People that hand out how-to-vote cards

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Yeah, I try to be polite too even though offering the cards is kind of an insult in itself. But I do not think most of the people even handing out the cards would really get that. I doubt they really think much about it. It is not just about who you voting for. It is the concept of how to vote that is the underlying concept.

Most people doing this are not there to insult you.

As I tell all the rookies at the start of the day, election day is the voters day, and we are there to support them. If they want a HTV card, it's theirs. If they don't, the last thing we want to do is impose it on people.

I have given out non alp HTV cards to cover people having a break, directed people to the right volunteers when they want a non alp card, and helped collet for reuse non alp cards. I've also advised people what to do and who to speak to if they need support on voting outside my electorate.

For this, I get called a campaigner at least 2-3 times, sworn at multiple times beyond count, and have at least one person an election lecture me for 5mins+ on how I personally ****ed up their life. I'm a volunteer, but I wear that s**t with a polite smile and a nod because the day isn't about me, it's about them.

To say me giving you a HTV card you don't have to take is an insult is a bit much given the s**t we have to put up with
 
I know but the actual reality if you think about it, is. I'd be insulting myself to even take one. It is why I never would. Ideally people think for themselves. A lot don't, sadly.

No, it isn't. You don't have to take it, and even if you do, you don't have to follow it.

I love below the line (and number EVERY box on a senate ticket) because I choose to. I look at the HTV card as a guide, but that's it. It's up to me to make my choices.
 

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No, it isn't.
If you don't grab one then it isn't.

You don't have to take it, and even if you do, you don't have to follow it.
Of course you don't. Hence I never do. It is silly it is called a how to vote card. It should be called Party preferred voting order. It is an insult to your own education if you feel the need to pick one up as you are saying to yourself I do not know what I am doing here, even though I am standing in a line to vote. Surely any self respecting person would educate themselves of voting system before they go out to vote. Just the way I look at it. You insulting yourself or got no value on your own thinking to turn up with no idea how it works.

The fact so many take them, tells me where a lot of people are with their own thinking.....
 
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Jun 30, 2009
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I know but the actual reality if you think about it, is. I'd be insulting myself to even take one. It is why I never would. Ideally people think for themselves. A lot don't, sadly.
Seeing as a vast number of australians clearly dont understand voting esp preferential systems - i dont think its an insult.
 
If you don't grab one then it isn't.

Of course you don't. Hence I never do. It is silly it is called a how to vote card. It should be called Party preferred voting order. It is an insult to your own education if you feel the need to pick one up as you are saying to yourself I do not know what I am doing here, even though I am standing in a line to vote. Surely any self respecting person would educated themselves of voting system before they go out to vote. Just the way I look at it. You insulting yourself or got no value on your own thinking to turn up with no idea how it works.

The fact so many take them, tells me where a lot of people are with their own thinking.....

well sorry for insulting you
 

Badesumofu

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You can also fill out every number, but sadly how to vote cards are really not about how to vote in general, but how to vote for a party in way that party would like your vote. It would be a lot better if how to vote cards actually educated people on how voting system actually works. Sadly that is not what they are.

The good thing is people actually do get a choice. If the voting system was taught in schools as compulsory when kids were in late teens would be great step forward.

That's really the AEC's job to ensure people know what constitutes a formal vote and what doesn't. Party HTVs are explicitly about how to best support that party. That's just what they are. I'm not giving up hours of my own time just to educate people about the process of voting though I'll happily enter into those conversations as well. I'm there because I want my 'team' to win, because I want to see Labor's policy platform implemented.

Referring back to my earlier post, I'm not a swinging voter and currently not in a competitive electorate either. I'm just not ever going to vote Liberal. That leaves me with one way to have some impact on the politics of the nation and that's what I'm doing. Many people won't want my HTVs and if they say 'no thanks I know how I'm voting' I'll be saying 'good on you mate!'. Others will take them. Ideally there will even be a few for whom the card is an opportunity to have a conversation. There are a small proportion of voters who make their mind up when they get to the booth and a proportion of those whose vote might hinge on something a volunteer says to them.

That chance is worth a few hours of my time.
 

Badesumofu

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Actually it is each person's job, IF they value their own thinking and their own choice to educate themselves.
Emphasis on the if....

I said that in the context of a response to your statement that ideally party HTVs would be about educating voters in our electoral system. It is the AEC's job as opposed to the ALP's job. That it is also each individual voter's job to educate themselves about our electoral system should go without saying and hasn't got much to do with the discussion at hand.
 

R Chee Manning

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The people that hand out HTV cards love to profile.


I went to a pre-poll a few years ago in the back streets of Coorparoo.

It was actually more difficult and time consuming that if I'd actually gone to the local school on the day...

I was dressed in my usual black t shirt, skinny black jeans and connies... and sporting long hair... (Rohan Dean style)...

A young Greens lady tried to give me an HTV card... I politely declined... to which she looked me up and down and went 'Are you sure?'
 

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In Tassie (I think) they did away with HTV cards by having them published in the booth

the problem with this as a solution however is fairness. With scores of candidates in a senate ticket now, there just isnt enough room for every candidate who wants it displayed to have their info displayed

with regards to using an app, that may be an issue for those without smart phones, the elderly, or people with poor vision.

Personally I wish to move to electronic voting, and if you do that you could have a touch pad at the ballot box that allows you to review candidate info and preference advice
Handing out electoral material is prohibited in Tasmanian (or used to be, they probably changed it) and ACT elections with a certain distance of the entrance to a polling centre. I think 400 metres in Tasmania, and 100 metres here. It effectively does away with the things, while merely being an extension of accepted rules prohibiting electoral material on display in booths and therefore not a freedom of speech thing.
Interestingy, both jurisdictions use the slightly more complex Hare-Clark, where the cards in theory could be more help than a HoR card. Tas also uses Robson Rotation, so the candidates don't appear in the same place on everey ballot paper, limiting effectiveness of cards as well as reducing - or at least more evenly spreading - the donkey vote impact.
 
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Weird concept I have always thought to myself.
If I had no idea how to vote, I would certainly find a way to find out before voting day. I guess how to vote cards assume 99% people are too dumb to even know how to fill out a voting sheet for house of reps and the senate.

Just being offered one seems weird. Never take any as insult as implies you got no idea what you doing. Every person that takes one is to some degree accepting they are like sheep. It is way I look at it on the day, when going to polling booth.

Sad thing is they are probably right. Over 80% of people probably do not understand how the voting works,
I feel similar but then I guess there’d be those completely disengaged with politics who’d be appreciative of getting some guidance
 
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I feel similar but then I guess there’d be those completely disengaged with politics who’d be appreciative of getting some guidance

I am sure there is. Some people got no idea how voting system works, do not care and just want to give their right to think and have vote count to a party.
Party members love those types.
 
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That it is also each individual voter's job to educate themselves about our electoral system should go without saying and hasn't got much to do with the discussion at hand.
It has everything to do with discussing voting. Understanding it should be the number one discussion for people. That it is not, shows the lack of thinking about it.
 
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Northalives

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I'm giving it a go on Saturday for the first time, it should be an interesting experience.
Good onya. Just a question out of interest, you don't have to answer of course but are you doing it as a volunteer or are you being paid?

As I said, you don't have to answer and I hope my question has not offended you.
 

Northalives

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I said that in the context of a response to your statement that ideally party HTVs would be about educating voters in our electoral system. It is the AEC's job as opposed to the ALP's job. That it is also each individual voter's job to educate themselves about our electoral system should go without saying and hasn't got much to do with the discussion at hand.
When I went to school many moons ago, we were taught about how government and voting worked. I don't know if that's been re-introduce again because I believe that it disappeared from the school curriculums.
 
Noticed a heap of them yesterday gathered around the shire offices driving back from lunch. Seriously where do they find these cretinous losers? Don't these people have jobs or anything better to do?

I guess I could understand someone doing it if they were getting paid but for a major political party and for free?

What you're feeling is a mixture of privilege and selfishness.

You're privileged enough that you don't have to be as invested in it as the people who are doing HTVs.

You're selfish enough that you can't comprehend people doing something that they think will benefit others.
 
Funnily enough the HTV is becoming particularly important this time round (at least in NSW). Ructions between the Nats and the Libs means there are 3 HTVs for the Coalition in the Senate in NSW (Liberal, National, Molan). Add to the confusion that if the Nats want to hand out they may well have to pulp a huge number of their HTVs if they are totally committed to their Senate campaign.

Add to this Lisa Singh running a BTL effort in Tassie and it gets very interesting- at least for us politics nerds.
 
Good onya. Just a question out of interest, you don't have to answer of course but are you doing it as a volunteer or are you being paid?

As I said, you don't have to answer and I hope my question has not offended you.
It's all good. I'm volunteering, the AJP wanted volunteers to hand out HTV cards and I put my hand up.

I'll be there for probably 6 or 7 hours (my choice, they left it totally up to me).
 
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When I went to school many moons ago, we were taught about how government and voting worked. I don't know if that's been re-introduce again because I believe that it disappeared from the school curriculums.


I think it should be compulsory like they consider doing English classes and Maths to a certain level is a basic requirement.
 

Caesar

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People like to volunteer their time to assist with causes they believe in. Beware being rude to them. I gave a pretty cold brush-off to a blueshirt at the last State election, and it turns out that if I'd looked her in the face I'd have realised it was an acquaintance of mine. She's chipped me about it every time I've seen her since.

Most people I know who have volunteered to assist with campaigns haven't done it out of fealty to an amorphous national party. They do it because the candidate is a friend or family member, or because they have political aspirations themselves, or they are invested in particular issues, or they are affiliated with an organisation whose interests are best served by that candidate.

I certainly wouldn't characterise them as unemployed losers - the abovementioned acquaintance is a pretty successful young lawyer, and ended up securing the Liberal preselection this time around.
 
People like to volunteer their time to assist with causes they believe in. Beware being rude to them. I gave a pretty cold brush-off to a blueshirt at the last State election, and it turns out that if I'd looked her in the face I'd have realised it was an acquaintance of mine. She's chipped me about it every time I've seen her since.

Most people I know who have volunteered to assist with campaigns haven't done it out of fealty to an amorphous national party. They do it because the candidate is a friend or family member, or because they have political aspirations themselves, or they are invested in particular issues, or they are affiliated with an organisation whose interests are best served by that candidate.

I certainly wouldn't characterise them as unemployed losers - the abovementioned acquaintance is a pretty successful young lawyer, and ended up securing the Liberal preselection this time around.
Good post. The bolded would be me.
 

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