Religion Pell Guilty!

[Sainteric]

On what basis?

I would suggest purely on the face of it and some of the closing arguments, that they will find the evidence was not holistic enough, IE no grooming and/or was rebutted enough that didn't warrant a conviction, possibly problems with direction to the jury.
I think it will be thrown out.

Obviously no one except those there would have enough information to make that call.

Perhaps the Jury over reached on what the had before them

 

[Thornton Melon]

No. I'm saying Pell was the only bloke in the Catholic Church who actually stood up AND ended the abuse. His predecessor, Archbishop Little, who everyone seems to love, did not. What Pell did required the power Pell finally attained.

Hi George. How's jail?

 

[Sainteric]

Victoria has legislated to scrap the Ellis Defence.

Going forward, that still won't allow the courts to re consider those Victorians that accepted church payments

 

[FredLeDeux]

I would suggest purely on the face of it and some of the closing arguments, that they will find the evidence was not holistic enough, IE no grooming and/or was rebutted enough that didn't warrant a conviction, possibly problems with direction to the jury.
I think it will be thrown out.

Obviously no one except those there would have enough information to make that call.

FMD, "not holistic enough".

Are you related to Denis Denuto by any chance?

 

[FredLeDeux]

Going forward, that still won't allow the courts to re consider those Victorians that accepted church payments

No, sorry, I thought you were just talking about Vic in the context of the Ellis Defence.

 

[Strange Cat]

and I very much doubt that Richter treated him with kid gloves.

Considering that the church will take any redress case to court and have the claim cross examined regardless of the impact on the person

I have no doubt that he wouldn’t had gone easy on the witness

 

[its free real estate]

If Pell converts to Islam and still denies climate change and hates left wingers, Bolt will still love him and probably convert himself.

and I very much doubt that Richter treated him with kid gloves.

they were vanilla kid gloves

 

[Admiral Byng]

I do not believe Pell is " innocent".
But you seem to believe he should not be entitled to appeal.
Like the Chamberlains, I believe the accused are entitled to fair trials and due process.
Not lynch mobs.

I don't think the lynch mob argument applies in this trial. They went to great lengths to avoid it. Hearings in closed court, no media reporting daily of progress of the trial and dissecting each new bit of testimony - the jury went home each night without seeing anything about the trial on TV in or the papers - until after they had done their job and decided a verdict. No justice system is ever perfect, but I think this was the best effort the system could come up with for a fair trial and due process without a hysterical media.

 

[Thornton Melon]

But! But! But! He's a Rhodes Scholar. Show some respect.

When I learned that Abbott was a Rhodes Scholar I looked into the selection criteria. I always assumed it was given to the brightest of the bright, so I needed to know how little Tony got one. Turns out the main criteria are ambition, ambition and ambition. All you need to be eligible for consideration is to have completed a tertiary degree. It doesn't take a genius to complete a tertiary degree.

 

[Strange Cat]

If I was labor I would be rolling out all these endorsements from the past liberals PM during the elections

What a disgrace

 

[Thornton Melon]

Don't be a dick mate. I was abused as a child in country Victoria at a catholic school in the late 70's. This has caused constant depression, at times suicidal thoughts and alcohol abuse. I have always been Catholic and became a teacher in Catholic Schools. We teach teach kids values such as respect, treating people with dignity, empathy and honesty. I believe there is a God and that faith has got me through some dark times. As a Catholic, I cannot control the actions of pieces of shit like Pell and his freaks of mates. Being Catholic and going to a Catholic Church doesn't mean we support the vile crimes of some who have abused their authority. Australia first Saint was a women who taught" never see a need without doing something about it." That is what being Catholic means to me and I will continue to go to Church with that in mind.
It is your business if you think Religion is a scam. This is about the actions of some evil people, who don't represent the millions of good people who truly live out every day what being Catholic means.

You seem to have missed the point. We know that the catholic hierarchy is in favour of kids getting ****ed in the mouth and in the ass by their priests. We don't need to speculate about it. We know it. We know it from their actions across the globe for a long time. We know that this is their business model. And we know that the business model is extremely effective, not only by the vast wealth they have amassed from the frightened and the stupid, but by the fact that a victim like yourself continues to defend the church even after having been r*ped and tortured by it as a child.

 

[AM]

When I learned that Abbott was a Rhodes Scholar I looked into the selection criteria. I always assumed it was given to the brightest of the bright, so I needed to know how little Tony got one. Turns out the main criteria are ambition, ambition and ambition. All you need to be eligible for consideration is to have completed a tertiary degree. It doesn't take a genius to complete a tertiary degree.

Not wishing to defend the Mad Monk but you do have to pass a reasonably high level of study while at Oxford and while his results weren't that spectacular he did get through.

Agree the vetting process is a bit of a joke. The 'independent' head of trade union royal commission, Dyson Heydon, was front and centre in it all.

 

[Thornton Melon]

John Howard is and always will be an embarrassment for this nation. From his decision in imposing the NT intervention on indigenous communities to such things as calling himself a "cricket lover, " and then coming out and bowling this crap for everyone to see. As a PM, he was a massive failure and he continues to show his true colours by showing his support of Pell.
View attachment 626714

A war criminal, a defender of child-rapists and a ridiculous cricketer. What an atrocious little goblin he is.

 

[AM]

Hi George. How's jail?

I have this feeling his time in the jug won't do him any harm in the court of public opinion. And I'm not referring to the credulous cheer squad who will never believe the Cardy could do wrong.

A bit of chatter about that the Red Baron may not be handling the appeal. Although he doesn't appear to have been at his best so far, that would be a mistake in my view.

 

[AM]

Made me laugh!

 

[Thornton Melon]

Pell got done by pure hubris.
He held the strings of a very big purse.
Now he sleeps in a cell

Your haiku needs work. 5-7-5

 

[GWBogan]

Your haiku needs work. 5-7-5

Pell is a paedo
He is off to prison now
Bubba will have fun

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Do I think pell is guilty, yes. I do also believe he didn't have a fair trial. Why? Because for years the media have championed the cause to bring down the Catholic church. They continually ran stories that made out sexual abuse to be a problem confined to the church, and not in any other religion. Eventually something was going to come up and the accused was going to be found guilty due to the unconscious bias of the jury

 

[GuruJane]

Always a point in appealing.
I once sat in on an absolutely hopeless appeal, and asked the judge afterwards whether this happened often, to which he said
'If you were facing 10 years in the slammer, wouldn't you do everything possible to avoid it?"
Added to which, our Court of Appeal has a habit of overturning criminal convictions and sending them back for re-trial at a pretty high rate.

Sounds like the Frank Vincent effect

 

[GuruJane]

I don't think the lynch mob argument applies in this trial. They went to great lengths to avoid it.

I was referring to the tv footage of the lynch mob howling after Pell over the last coupla days.
Obviously this would have happened every day if judge hadn't closed the court for the trials
Unbelievable.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

I do also believe he didn't have a fair trial. Why? Because for years the media have championed the cause to bring down the Catholic church.

There is a general revulsion in civil society towards paedophilia and other crimes against children. Our media reflects this revulsion and amplifies it, as is their job. Does this revulsion mean NOBODY accused of such crimes gets a fair trial?

 

[Bont2Bruce]

Do I think pell is guilty, yes. I do also believe he didn't have a fair trial. Why? Because for years the media have championed the cause to bring down the Catholic church. They continually ran stories that made out sexual abuse to be a problem confined to the church, and not in any other religion. Eventually something was going to come up and the accused was going to be found guilty due to the unconscious bias of the jury

Horseshit. Total horseshit.

The Royal Commission into child abuse did not single out the Catholic Church, it took the questioning up to the Anglican Church, Jehovas' Witnesses, Yeshivah Melbourne, the Salvation Army, Boy Scouts, YMCA and a very long list of other institutions.

All of this got plenty of media coverage, there was no singling out of just the Catholics.

Go and educate yourself.

https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/

 

[TimmeT]

Some bloke who was present and a victim of preist abuse rang 774 today reminded everyone of the similarities between a number of cases. Also it was interesting that the wine getting left out was supposedly and old trick and had been seen many times.

 

[Sainteric]

Do I think pell is guilty, yes. I do also believe he didn't have a fair trial. Why? Because for years the media have championed the cause to bring down the Catholic church. They continually ran stories that made out sexual abuse to be a problem confined to the church, and not in any other religion. Eventually something was going to come up and the accused was going to be found guilty due to the unconscious bias of the jury

According to the royal commission of the estimated 40% who came forward 62% cases against the Catholic church, 14% Anglican 7% Salvos then a whole lot of small numbers. Combine that with the fact some of the non catholics were not ignoring it, blaming victims, and threatening legal actions like the Catholics were under Pell's command.

Makes any poor old Catholics rant such as your very hollow.

 

[Pessimistic]

he will get looked after by the faithful in Jail.
I heard the catholics still put flowers on Catherine of Arragons grave now - centuries later


maybe Saint George of Pell in 50 years time?