News Pelchen grim on Hawks trade strategy

[flinchfree]

How many had the chance?

Really?
When you play, you have the chance to show that you are an integral part of the future.
You don't have to be a top 10 player in the side, you just have to win your position more often than not.
Can't say any of the players listed (Schoenmakers, Hartung, Langford and O'Rourke) have done so.

 

[threesixpio]

How many had the chance?

Yep - its early days for a bunch

Nothing would make me happier than JOR coming good this year

 

[flinchfree]

Yep - its early days for a bunch

Nothing would make me happier than JOR coming good this year

At the start of next season:

Shoenmakers - 26
Hartung - 22
Langford - 24
Orourke - 23

At what age do you think Clarko will think it's time to put the faith in the next brigade coming through?

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Yep - its early days for a bunch

Nothing would make me happier than JOR coming good this year

His inside outside game is certainly suited to where things are heading....

 

[Matt Stevic]

Is that actually Pelchen posting? If so, there's something cripplingly sad about coming on here and defending yourself on an internet forum.

Yup sure is.

Just like how I'm actually Matt Stevic

 

[Davo23]

Yup sure is.

Just like how I'm actually Matt Stevic

You were good in the 2015 finals, but where were you last year?

Didn't we pay you enough?

 

[Matt Stevic]

You were good in the 2015 finals, but where were you last year?

Didn't we pay you enough?

Switched my support over to the Bulldogs mid season...but now I realise the error of my ways and I'm fit and firing for the Hawks in 2017!

 

[HairyO]

Really?
When you play, you have the chance to show that you are an integral part of the future.

Because every great player had a belter in their 1st game (and in some cases only) game of the year?

 

[flinchfree]

Because every great player had a belter in their 1st game (and in some cases only) game of the year?

You've lost me.
We must be discussing different players.
Lets move on.

 

[HairyO]

You've lost me.
We must be discussing different players.
Lets move on.

It was a discussion on our younger players not stepping up.

My point is most of our younger players have not really had the chance yet. Coming in for 1 game then back to BHH doesnt give them time to shine.

 

[Davo23]

It was a discussion on our younger players not stepping up.

My point is most of our younger players have not really had the chance yet. Coming in for 1 game then back to BHH doesnt give them time to shine.

Absolutely, you really can't judge a player until he's played 50 games or more.

If you had been on BigFooty in 2002-2003 and read the discussions about the 2001 Draft, the players who showed most promise after a handful of games were Xavier Clarke and Ashley Sampi. Where are they now?

Hodgey showed very little until around 2004.

Give them time, lads.

 

[11sjw]

Calling Pelchen a draft guru makes me laugh as much as SEN announcing Wallet as "The List Manager."

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It was a discussion on our younger players not stepping up.

My point is most of our younger players have not really had the chance yet. Coming in for 1 game then back to BHH doesnt give them time to shine.

Apparently, because they've not forced 150+ game 3x premiership players out of the side it means our youth aren't any good.

 

[flinchfree]

Apparently, because they've not forced 150+ game 3x premiership players out of the side it means our youth aren't any good.

Wish you wouldn't change what I was commenting on.

My own personal judgement is not whether they are better than existing players in our team, rather when they do get the chance to play - how well do they do?

Tell me, over the course of Shoe's 7 years on the list, how often did he win his position - forward or back, when he played firsts?
The same for Langers.
JOR's sample is smaller, but again, when he's on the field - does he beat his opponent enough to have won his position.

Hartung has been the best of the bunch, because when he has played well - it's been obvious how good his games were.

 

[HairyO]

Tell me, over the course of Shoe's 7 years on the list, how often did he win his position - forward or back, when he played firsts?

Im sure there is a simple answer but the truth is we dont really know what his role in any given game is.

He has never competed against Roughie for KPF. He has never competed against Gibbo or Lake for KPD.

His role has generally been to fill gaps on our list forward and back and even in the ruck.

Having had numerous injuries its also put him back often.

But anyway, simple answer - he sure as hell owned the 2015 GF...

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wish you wouldn't change what I was commenting on.

I haven't changed anything you've commented on, and to be honest, didn't even read your post.

I'm talking about opposition supporters who are screaming from the rooftops that "Hawforn's yoof is the worst in the league!".

 

[Davo-27]

I haven't changed anything you've commented on, and to be honest, didn't even read your post.

I'm talking about opposition supporters who are screaming from the rooftops that "Hawforn's yoof is the worst in the league!".

Hawthorns Youth isnt the worst in the League, but our youth is not looking good (although the inclusion of O'Meara and T.Mitchell has changed that a bit)

i consider HFC Youth to be 23 and under...

***Tom Mitchell - 65 gms/38gls was the 2nd best player in the Swans finals series behind Josh Kennedy - is basically A-Grade
Hartung - 45gms/22gls has been up and down mostly playing as hbf/wing will get more opportunity to hold onto wing in 2016 - this yr is his chance
***O'Meara - 44gms/27gls been injured, but has shown star potential, at worst will be a solid player
Sicily - 25gms/34gls had a breakout yr at AFL, before that had been very good at VFL, seems likely to make it as a 3rd forward/hff
O'Rourke - 18gms/4gls jury is out, has improved at HFC, but hasnt dominated a game in the midfield, needs to dominate a game at AFL level or will be fringe
O'Brien - 18gms/14gls plays the high marking key forward role with a small frame, doesnt clunk enough marks or kick enough goals
Howe - 15gms/1gl his debut game in 2015 was great, he has had good moments, but too often looks lost and possession isnt great, jury still out on him
Brand 11gms/0gls was nervous in his first game or 2 but since then has actually won his position a few times, im liking him for our FB
Burton 4gms/1gl did decent in his first game forward, but really showed promise in his last 2 games as a defender taking intercept marks
Pittonet
Lovell
Heatherley
Hardwick
Miles
Willsmore
Webster

Green - AFL standard, Yellow - might make it, Red - unlikely to make it

 

[JoondalupJ]

Hawthorn could regret 2016 AFL trade period strategy, says Chris Pelchen

FORMER Hawthorn list manager Chris Pelchen believes his former club’s “high-risk” trade strategy will come back to haunt the Hawks by decade’s end.

The Hawks managed to snare gun Sydney midfielder Tom Mitchell, as well as 2013 Rising Star winner Jaeger O’Meara from the Gold Coast Suns, during the recent AFL trade period, but at the expense of early draft picks.

The Mitchell deal cost Hawthorn its first-round pick this season, then it had to send another 2016 first-round selection — which it acquired off St Kilda — and its future second-round pick to the Suns in exchange for O’Meara. As part of the Saints pick swap deal, the Hawks also traded away their current second-round and future first-round picks.


It means the Hawks will have to wait until Pick 88 for its first selection in November’s national draft, which will see them enter a draft without a top-20 pick for the fifth time in six years.

On top of those pick losses, veteran on-ballers Jordan Lewis and Sam Mitchell also departed, joining Melbourne and West Coast respectively.

Pelchen, who worked in Hawthorn’s list management team for nine years, said the club’s aggressive list strategy could bring long-term pain.

“I have to say it’s a high-risk strategy they’ve gone on to take this year,” Pelchen told Fox Sports News’ AFL Tonight.

“It’s unprecedented and it’s an approach that they’re taking that I’m not really in favour of. I think it’s going to come back to hurt them in three or four years’ time.”

Hawthorn this season missed the AFL Grand Final for the first time since 2011, eliminated in straight-sets after finals losses to Geelong and the Western Bulldogs. Its inability to win contested ball played a major role in those losses, but they’re holes Mitchell and O’Meara have the potential to fill.

Pelchen, who was also St Kilda’s football boss for three-and-a-half years, said Mitchell was “ready to step up” into Hawthorn’s midfield brigade and take on any extra responsibility.

But Pelchen added that he personally wouldn’t have chased O’Meara as hard, despite the on-baller’s strong desire to play for the Hawks in 2017, as there is a still a question mark over his fitness.

“The two on-ballers, they’re both quality players, on the proviso that Jaeger stands up. Otherwise it’s going to be a crash and burn cycle that they go through,” Pelchen said.

“It was a solid (trade period result), but I’m still worried about — if things don’t work out — what is going to happen to their side over the next three or four years. They just don’t have enough quality youngsters coming through.”

Mr Pelchen , you did your job well and now have gone, the word "could" always makes me think, if my name was Donald I COULD be a duck, or I COULD be the president of the USA, with Clarko's strategy and good football thinkers in the club, Hawthorn COULD be premiers next year.
I guess you got some pay, for footy comments,that is fine.
But in ten years the AFL, COULD be very very different , with a bit of luck! Of course in 2027 Hawthorn COULD also be premiers. COULDN'T they????

 

[JoondalupJ]

Hawthorns Youth isnt the worst in the League, but our youth is not looking good (although the inclusion of O'Meara and T.Mitchell has changed that a bit)

i consider HFC Youth to be 23 and under...

***Tom Mitchell - 65 gms/38gls was the 2nd best player in the Swans finals series behind Josh Kennedy - is basically A-Grade
Hartung - 45gms/22gls has been up and down mostly playing as hbf/wing will get more opportunity to hold onto wing in 2016 - this yr is his chance
***O'Meara - 44gms/27gls been injured, but has shown star potential, at worst will be a solid player
Sicily - 25gms/34gls had a breakout yr at AFL, before that had been very good at VFL, seems likely to make it as a 3rd forward/hff
O'Rourke - 18gms/4gls jury is out, has improved at HFC, but hasnt dominated a game in the midfield, needs to dominate a game at AFL level or will be fringe
O'Brien - 18gms/14gls plays the high marking key forward role with a small frame, doesnt clunk enough marks or kick enough goals
Howe - 15gms/1gl his debut game in 2015 was great, he has had good moments, but too often looks lost and possession isnt great, jury still out on him
Brand 11gms/0gls was nervous in his first game or 2 but since then has actually won his position a few times, im liking him for our FB
Burton 4gms/1gl did decent in his first game forward, but really showed promise in his last 2 games as a defender taking intercept marks
Pittonet
Lovell
Heatherley
Hardwick
Miles
Willsmore
Webster

Green - AFL standard, Yellow - might make it, Red - unlikely to make it

Great assessment. I think we have a good future, and I think the little things that you mentioned that weren't quite right with some of those players, will improve with age experience , no worries. I agree too the Hartung , this is his year to shine , used a bit differently and given that chance to operate with the strengths he has. Lots of practice off season and super fitness young man , you will come through!

 

[JedAnderson]

Calling Pelchen a draft guru makes me laugh as much as SEN announcing Wallet as "The List Manager."

Pelchen is a complete tool. Sacked from his last two clubs for that reason!

 

[OzJohnnie]

I golfed with a friend yesterday who casually knows and had seen Brett Ratten during the week. He said Ratten was looking very relaxed. He had asked Ratten if trade week had gone the way they wanted and he said that Brett looked like a kid on Christmas with a grin so big that he couldn't hide it but didn't say anything beyond, "Yeah, it was good."

 

[burner1]

Hawthorns Youth isnt the worst in the League, but our youth is not looking good (although the inclusion of O'Meara and T.Mitchell has changed that a bit)

i consider HFC Youth to be 23 and under...

***Tom Mitchell - 65 gms/38gls was the 2nd best player in the Swans finals series behind Josh Kennedy - is basically A-Grade
Hartung - 45gms/22gls has been up and down mostly playing as hbf/wing will get more opportunity to hold onto wing in 2016 - this yr is his chance
***O'Meara - 44gms/27gls been injured, but has shown star potential, at worst will be a solid player
Sicily - 25gms/34gls had a breakout yr at AFL, before that had been very good at VFL, seems likely to make it as a 3rd forward/hff
O'Rourke - 18gms/4gls jury is out, has improved at HFC, but hasnt dominated a game in the midfield, needs to dominate a game at AFL level or will be fringe
O'Brien - 18gms/14gls plays the high marking key forward role with a small frame, doesnt clunk enough marks or kick enough goals
Howe - 15gms/1gl his debut game in 2015 was great, he has had good moments, but too often looks lost and possession isnt great, jury still out on him
Brand 11gms/0gls was nervous in his first game or 2 but since then has actually won his position a few times, im liking him for our FB
Burton 4gms/1gl did decent in his first game forward, but really showed promise in his last 2 games as a defender taking intercept marks
Pittonet
Lovell
Heatherley
Hardwick
Miles
Willsmore
Webster

Green - AFL standard, Yellow - might make it, Red - unlikely to make it

I'd go a step further and say that other than Mitchell and JOM none of the others have proven to be afl standard. Jury is still out in Sicily, brand. Burton looks the goods but has played 4 games. TOB, hartung, JOR look doubtful to make it but still could come on.

There's a reasonable chance we'll be discarding a fair few on that list at end of 2017

I struggle to think of a club that has a worse group of under 23s - maybe Richmond, Roos, port or Geelong?
Dees, pies, dogs, swans, suns, GWS, Carlton have got us covered and so do probably Brisbane, WC, crows.

We're clearly in the bottom third of league when it comes to young talent - to confirm we're the worst would take some more detailed analysis but not hard to see that we could actually have the worst group of under 23s and it's not an unreasonable view (I'm not sure why this is so controversial to some).

 

[Londoner86]

I'd go a step further and say that other than Mitchell and JOM none of the others have proven to be afl standard. Jury is still out in Sicily, brand. Burton looks the goods but has played 4 games. TOB, hartung, JOR look doubtful to make it but still could come on.

There's a reasonable chance we'll be discarding a fair few on that list at end of 2017

I struggle to think of a club that has a worse group of under 23s - maybe Richmond, Roos, port or Geelong?
Dees, pies, dogs, swans, suns, GWS, Carlton have got us covered and so do probably Brisbane, WC, crows.

We're clearly in the bottom third of league when it comes to young talent - to confirm we're the worst would take some more detailed analysis but not hard to see that we could actually have the worst group of under 23s and it's not an unreasonable view (I'm not sure why this is so controversial to some).

It's hardly a fair comparison.

Those other clubs' under 23 players look better for 2 reasons:
1. They have plenty of first round draftees; we don't.
2. Their youngsters have played many games by the time they get to 23. Our under 23 players have had very little playing time because of the veterans in our team.

Be patient, give them some game time.

 

[Pessimistic]

I'd go a step further and say that other than Mitchell and JOM none of the others have proven to be afl standard. Jury is still out in Sicily, brand. Burton looks the goods but has played 4 games. TOB, hartung, JOR look doubtful to make it but still could come on.

There's a reasonable chance we'll be discarding a fair few on that list at end of 2017

I struggle to think of a club that has a worse group of under 23s - maybe Richmond, Roos, port or Geelong?
Dees, pies, dogs, swans, suns, GWS, Carlton have got us covered and so do probably Brisbane, WC, crows.

We're clearly in the bottom third of league when it comes to young talent - to confirm we're the worst would take some more detailed analysis but not hard to see that we could actually have the worst group of under 23s and it's not an unreasonable view (I'm not sure why this is so controversial to some).

Whats the comparison on senior games experience hawks compared to those other teams. Significantly less not because they arent at the same standard, but because our senior regulars have kept them out.
16 players took part in each of the three grand finals. been fairly fortunate with injuries or injuries at the right time. Not so fortunate for those pushing up

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

I golfed with a friend yesterday who casually knows and had seen Brett Ratten during the week. He said Ratten was looking very relaxed. He had asked Ratten if trade week had gone the way they wanted and he said that Brett looked like a kid on Christmas with a grin so big that he couldn't hide it but didn't say anything beyond, "Yeah, it was good."

Nice to read.

O'Meara. Mitchell, Vickery, Nash... is a great start.