Religion Pell Guilty!

[Del191229]

1. Former Catholic, really, but I'll cop to #TeamPell. I don't like mobs and it seems to me they've gone after the only bloke who actually stood up ended the abuse within the church in Australia.

"Stood up to" - or who devised a very lawlerly and Jesuitical way to defuse and payoff and sweep allegations away. The same bloke who was living and breathing the same air as serial rapists like Ridsdale.

The Victorian Catholic clergy of the 1950s - 90s was one giant sexual abuse clan. Those who weren't actively doing it were covering it up.

You'll be deeply familiar with the concept of sins of omission and commission. All of them were guilty one way or another.

2. Time will tell, but I disagree with your journo mate.

Well, he's got a pretty amazing record. But yes, I was initially of the view Pell would skate because, "the system man", but no, the system works sometimes.

3. You need unanimity to acquit, just as you do to convict.

Indeed, and they couldn't find 12 people to acquit, but they could find 12 who'd convict.

That might just tell you something here.

4. VicPol and DPP are also world experts in pursuing a political agenda which will become more clear in time.

Oh frigging spare me, we know for a long time that VicPol actively covered up for fiddler priests, the Catholic Mafia was very real.

Not being protected anymore by Sergeant Mick and Pat O'Leary isn't falling victim to an "agenda".

5. You're right. They did "get him good." Not sure it's something to celebrate though if what they got him for is a creation. Would seem to do the cause more harm than good I would think (the cause being the ending of child sexual abuse).

Well, it isn't a creation is it. Its a conviction for child rape.

Enjoy defending the happy world of child rape.

 

[Bombermania]

I'm not sure what you want the Church to do. They've owned up (too late yes but they have). They've ended the abuse, at least in this country.

They're paying compensation. Now you want them to shut down the confessional. Tell me something.....How many priests or others do you reckon would confess to abuse if there was mandatory reporting?

Teachers and health professionals are legally required to report cases of child abuse and that should apply to your church.

The church has been dragged kicking and screaming to paying some victims compensation.

The church needs to get its house in order, its call culture and it is set by the top and at every level of the organsiation, that means no more excuses or well someone else does it too kind of BS cop outs.

The Catholic Church is in worst shape than the banks.

 

[BRWB]

I'm not sure what you want the Church to do. They've owned up (too late yes but they have). They've ended the abuse, at least in this country.

They're paying compensation. Now you want them to shut down the confessional. Tell me something.....How many priests or others do you reckon would confess to abuse if there was mandatory reporting?

Actually respond to the outstanding Australian request to the Vatican that mandatory celibacy be outlawed in Australia

Pay at least equivalent comp to sex abuse victims that courts would award (not less as per the scheme set up by Pell)

Allow women into the church as equals

Stop sheltering and protecting child rapists

What more do you want the Church to do....lol

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Teachers and health professionals are legally required to report cases of child abuse and that should apply to your church.

The church as been dragged kicking and screaming to paying some victims compensation.

The church needs to get its house in order, its call culture and it is set by the top and at every level of the organsiation, that means no more excuses or well someone else does it too kind of BS cop outs.

Try answering the question. How many? Should lawyers also mandatorily report crimes they become aware of?

 

[Strange Cat]

I do laugh that the so called compensation from the church for the victims is progressive

They were advocating hard for the payments to come from the government and that none of their assests were to be touched

And in the end they still fight in the courts regarding the payouts to the victims

Laughable using that to defend the church

 

[Del191229]

As a former teacher of Religious Education and a former Minister of the Eucharist for 20 years, a devout Catholic for the first 44 years of my life and now a Catholic waiting to return to the Church partially because of this bastard,"Rejoice in the Lord always: again I will say, Rejoice."(Phil 4:4)

He did a lot more to the Church and its people than just this conviction that some of us will never forgive him for. May he burn in the fires of Gehenna.

Yes, my mother taught in the Catholic Church and rose very senior in the CEO and had to leave when she found the senior leadership - Archbishop at the time was one G.Pell - were simply burying the reports she was making about paedo priests at work in the schools she was managing.

But don't worry, BruceFromBalnarring tells us Pell ended the abuse.

 

[Bombermania]

Try answering the question. How many? Should lawyers also mandatorily report crimes they become aware of?

I did answer it by pointing out that the same rules that apply to teachers and health professionals should also apply to the Catholic Church in light of the fact that they run their own education system so they should only hire people deemed safe to work with children.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Bolt will find a way to excuse Pell and discredit the court system, the DPP, the air we breathe...

The campaigners in the Catholic Establishment are doing it already - it burnt my retinas


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[Gough]

The campaigners in the Catholic Establishment are doing it already - it burnt my retinas


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

The judge always has the option of inviting them into his court room to explain themselves if they go too far, they may want to tread warily.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

So the leader of cult got done for sex crimes....there's a surprise

 

[Sainteric]

Should lawyers also mandatorily report crimes they become aware of?

They are an officer of the court

 

[BRWB]

I do laugh that the so called compensation from the church for the victims is progressive

They were advocating hard for the payments to come from the government and that none of their assests were to be touched

And in the end they still fight in the courts regarding the payouts to the victims

Laughable using that to defend the church

Wasn't it the Ellis defence that the Church held it was an employer and shouldn't be liable for the actions of its employees (the priests) and tried to avoid payment altogether?

lol

But it is sickening to see child rapists and the institution that fosters such child abuse constantly defended by some who seem to confuse faith in God with faith in a corrupt institution that has systematically covered up, refused to acknowledge and refused to pay compensation relating to child abuse.

 

[Maggie5]

Report from a reporter that sat through the hearings.

The trial in Melbourne, described as the “cathedral trial”, was not Pell’s first.
In August he faced the county court on the same charges he was eventually convicted of. That trial lasted for almost five weeks and resulted in a hung jury. A mistrial was declared, with several of the jurors in tears as the forewoman told the court’s chief judge, Peter Kidd, they could not come to either a unanimous or a majority 11-to-one verdict.

A retrial began in November 2018 with a strict suppression order in place preventing any reporting of both the previous case and the retrial. That was because Pell faced further, separate, charges known as the “swimmers trial” in a case due to be heard this April.

It can now be revealed that Pell was convicted of four charges of an indecent act on a child under the age of 16, and one charge of sexual penetration of a child under 16.

The media and public were barred from being present during the complainant’s evidence, as is standard in sexual assault cases to protect the victim from reliving their trauma in front of an audience.

But his police statement, made in June 2015, and his evidence to the court via video link were quoted throughout the trial. The other boy involved died in 2014 from a heroin overdose. He never reported the abuse to police.

He (Richter) said the case against Pell was made up of improbabilities, which could only lead jurors to finding that the alleged offences were “impossible” and defied common sense.

They were the product of “fantasy”, Richter said, because Pell had never been alone during mass while he was archbishop of Melbourne.

In the retrial, Richter resorted to using a PowerPoint presentation during his closing address to drill his point home, a move that surprised many in the courtroom. One slide flashed on the screen that simply read: “Only a madman would attempt to rape two boys in the priests sacristy immediately after Sunday solemn mass.”

Kidd allowed the PowerPoint, but barred Richter from using a video animation during his closing address, saying it risked leading the jury to believe that what was being shown was fact, and new evidence was not allowed to be shown during closing addresses.

 

[BRWB]

Report from a reporter that sat through the hearings.

The trial in Melbourne, described as the “cathedral trial”, was not Pell’s first.
In August he faced the county court on the same charges he was eventually convicted of. That trial lasted for almost five weeks and resulted in a hung jury. A mistrial was declared, with several of the jurors in tears as the forewoman told the court’s chief judge, Peter Kidd, they could not come to either a unanimous or a majority 11-to-one verdict.

A retrial began in November 2018 with a strict suppression order in place preventing any reporting of both the previous case and the retrial. That was because Pell faced further, separate, charges known as the “swimmers trial” in a case due to be heard this April.

It can now be revealed that Pell was convicted of four charges of an indecent act on a child under the age of 16, and one charge of sexual penetration of a child under 16.

The media and public were barred from being present during the complainant’s evidence, as is standard in sexual assault cases to protect the victim from reliving their trauma in front of an audience.

But his police statement, made in June 2015, and his evidence to the court via video link were quoted throughout the trial. The other boy involved died in 2014 from a heroin overdose. He never reported the abuse to police.

He (Richter) said the case against Pell was made up of improbabilities, which could only lead jurors to finding that the alleged offences were “impossible” and defied common sense.

They were the product of “fantasy”, Richter said, because Pell had never been alone during mass while he was archbishop of Melbourne.

In the retrial, Richter resorted to using a PowerPoint presentation during his closing address to drill his point home, a move that surprised many in the courtroom. One slide flashed on the screen that simply read: “Only a madman would attempt to rape two boys in the priests sacristy immediately after Sunday solemn mass.”

Kidd allowed the PowerPoint, but barred Richter from using a video animation during his closing address, saying it risked leading the jury to believe that what was being shown was fact, and new evidence was not allowed to be shown during closing addresses.

Its this quote that sticks with me...

In the retrial, Richter resorted to using a PowerPoint presentation during his closing address to drill his point home, a move that surprised many in the courtroom. One slide flashed on the screen that simply read: “Only a madman would attempt to rape two boys in the priests sacristy immediately after Sunday solemn mass.”

You see a normal, rational, non abuser of children would stop the sentence where I have...."Only a madman would attempt to rape two boys."

 

[A Cut Above]

Yes, my mother taught in the Catholic Church and rose very senior in the CEO and had to leave when she found the senior leadership - Archbishop at the time was one G.Pell - were simply burying the reports she was making about paedo priests at work in the schools she was managing.

But don't worry, BruceFromBalnarring tells us Pell ended the abuse.

Perhaps Chief ought to step in and award Bruce a non-removable title under his username that reads "Defender of Child Defilement"?

If a poster's going to espouse a truly abhorrent creed it should be hung around their necks for all to see, that they be forced to live by it.

 

[Del191229]

The campaigners in the Catholic Establishment are doing it already - it burnt my retinas


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

So let us get straight, the folks on Naura who have been shown to be NOT rapists are rapists, but the bloke just convicted of child rape, is not a child rapist?

Righto Andrew.

 

[Bombermania]

Perhaps Chief ought to step in and award Bruce a non-removable title under his username that reads "Defender of Child Defilement"?

If a poster's going to espouse a truly abhorrent creed it should be hung around their necks for all to see, that they be forced to live by it.

There are many Catholics that would agree with Bruce's comments, and that is the problem, many of them simply cannot deal with it and see it as an attack on their faith.

 

[Strange Cat]

Perhaps Chief ought to step in and award Bruce a non-removable title under his username that reads "Defender of Child Defilement"?

If a poster's going to espouse a truly abhorrent creed it should be hung around their necks for all to see, that they be forced to live by it.

Never thought I’ll see the day that I’d agree with you on anything

You have my respect

 

[Contra Mundum]

So let us get straight, the folks on Naura who have been shown to be NOT rapists are rapists, but the bloke just convicted of child rape, is not a child rapist?

Righto Andrew.

Least Christian people out there - **** them all


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Gough]

So let us get straight, the folks on Naura who have been shown to be NOT rapists are rapists, but the bloke just convicted of child rape, is not a child rapist?

Righto Andrew.

 

[Sainteric]

I didn't know he was still a patron of Richmond, would have been uncomfortable with that a while ago.

 

[Chief]

The campaigners in the Catholic Establishment are doing it already - it burnt my retinas


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Links for us lazy people?

 

[Maggie5]

CNN reporting decision.

 

[Sainteric]

Links for us lazy people?

See my earlier post from Jesuit Brennan ACU Dean of law ( I think he is still in that role)

 

[Del191229]

Perhaps Chief ought to step in and award Bruce a non-removable title under his username that reads "Defender of Child Defilement"?

If a poster's going to espouse a truly abhorrent creed it should be hung around their necks for all to see, that they be forced to live by it.

What is it about blokes called Bruce defending the indefensible in these things and concocting wild conspiracy theories to explain away the obvious? Bruce Francis, Bruce from Balnarring ...