Religion Pell Guilty!

Maggie5

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Is it not a potential fact that jury 1 was 10-2 acquit?


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What is a 'potential fact'?

I have read from other 'sources' that it was a holdout the other way (to convict).

In summary, it just depends who you want to believe and given that this second hearing was a unanimous decision, I know which one I believe.
 

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sideswipe

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What is a 'potential fact'?

I have read from other 'sources' that it was a holdout the other way (to convict).

In summary, it just depends who you want to believe and given that this second hearing was a unanimous decision, I know which one I believe.
Indeed! It is certainly the only one that matters.


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BruceFromBalnarring

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Don’t forget that the first jury had finished well before the second verdict... so maybe a few members were yappy? But this was only released later?


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The numbers in the first jury were well known from the date that they gave their verdict. And were openly discussed amongst people for both sides throughout the second trial. They're often known, and the source is an open secret. Everyone in court knows where to find out.
 

BruceFromBalnarring

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Do you have faith in the appeal system?
I don't know. The discussion in my circles has gone lately from "This verdict will get tossed in 5 minutes" to "I hope the SCA has the courage to toss this verdict". And these are lawyers that are not Catholic and don't particularly like Pell.

If you take this thread alone as an indicator, there will be riots if Pell gets acquitted. The media have certainly made their feelings clear. Which kind of makes it all the more necessary that, in the circumstances (that the jury verdict is unsafe), he is acquitted.
 

BruceFromBalnarring

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So if Pell succeeds in his Appeal has he have any rights to sue for damages?
I think he'd have to do more than be acquitted.

He'd have to be able to show it was a stitch up, and that will take years. Years he doesn't have. He might have a case against Louise Milligan and Melbourne Uni Press.
 

FredLeDeux

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The numbers in the first jury were well known from the date that they gave their verdict. And were openly discussed amongst people for both sides throughout the second trial. They're often known, and the source is an open secret. Everyone in court knows where to find out.
Total BS from beginning to end, mere retrospective Pell-apologist propaganda for a convenient internet-generated "rumour".
 
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BruceFromBalnarring

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Pell DIDN'T defend and support Risdale?:drunk::drunk::drunk:
This bastard can simply do no wrong in your eyes.
How much is the church paying you to continue this propaganda crusade?
I don't think I wrote that. And for what it's worth, I don't think Pell defended Ridsdale either.

He certainly supported him, in the sense of not leaving an old man to walk up to court on his own.

Now I ask you. I wrote that Pell didn't excuse Ridsdale. You responded as though I'd written "didn't defend and support" then put 3 stupid face smileys.

Why did you do that? Why did you change my words (they have distinctly different meanings) then put those faces as though I was crazy to have said such a thing when I didn't say it?

It's almost as though you are arguing in bad faith.
 
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I don't think I wrote that. And for what it's worth, I don't think Pell defended Ridsdale either.

He certainly supported him, in the sense of not leaving an old man to walk up to court on his own.

Now I ask you. I wrote that Pell didn't excuse Ridsdale. You responded as though I'd written "didn't defend and support" then put 3 stupid face smileys.

Why did you do that? Why did you change my words (they have distinctly different meanings) then put those faces as though I was crazy to have said such a thing when I didn't say it?

It's almost as though you are arguing in bad faith.
It's almost like you're on a crusade to defend Pell, regardless of the accusation, at all costs.
You can semantically label it excuse, defend, support whatever.
But the fact remains that Risdale's extensive career in buggery was widely known throughout the church, as per church documentation revealed in his myriad of court cases and convictions.

For you to imply that Pell had NO KNOWLEDGE of Risdale's "escapades" and was simply there to walk a poor old man into court is simply preposterous.
But keep on defending your holy father at all costs Bruce.
It's sickening but at the same time riveting in a completely morbid fashion.
 

BruceFromBalnarring

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It's almost like you're on a crusade to defend Pell, regardless of the accusation, at all costs.
You can semantically label it excuse, defend, support whatever.
But the fact remains that Risdale's extensive career in buggery was widely known throughout the church, as per church documentation revealed in his myriad of court cases and convictions.

For you to imply that Pell had NO KNOWLEDGE of Risdale's "escapades" and was simply there to walk a poor old man into court is simply preposterous.
But keep on defending your holy father at all costs Bruce.
It's sickening but at the same time riveting in a completely morbid fashion.
Yeah.......semantics. :drunk::drunk::drunk:
 

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I think he'd have to do more than be acquitted.

He'd have to be able to show it was a stitch up, and that will take years. Years he doesn't have. He might have a case against Louise Milligan and Melbourne Uni Press.
Pell the victim!!....you are calling a child rapist the victim in all of this

Take a very very long hard look at yourself . It isn’t a conspiracy that has occurred, this is a monster who faced the justice system and was found guilty of raping two children.

And he’s the victim? FMD you keep amazing me how far down the barrel you’ll go.

EDIT: not once in this entire thread have you shown any sympathy or compassion towards the brave witness or the deceased survivor, instead you have labeled him a liar.

You really are a low low pathetic creature.
 
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Here's Helen Last, the counsellor hired by the catholic church to assist victims of clerical abuse...

Ms Last says she developed suspicions about Pell very early during her work with the Archdiocese of Melbourne.
She heard many stories from victims of clergy sexual abuse in different parishes, especially that Pell knew what was happening and was protecting priests who were abusing children.

‘‘It was alleged to me early that Pell was among a group of offenders from Ballarat to Melbourne. They were part of the Ballarat organised clerical offending, which extended down to Laverton and around Melbourne.’’



I'm sure that Ms Last and all the other survivors making claims were in on the conspiracy against Pell and the church as well? Yeah?
So he's either a defender of them, an excuse maker for them, a supporter of them or one of them.
Or a mixture of all four!

Oh, and a bit more about Ms Last

Ms Last’s contract was terminated in May 1997 as a result, she claims, of her defying explicit instructions from archbishop Pell and then vicar-general Denis Hart to stay away from the Doveton parish, which suffered six paedophiles in succession as parish priest or assistant priest.

Seems that George didn't like a pesky counsellor entering his domain of power and evil.
 
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The strange thing is, there is a huge power on one side of this verdict. It is like the conservative forces have combined into a mega-Voltron-power. Not small conservative forces as well, this is made up of parts of The Catholic Church, Two former PMs of The Liberal Party, and NewsCorp. Yet despite all this power... all they seem to be doing is complaining about it to the media. It is like when the anti-rape consumer watchdog is complaining to the newspapers about petrol prices.

Surely if there are evil, sinister, and corrupt forces within our Australian "Democracy" there are mechanisms in place to weed this out? Surely these people can go through an official route?

Seriously, what do they want us to do about it?
 

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But the fact remains that Risdale's extensive career in buggery was widely known throughout the church, as per church documentation revealed in his myriad of court cases a`nd convictions.

For you to imply that Pell had NO KNOWLEDGE of Risdale's "escapades" and was simply there to walk a poor old man into court is simply preposterous.
Pell and Ridsdale shared a house for quite some time, in Ballarat I think it was. Sometimes Ridsdale supported Pell. At other times Pell supported Ridsdale. They were both very versatile chaps.

That Pell happened to support Ridsdale on the occasion of his court appearance, merely meant that it was Pell's turn to support Ridsdale.
 
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Pell and Ridsdale shared a house for quite some time, in Ballarat I think it was. Sometimes Ridsdale supported Pell. At other times Pell supported Ridsdale. They were both very versatile chaps.

That Pell happened to support Ridsdale on the occasion of his court appearance, merely meant that it was Ridsdale's turn to be support Pell.
George must have had his wireless earphones on with Metallica at full volume whilst Risdale was sodomising anything under 15 with two legs and a heartbeat.
What a guy!
 
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The strange thing is, there is a huge power on one side of this verdict. It is like the conservative forces have combined into a mega-Voltron-power. Not small conservative forces as well, this is made up of parts of The Catholic Church, Two former PMs of The Liberal Party, and NewsCorp. Yet despite all this power... all they seem to be doing is complaining about it to the media. It is like when the anti-rape consumer watchdog is complaining to the newspapers about petrol prices.

Surely if there are evil, sinister, and corrupt forces within our Australian "Democracy" there are mechanisms in place to weed this out? Surely these people can go through an official route?

Seriously, what do they want us to do about it?
Even if they do not want to utilise an official route, NewsCorp has investigative journalists, one of the former PMs is still an "active" :D :D :D member of Parliament, The Catholic Church can hire assassins, or even just private investigators. Seems like they are not even trying.

If it is so bad, that these current legal* routes cannot be taken, they can always go to <looks both ways> Wikileaks, I understand Murdoch's press has a few mad skills when it came to phone tapping etc. If they are right, they will end up on the right side of history, no civilised person would have feelings of hatred or animosity towards them, just like no civilised person would have any hatred or animosity towards any of the poor wretches who exposed corruption in the Nazi Party, or the ATO.
 

Number37

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I don't know. The discussion in my circles has gone lately from "This verdict will get tossed in 5 minutes" to "I hope the SCA has the courage to toss this verdict". And these are lawyers that are not Catholic and don't particularly like Pell.

If you take this thread alone as an indicator, there will be riots if Pell gets acquitted. The media have certainly made their feelings clear. Which kind of makes it all the more necessary that, in the circumstances (that the jury verdict is unsafe), he is acquitted.
It is disturbing how you so easily rationalise that an upheld appeal = the right decision but regard the jury verdict as wrong.

You have rioted since the jury verdict was made public. As has some sections of media.
You hope that Pell is acquitted for no reason other than your own fabricated media conspiracy against Pell.

That alone demonstrates that you have no interest in justice being done. That is disturbing.
 

BruceFromBalnarring

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It is disturbing how you so easily rationalise that an upheld appeal = the right decision but regard the jury verdict as wrong.

You have rioted since the jury verdict was made public. As has some sections of media.
You hope that Pell is acquitted for no reason other than your own fabricated media conspiracy against Pell.

That alone demonstrates that you have no interest in justice being done. That is disturbing.
Someone asked me a question. I answered it.
 

sideswipe

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Here's Helen Last, the counsellor hired by the catholic church to assist victims of clerical abuse...

Ms Last says she developed suspicions about Pell very early during her work with the Archdiocese of Melbourne.
She heard many stories from victims of clergy sexual abuse in different parishes, especially that Pell knew what was happening and was protecting priests who were abusing children.


‘‘It was alleged to me early that Pell was among a group of offenders from Ballarat to Melbourne. They were part of the Ballarat organised clerical offending, which extended down to Laverton and around Melbourne.’’


I'm sure that Ms Last and all the other survivors making claims were in on the conspiracy against Pell and the church as well? Yeah?
So he's either a defender of them, an excuse maker for them, a supporter of them or one of them.
Or a mixture of all four!

Oh, and a bit more about Ms Last

Ms Last’s contract was terminated in May 1997 as a result, she claims, of her defying explicit instructions from archbishop Pell and then vicar-general Denis Hart to stay away from the Doveton parish, which suffered six paedophiles in succession as parish priest or assistant priest.

Seems that George didn't like a pesky counsellor entering his domain of power and evil.
With respect, Ms Last might alternatively be characterized as a disgruntled former employee with a history of raising dubious claims, eg. at the Vic Inquiry into child sexual abuse, she claimed a barrister, Tim Seccull, had settled 300 survivor claims with the Church. The correct number was 1.

Regarding the article from which you have quoted, the reporting of that particular claim by the Age as another allegation against Pell is patently unfair. The article itself describes "Joe" as "not a strong witness", a very soft way of saying, "he was clearly a bullsh-t artist" (note, I am not suggesting anything about other witnesses, other allegations, just "Joe"). The supposed photos were apparently very amateurish photoshop attempts at putting priests faces onto bodies in sex scenes. Leaving aside everything else, this re-hashing of a clearly bogus claim to add on as a further suspicion around Pell was pretty ordinary IMO.
 
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