Politics Pensions: the biggest rort in society

[Seeds]

The current pension system is completely unsustainable and is about to become the biggest theft of a generation from another generation now that the baby boomers have started taking pensions.

The pension system was designed to fund people in their last ten years of life when they could no longer work. However, dramatic increases in life expectancy means that it is now funding people in their last 20-30 years of life and the proportion of those in the population in the retirement age bracket is about to sky rocket thanks to the baby boomers.

What makes this worse is the means test for getting access to the pension. The house of residence is excluded from the asset test. So people living in 2 million dollar homes with a half million dollars in other assets are actually earning money from tax payers. This is nothing more then corruption. And whats worse this rort encourages the baby boomers to stay in their expensive 4-5 bedroom homes after all their kids have left to keep their pension coming in. This keeps housing prices high as well and who benefits from that more than anyone else: the baby boomers.

Watch as income taxes go up to fund this rort over the next decade. Hell both governments have already suggested a raise in taxes to fund this. It is just a matter of how much and how quickly.

Oh and guess when the retirement age is due to rise to mitigate this problem? Not until all the baby boomers are well and truly retired and thus wont be affected by it.

Stop complaining about welfare cheats, single mothers, gays getting married (or not getting married) or even money being wasted on out of date submarines. This is the real problem in society. It is time to get angry. The baby boomers are pigs hogging the barrel. They must be stopped.

 

[RupieDupie]

The writing is on the wall, a cursory read of The Daily Terrograph will show the kind of sentiments some people have for the younger generations, that they are lazy potheads wanting to change their sex and introduce sharia law. The younger generations are presented as the scum generations who cannot afford a house because they don't work as hard as the people who had their parents fight for "their" freedom, free tertiary education and house prices at only ~2x median income.

From the government's perspective presenting the subsequent generations as terrorists is a good move, so they can spend without worrying about posterity. Here are some further signs of the times;

1) I'm 99.99998% sure that the pyramid scheme known as superannuation will be gone by the time the subsequent generations after the baby boomers, are of retirement age. Superannuation is just a scam for future generations to be forced into.

2) Hockey showed a few cards on how the government really feels about the Australian public. He raised the retirement age to hit 70 by 2035 (tracking his age all the way, he just happens to turn 70 that year). If the retirement age is subsequently raised by one to two standard deviations over life expectancy, most people of the subsequent generations can be made to work for most of their lives and then the government wouldn't need to worry about paying these subsequent scum generations a pension.

3) Additionally notice how the government is also selling off most of Australia's assets and land? I heard rumours that if an investor buys Asset A they will get Asset B thrown in for free, with a set of steak knives. All of Australia must go in this sale.

 

[skilts]

Please don't think that your munificence is unacknowledged.

Seriously though, you make a fair point about house of residence values. If this loophole were to be closed, the likelihood of money being available to those who actually deserve it would be hugely increased. Truth is, another characteristic should be attributed to my generation (above the ones you've mentioned) - given our numbers, if we/they were to choose to get off our arses, and free up their considerable wallets, governments which sought to alter this situation would be very short-lived indeed. That's why any effective changes in this area are unlikely, unfair as that may be.

 

[Kurve]

Baby boomers didn't just suddenly sneak up on the government and take us all by surprise. Back off attacking old people who have worked all their lives paying tax and turning the economy over.

Actually, leave them all alone and demand better from government. Nobody has to be attacked at all including dole recipients who might get a bit of extra cash, single mothers or gays getting married. Also, don't piss the baby boomers off they want you to do well.

 

[MAGA]

Baby boomers didn't just suddenly sneak up on the government and take us all by surprise. Back off attacking old people who have worked all their lives paying tax and turning the economy over.

Actually, leave them all alone and demand better from government. Nobody has to be attacked at all including dole recipients who might get a bit of extra cash, single mothers or gays getting married. Also, don't piss the baby boomers off they want you to do well.

LOL the only people being attacked are those who are net tax payers..ie. the productive people of society.

 

[Frank Bunn]

I'm not sure the scale of the problem justifies the outrage.

According to this article - on average, pensioners have about $113,000 in assets.

https://theconversation.com/government-tightens-pension-assets-test-to-save-2-4-billion-41449

 

[AM]

It runs against the grain for me to give reactionary governments any credit but I do applaud them for reducing the allowable assets for a part age pension to a home and $550.000 for a single person and a home and $827.000 for a couple. I'd reduce that further and take into account homes worth $1.5m and over.

 

[nicky]

The current pension system is completely unsustainable and is about to become the biggest theft of a generation from another generation now that the baby boomers have started taking pensions.

...................................

Lol, I couldn't agree more Seeds. When I think about the magical ride these baby boomers have received it is almost comical. Free education, house prices were less than an average year's wage, negative gearing, pensions and the list goes on.

Once the last baby boomer got their free education there was a massive push to make the next generation pay for their education. They have had a dream ride and voted selfishly to make things more difficult for the next generations, not taking into account the environmental damage that has been done (not all their doing, but the blow out happened on their watch).

Generally speaking they are in such denial about how freakin good they've had it that I find it hilarious. Like, owning 4 properties, negatively gearing three, all in areas where there is good infrastructure, which they alone, haven't paid for, the whole tax paying community has, then have the audacity to protest against high density development, which again, pushes house prices up and forces the younger generations to move into areas where there is little infrastructure.

Overall, a very selfish generation. I am a gen Xer and have more faith in the generations younger than me. This is why I am able to laugh at baby boomers. I truly believe the up and coming generations are better.

 

[madmug]

I'm not sure the scale of the problem justifies the outrage.

According to this article - on average, pensioners have about $113,000 in assets.

https://theconversation.com/government-tightens-pension-assets-test-to-save-2-4-billion-41449

As usual we get the faux outrage without knowing any facts. Clearly most on the pension have worked all their lives raising families, contributing to the building of this country, & never had the opportunity to gain benefits from a superannuation scheme.
The real problem are those with massive trusts & overseas 'tax evasion' schemes. Like our own PM for instance. Maybe even the negative gearing rort with some people having many many properties which contribute nothing to our housing stocks but they get the tax concession to maximise their asset values.

 

[Kurve]

I'm not sure the scale of the problem justifies the outrage.

According to this article - on average, pensioners have about $113,000 in assets.

https://theconversation.com/government-tightens-pension-assets-test-to-save-2-4-billion-41449

The problem doesn't justify the outrage at baby boomers in general, it's totally inappropriate and kind of repulsive. "The baby boomers are pigs ... " that's what they have to put up with from a generation of narcs with a deeply embedded sense of entitlement.

http://aspeneducation.crchealth.com/articles/article-entitlement/

 

[Bomberboyokay]

I feel the "Baby Boomers ruined everything" comes up because bringing up the more important and diagnosable issue of "rich people are dicking not rich people" gets shouted down as class warfare, other ridiculous terms, or left-wing extremism (30-year-old Liberal voters who want the refugees to * off don't want a bar of that). So fair frustration gets channeled into an age thing. The lazier and nefarious parts of the trash media kraken also prefer the "OLD GENERATION VS NEW GENERATION!@!@!!!!~" angle over boring economics that their proprietor may not like.

There's plenty of baby boomers who aren't swimming in it, didn't buy a house (or did and lost it at some point), and are poor. There's also a good number of baby boomers who died from health problems that would treatable if they were born decades later.

 

[sherb]

Lol, I couldn't agree more Seeds. When I think about the magical ride these baby boomers have received it is almost comical. Free education, house prices were less than an average year's wage, negative gearing, pensions and the list goes on.

Once the last baby boomer got their free education there was a massive push to make the next generation pay for their education. They have had a dream ride and voted selfishly to make things more difficult for the next generations, not taking into account the environmental damage that has been done (not all their doing, but the blow out happened on their watch).

Generally speaking they are in such denial about how freakin good they've had it that I find it hilarious. Like, owning 4 properties, negatively gearing three, all in areas where there is good infrastructure, which they alone, haven't paid for, the whole tax paying community has, then have the audacity to protest against high density development, which again, pushes house prices up and forces the younger generations to move into areas where there is little infrastructure.

Overall, a very selfish generation. I am a gen Xer and have more faith in the generations younger than me. This is why I am able to laugh at baby boomers. I truly believe the up and coming generations are better.

All baby boomers are not the same you know.

 

[twotooto]

Gee the Baby Boomers do cop it a bit.

There's this perception they're all on year long, govt sponsored holidays, sailing around the Bahamas on private yachts and sipping on pina coladas.

Sure there's people exploiting the system but there's also heaps of pensioners that are actually doing it really tough. What do people propose we do about them? Throw em out on the street? Without the pension they would be well and truly ****ed. Happy for that to happen?

Not every Baby Boomer hit the jackpot with enormous super funds. Nor do they all own their own homes. Many are still heavily involved in parenting roles and many have their resources tied up helping out their kids.

However, I do think that, as a rule, they were more big picture than generations after them - they were all about looking after the goose that lays the egg as opposed to nowadays where it's all about the eggs and * the goose and I want those eggs and I want em yesterday thanks very much.

Maybe pensions do need to be looked at but surely there's bigger things to worry about it.

 

[Papa G]

It never seems to be brought up, but death taxes for larger estates wouldn't be a stupid idea.

 

[ABSOLUTE MADMAN]

The current pension system is completely unsustainable and is about to become the biggest theft of a generation from another generation now that the baby boomers have started taking pensions.

The pension system was designed to fund people in their last ten years of life when they could no longer work. However, dramatic increases in life expectancy means that it is now funding people in their last 20-30 years of life and the proportion of those in the population in the retirement age bracket is about to sky rocket thanks to the baby boomers.

What makes this worse is the means test for getting access to the pension. The house of residence is excluded from the asset test. So people living in 2 million dollar homes with a half million dollars in other assets are actually earning money from tax payers. This is nothing more then corruption. And whats worse this rort encourages the baby boomers to stay in their expensive 4-5 bedroom homes after all their kids have left to keep their pension coming in. This keeps housing prices high as well and who benefits from that more than anyone else: the baby boomers.

Watch as income taxes go up to fund this rort over the next decade. Hell both governments have already suggested a raise in taxes to fund this. It is just a matter of how much and how quickly.

Oh and guess when the retirement age is due to rise to mitigate this problem? Not until all the baby boomers are well and truly retired and thus wont be affected by it.

Stop complaining about welfare cheats, single mothers, gays getting married (or not getting married) or even money being wasted on out of date submarines. This is the real problem in society. It is time to get angry. The baby boomers are pigs hogging the barrel. They must be stopped.

There is potential for a Trump style political shock for Australia in the future due to what is described here. There will be growing discontent from people who cannot afford to buy a house anywhere near an employable area being expected to pay the pensions of those who have more wealth than those renters ever will.

Australia may be headed toward a point where there will be only two working taxpayers for each aged pensioner in the future. If the majority of wealth is held by the pension recieving generation there will be alot of resentment to capitalise on politically.

I am not saying it is right. Just noting the path this country could be headed toward.

 

[nicky]

All baby boomers are not the same you know.

Absolutely. I know many baby boomers that understand the free ride they've been given and the unfairness of pushing the younger generations out to Caroline Springs so their neighbourhoods remain unchanged. I'm speaking very broadly about how things have unfolded throughout their existence, like free education for them then abolishing this for the next generations and things like this.

I definitely understand that not all baby boomers are selfish but you gotta admit, they've had a sweet ride.

 

[Seeds]

I'm not sure the scale of the problem justifies the outrage.

According to this article - on average, pensioners have about $113,000 in assets.

https://theconversation.com/government-tightens-pension-assets-test-to-save-2-4-billion-41449

So the family home plus 800,000 dollars and you start earning pension money? That is an extreme rort. A pension should not be earned until your combined assets including the family home are below 800,000 dollars in total. An argument coukd be made that it should be even less. If you are earning a pension you should be living in small apartments that cost 400,000 or less. The pension should be treated like any other form of welfare. Only for those who are most disadvantaged and cant live without it. I can guarantee this is what it will be like in thirty years after the baby boomers are dead. Retired people cant work now but they could of saved when they did work. If they didnt save why should they live extremely better lives in their retirement years then low income earners are now. Yes they should be comfortable as all elderly and disabled people should be treated. But they should not be able to live extravegent lives that involve regular overseas holidays as many baby boomers earning pensions are now doing. Tax payers are funding this. How would we feel if dole recipients were using their dole to go on expensive holidays to Paris and New York.

 

[Seeds]

There is potential for a Trump style political shock for Australia in the future due to what is described here. There will be growing discontent from people who cannot afford to buy a house anywhere near an employable area being expected to pay the pensions of those who have more wealth than those renters ever will.

Australia may be headed toward a point where there will be only two working taxpayers for each aged pensioner in the future. If the majority of wealth is held by the pension recieving generation there will be alot of resentment to capitalise on politically.

I am not saying it is right. Just noting the path this country could be headed toward.

its already started. unfortunately the under 45s arent well organised politically to make their voices heard.

 

[Seeds]

It never seems to be brought up, but death taxes for larger estates wouldn't be a stupid idea.

I would go further an argue death taxes for all estates. Reducing the asset test for pensions also in a way acts as death taxes in the long run.

 

[nicky]

So the family home plus 800,000 dollars and you start earning pension money? That is an extreme rort. A pension should not be earned until your combined assets including the family home are below 800,000 dollars in total. An argument coukd be made that it should be even less. If you are earning a pension you should be living in small apartments that cost 400,000 or less. The pension should be treated like any other form of welfare. Only for those who are most disadvantaged and cant live without it. I can guarantee this is what it will be like in thirty years after the baby boomers are dead. Retired people cant work now but they could of saved when they did work. If they didnt save why should they live extremely better lives in their retirement years then low income earners are now. Yes they should be comfortable as all elderly and disabled people should be treated. But they should not be able to live extravegent lives that involve regular overseas holidays as many baby boomers earning pensions are now doing. Tax payers are funding this. How would we feel if dole recipients were using their dole to go on expensive holidays to Paris and New York.

Another thing is the disparity between the dole and the pension. Centrelink has barely increased since I was at uni in the late nineties - on that you could rent share house in fitzroy or any other inner city location. There is no WAY kids could do this now unless they are being supported by wealthy parents. Not to mention uni fees going up. Life has been made more difficult for the younger generation who come from modest or poor families.

 

[Seeds]

Gee the Baby Boomers do cop it a bit.

There's this perception they're all on year long, govt sponsored holidays, sailing around the Bahamas on private yachts and sipping on pina coladas.

Sure there's people exploiting the system but there's also heaps of pensioners that are actually doing it really tough. What do people propose we do about them? Throw em out on the street? Without the pension they would be well and truly ******. Happy for that to happen?

Not every Baby Boomer hit the jackpot with enormous super funds. Nor do they all own their own homes. Many are still heavily involved in parenting roles and many have their resources tied up helping out their kids.

However, I do think that, as a rule, they were more big picture than generations after them - they were all about looking after the goose that lays the egg as opposed to nowadays where it's all about the eggs and **** the goose and I want those eggs and I want em yesterday thanks very much.

Maybe pensions do need to be looked at but surely there's bigger things to worry about it.

Only give the pension to those who need it would be a start. People living in million dollar plus homes dont need a pension. They can sell, move away from the inner cities and downsize and live off the income earned from selling their house. This also happens to help solve the housing supply issue as well.

No one is talking about putting pensioners on the streets. This will in fact provide more income to help the pensioners that truly need help and thus could enable a rise in the pension for such people.

 

[Seeds]

Another thing is the disparity between the dole and the pension. Centrelink has barely increased since I was at uni in the late nineties - on that you could rent share house in fitzroy or any other inner city location. There is no WAY kids could do this now unless they are being supported by wealthy parents. Not to mention uni fees going up. Life has been made more difficult for the younger generation who come from modest or poor families.

welfare is welfare. The pension and dole should be the same with a small adjustment for pensioners due to the fact they have immobility issues and greater health problems to pay for.

 

[Seeds]

I feel the "Baby Boomers ruined everything" comes up because bringing up the more important and diagnosable issue of "rich people are dicking not rich people" gets shouted down as class warfare, other ridiculous terms, or left-wing extremism (30-year-old Liberal voters who want the refugees to **** off don't want a bar of that). So fair frustration gets channeled into an age thing. The lazier and nefarious parts of the trash media kraken also prefer the "OLD GENERATION VS NEW GENERATION!@!@!!!!~" angle over boring economics that their proprietor may not like.

There's plenty of baby boomers who aren't swimming in it, didn't buy a house (or did and lost it at some point), and are poor. There's also a good number of baby boomers who died from health problems that would treatable if they were born decades later.

Thats denial of how our society got to the way it is and thus denies what is fair and how to fix it. Look at the history of political movements over the past 40 years in the west. Its all been driven to help a certain generation given their disproportionate voting power. Income taxes are going to sky rocket once the baby boomers are retired cos they no longer earn income and can benefit from more welfare payments. You would probably mark that as achievement to see young professional workers with no assets paying high taxes and funding society. Meanwhile the majority of baby boomers who own all the wealth will be splashing their unearned pensions on holidays.

 

[nicky]

its already started. unfortunately the under 45s arent well organised politically to make their voices heard.

too busy arguing over pedantic points rather than looking at the bigger picture.

welfare is welfare. The pension and dole should be the same with a small adjustment for pensioners due to the fact they have immobility issues and greater health problems to pay for.

Pretty sure there is about a $400 per month difference. I don't even know if I agree that the pension should be higher due to immobility issues when there are services that cater for this.

Most babyboomers i know that are on a pension own the house they're living in so that pension is essentially to pay bills and buy food. Programs like the NDIS help babyboomers and they can get other perks like half price taxis and driven to and from appointments (by a free service).

Centrelink and Austudy is far less and kids are expected to pay high rent, buy food and live off. This is just not possible. They are being stuffed over royally, even compared to my generation.

 

[Seeds]

too busy arguing over pedantic points rather than looking at the bigger picture.



Pretty sure there is about a $400 per month difference. I don't even know if I agree that the pension should be higher due to immobility issues when there are services that cater for this.

Most babyboomers i know that are on a pension own the house they're living in so that pension is essentially to pay bills and buy food. Programs like the NDIS help babyboomers and they can get other perks like half price taxis and driven to and from appointments (by a free service).

Centrelink and Austudy is far less and kids are expected to pay high rent, buy food and live off. This is just not possible. They are being stuffed over royally, even compared to my generation.

Agree that pensions should be less then the dole if pensioners own a house.