishes greatly, to the point of parity.

I do admit the high end 3900X is disappointing from a gaming pov, but for a mate of mine who is a freelance graphic and VFX editor it's a whole other story...

708334
 

dwwaino

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Have 9900k prices been revised in the past week? I swear when the 3900x first dropped and I saw the gaming benches I was thinking why spend all that cash on a 3900x for headroom and wank factor when the 9900k was only about $50 more expensive (and factor in the rather affordable z390 boards), or you could destroy the 9900k in productivity with a 3700x and for over $200 less.

I checked today to make a point on something and noticed the 9900k at $765 which is cheaper than the 3900x. Another note is in 2017 I paid about $450 for my 8700k on day one. The like for like in core/thread count seems to be the 3600x and that's about $389. That's fantastic imo. 3700x is a considerable jump and on the same benches my 8700k is still quite competitive, often top 5 in all of the gaming benches. Value in the top end for both sides seems to be waaaayy blown out. If I didn't own a system and were building something between high and mid today I'd go 3600x hands down. Extreme high end is totally disappointing though. 9900k was always overpriced and 3900x for gaming for me would be an unnecessary sideways move.

Bring on the 3950x, surely it's a monster. These companies don't hear about news like we do, they have massive R&D spending and always know what each other are up to. It's why NVIDIA sat on Super, and probably why AMD are launching 3950x later. I wouldn't be surprised if AMD are expecting 10th gen Intel info in the next few months (whether it's a strategic leak or official) and the 3950x is there to counter it. Oooooorrrr AMD are anticipating a 10-15% price drop in 9th gen Intel and releasing the 3950x slightly more expensive than the 3900x and reducing the price of the 3000 line to counter.
 

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A few extra points on the Ryzen 5700 and 5700XT.

1. Radeon Image sharpening is waaaayy better that nVidia DLSS so if you believe that DLSS is some kind of additional feature then guess again..


2. Radeon drivers will improve. The RDNA architecture is new but the drivers are still using a GCN instruction set.

3. The 5700XT has 2560 shader cores arranged into 40 Compute units and is running in parity against the 2070 SuperDuper with 2560 Cuda cores.
This shows how much IPC RDNA has picked up. Imagine a 60 CU Navi 5900XT, that will be trading blows with the infamous 2080ti.

4. This ain't no 2 product VEGA launch.
Sapphire has registered the product codes for an including RX 5500 (XT) and RX 5550 (XT) to the RX 5900 (XT) and the RX 5950 (XT). This is ontop of other versions of Navi silicone having drivers spotted in Linux. Could be placeholders, could be product..??
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/sapphire-registers-radeon-rx-55005550-560058005850-and-5900-xt-graphic-cards.html

5. For those game enough to void their 5700XT warranty there is a soft powerplay table mod out that allows the +50% offset to be taken out to +95%.
This puts the 5700XT ahead of the 2070 SuperDuper and within SFA of the much more expensive RTX 2080ti.
708368

 
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Have 9900k prices been revised in the past week? I swear when the 3900x first dropped and I saw the gaming benches I was thinking why spend all that cash on a 3900x for headroom and wank factor when the 9900k was only about $50 more expensive (and factor in the rather affordable z390 boards), or you could destroy the 9900k in productivity with a 3700x and for over $200 less.

I checked today to make a point on something and noticed the 9900k at $765 which is cheaper than the 3900x. Another note is in 2017 I paid about $450 for my 8700k on day one. The like for like in core/thread count seems to be the 3600x and that's about $389. That's fantastic imo. 3700x is a considerable jump and on the same benches my 8700k is still quite competitive, often top 5 in all of the gaming benches. Value in the top end for both sides seems to be waaaayy blown out. If I didn't own a system and were building something between high and mid today I'd go 3600x hands down. Extreme high end is totally disappointing though. 9900k was always overpriced and 3900x for gaming for me would be an unnecessary sideways move.

Bring on the 3950x, surely it's a monster. These companies don't hear about news like we do, they have massive R&D spending and always know what each other are up to. It's why NVIDIA sat on Super, and probably why AMD are launching 3950x later. I wouldn't be surprised if AMD are expecting 10th gen Intel info in the next few months (whether it's a strategic leak or official) and the 3950x is there to counter it. Oooooorrrr AMD are anticipating a 10-15% price drop in 9th gen Intel and releasing the 3950x slightly more expensive than the 3900x and reducing the price of the 3000 line to counter.
Yeah Intel announced a price drop in response to Ryzen 3000.

Your 8700K still kicks ass because games will take forever to leverage more cores.
And yes 3600 / 3600X is the place to be.

The 3950X is 100% being held back to respond to anything Intel announces or releases.
 

dwwaino

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PC Gamer made a good point too that Intel's sheer market share means they can afford 1500 Devs that fly around the world helping devs, ensuring stuff is always well optimised for their platform and they will continue to do so. Same would be for NVIDIA. As AMD's market share grows they can do the same.
 

dav3

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PC Gamer made a good point too that Intel's sheer market share means they can afford 1500 Devs that fly around the world helping devs, ensuring stuff is always well optimised for their platform and they will continue to do so. Same would be for NVIDIA. As AMD's market share grows they can do the same.
Yeah it's the same as Microsoft in the software world, their market dominance helps them a lot. The recent Ryzen/Navi releases will probably been more of a marketing win than anything else, it'll (hopefully) lay the foundation for AMD to even the playing field for the next few years. I don't think they'll take the majority of the market share, but they'll certainly gain a lot of ground.
 

dwwaino

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Yeah it's the same as Microsoft in the software world, their market dominance helps them a lot. The recent Ryzen/Navi releases will probably been more of a marketing win than anything else, it'll (hopefully) lay the foundation for AMD to even the playing field for the next few years. I don't think they'll take the majority of the market share, but they'll certainly gain a lot of ground.
It will take more than a generation or two of wins to make up that sort of ground. I think we'll get a clearer picture later on this year when more reliable Comet Lake info should start dropping if it truly has a Q1 2020 window and that news drop will come around the same time as 3950x. I wonder how they'll gear 10th gen as I don't think they're shipping 10nm until 2021 (for desktops). Rumour is 10 cores and I guess they'll push for the single core speed crown. and with any luck they've got the 14nm process down to a fine enough art for maximum yields and can price themselves more reasonably. They'll probably by fighting Ryzen 4000 by end of next year too. Surely this new arms race will be a win for everyone.
 

dav3

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It will take more than a generation or two of wins to make up that sort of ground. I think we'll get a clearer picture later on this year when more reliable Comet Lake info should start dropping if it truly has a Q1 2020 window and that news drop will come around the same time as 3950x. I wonder how they'll gear 10th gen as I don't think they're shipping 10nm until 2021 (for desktops). Rumour is 10 cores and I guess they'll push for the single core speed crown. and with any luck they've got the 14nm process down to a fine enough art for maximum yields and can price themselves more reasonably. They'll probably by fighting Ryzen 4000 by end of next year too. Surely this new arms race will be a win for everyone.
Allegedly this is how 10th gen will play out.....

Looks like AMD upping core counts is making Intel bring back Hyperthreading for the more mainstream CPUs, which hopefully makes devs (especially game devs) concentrate on utilizing high core counts. It wouldn't surprise me if the next 14mn+++++++++++++++ chip comes out just after CES 2020, and there's probably a bit more they can squeeze out of it, they need to kick the rumour mill into overdrive to negate what AMD has achieved.

Competition is always a win for consumers, it's been a while since it's happened so it'll be fun to sit back and watch them go to war.
 
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