Roast People that write off KPP and rucks in their first few seasons

[rp84]

When people do this, it shows how very little they know about player development and indeed the game itself.

Have been going through the yearly cycle of canning our bigs, while making the call far too early.

Most take up until about 5-6 years in the system before they get their endurance and strength up to scratch. Also have to learn when and how to run.

The difference with development of bigs cf smalls is massive.

There are so many examples of this, with only
Very few examples of bigs that set the world
On fire initially.

Get a grip all the haters.

 

[Stamos]

All this, good thread, well deserved roast.

 

[true blue19]

Good tread and good point

 

[Buddy33]

cant stand when people do, would love to see them chuck on a guernsey and be picked at 18 or 19 to play on franklin or ruck against sandilands. pfft

 

[Franc de Borges]

Don't fully agree at all. Just because someone is tall it doesn't mean that they will definitely come good.

If someone is too slow, too short, can't kick or mark and has no idea how to use their body do they deserve to be free of criticism (and the real criticism is of the recruiting, not the player) until they are eventually delisted?

Nah, this seems like a very easy way to get people to agree with you. People are allowed to call it as they see it.

If you have an issue with someone specific being abused (and I'm assuming it's Watson or Casboult) then be honest enough to say that.

 

[rp84]

Mainly have an issue with hendo bashing. Have a fair issue with Watson bashing.

Levi has more limitations, but still has potential.

Warnock copped it. Ridiculous.

Kennedy copped it. Idiocy.

Bigs just take longer. Judge Watson at 25yo.

 

[Silvagnis]

Don't fully agree at all. Just because someone is tall it doesn't mean that they will definitely come good.

If someone is too slow, too short, can't kick or mark and has no idea how to use their body do they deserve to be free of criticism (and the real criticism is of the recruiting, not the player) until they are eventually delisted?

Nah, this seems like a very easy way to get people to agree with you. People are allowed to call it as they see it..

You are a fool if you write off a mid or flanker, let alone a tall after three games and one full pre-season. Everyone would have rated Rich higher than Yarran after two season in the AFL.

Not now.

It's harder for teenage rucks and KPP to play against men where you need muscle and endurance to compete.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Jack Riewoldt...Is it Happening Again?

Ben Reid More Athlete than Footballer

Ben Reid - I don't care what you say, he's a dud

Nathan Brown

What's happened to Nathan Brown and Ben Reid

I am not yet convinced by nathan brown!

I am curious; where do you think Nathan Brown is at in his development after 30 games?

Nathan Brown

How do you solve a problem like Nathan Brown?

Nathan Brown forward please...

Josh Kennedy Immobility.

Can everyone get off Josh Kennedy's back already?

Josh Kennedy will not show his worth again this week

Josh Kennedy? Gimme a break...

Henderson-What do we do ?

Henderson-Found his position

Henderson

How long can we carry Henderson up forward?

 

[rp84]

You're right though. It doesn't mean they will definitely come good.

It is just crazy to write them off early. The afl is full of examples
Of guys taking years to come good.

Jeez, cox was playing wafl til 25. Sandi was pox until after
25. Even cloke has taken 4-5 years to become a good player. Our Kennedy battled until last year.

It is just a plain and simple fact that sh*t canning your bigs is ludicrous so early on. It is an easy way to be a twat though.

 

[LordLucifer]

Caboult is a spud and won't make it ..............

Thee you go, hate me, slag me, villify me if you like.

At least I've got the balls to make the call now instead of many other people who prefer to keep wearing the navy-blue coloured glasses which make every player on our list an instant Brownlow medallist.

 

[T2B_]

I prefer to sit back and smirk as the chicken littles are proven wrong as the years go by. Unfortunately there will always be whipping boys, it's the way it is and the way people tend to get emotional about it, but it makes fun viewing revisiting old threads where X player gets bagged before ultimately coming good.

 

[Stamos]

Caboult is a spud and won't make it ..............

Thee you go, hate me, slag me, villify me if you like.

At least I've got the balls to make the call now instead of many other people who prefer to keep wearing the navy-blue coloured glasses which make every player on our list an instant Brownlow medallist.

Takes huge balls to slag off a kid
You were probably one of the flogs who said we should have taken Rich instead of Yarran.

I enjoy being a supporter of Carlton.
Seems like you enjoy being a fountain of negativity. Good luck with that.

 

[rp84]

Takes huge balls to slag off a kid
You were probably one of the flogs who said we should have taken Rich instead of Yarran.

I enjoy being a supporter of Carlton.
Seems like you enjoy being a fountain of negativity. Good luck with that.

Hahaha here here!

Just as a matter of interest, people might like to revisit my yarran>rich thread.

 

[Blue since 72]

Caboult is a spud and won't make it ..............

Thee you go, hate me, slag me, villify me if you like.

At least I've got the balls to make the call now instead of many other people who prefer to keep wearing the navy-blue coloured glasses which make every player on our list an instant Brownlow medallist.

You can make the call but is there really any point? We can feel good about ourselves when we make an early call and end up being proven correct but so what. The club will give everyone on the list as long as they see fit to prove themselves worthy. Everybody knows some will make it and some wont.

Not having a go at you personally as everyone is guilty of it but the downside of forums like this is the ever increasing need to ensure our every thought is known by the wider community.

Trial by social media is all consuming these days.

 

[BLue_Bloys]

What I find ridiculous is how sensitive some are on this board. If anyone dares provide an opinion not favourable of a Carlton player they are shot down immediately (non Carlton supporters have tried to engage in serious discussion to be shot down too).

The purpose of this board is to promote discussion around the club and our players, people have different opinions and not all are agreed upon. Those that aim to censor others with different views or attack their stance are often more annoying than those deliberately trolling.

This is not fairly land where everything is magical, it's a highly competitive sport that invokes a lot of passion from supporters.

If you take the Watson thread as an example I have not seen one post writing him off, what I have seen is legitimately concerned supporters questioning where he is at. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Franc de Borges]

What I find ridiculous is how sensitive some are on this board. If anyone dares provide an opinion not favourable of a Carlton player they are shot down immediately (non Carlton supporters have tried to engage in serious discussion to be shot down too).

The purpose of this board is to promote discussion around the club and our players, people have different opinions and not all are agreed upon. Those that aim to censor others with different views or attack their stance are often more annoying than those deliberately trolling.

This is not fairly land where everything is magical, it's a highly competitive sport that invokes a lot of passion from supporters.

If you take the Watson thread as an example I have not seen one post writing him off, what I have seen is legitimately concerned supporters questioning where he is at. There's nothing wrong with that.

I agree with this and I agree with The Sheik. I'd be amazed if Casboult made it, though I'd love to be proven wrong. I have serious concerns with Watson at the minute as well.

You're allowed to have an opinion.

 

[blueboy25]

It is just crazy to write them off early. The afl is full of examples
Of guys taking years to come good.

Jeez, cox was playing wafl til 25. Sandi was pox until after
25. Even cloke has taken 4-5 years to become a good player. Our Kennedy battled until last year.

Cox was AA and a premiership player the year he turned 25 and was a regular since 2001 at age 20
Sandilands has been a regular since he was 21 and AA at 25.
Cloke won a B & F at 20

Not the best of examples.

 

[thylacine60]

Saw Mitchell in civvies at Coburg. Damn he's a lump of a kid. Please, please, please ....

 

[Beloved]

Just on key position forwards, I'm going to have some fun with this.

Fun fact, out of Jonathan Brown, Matthew Pavlich, Travis Cloke, Lance Franklin and Jarryd Roughead, only one of them averaged over a goal a game in their first season, and that was Lance Franklin who kicked 21 goals from 20 games.

You can add Nick Riewoldt, Barry Hall, Josh Kennedy and Kurt Tippett to that list. Most of those names had pretty average second seasons too, some with average third seasons. I could most certainly go on?

 

[BicBoi]

Dont mean to invade and derail, but as stated above rich vs yarran. Are you Blues fans all really happy with yarran over rich. TBH rich has shown much much more and dont see how you can put yarran so far ahead.

 

[BicBoi]

Yarran has it relatively easy playing off a hbf for a top 4 team, while rich grinds away getting tagged for a bottom 4 team. If they swapped teams rich would be regarder a better player because for the level of ability they have shown is equal and rich being a in a lower team further enhances his potential when he has quality around him

 

[BLue_Bloys]

Yarran has it relatively easy playing off a hbf for a top 4 team, while rich grinds away getting tagged for a bottom 4 team. If they swapped teams rich would be regarder a better player because for the level of ability they have shown is equal and rich being a in a lower team further enhances his potential when he has quality around him

That may be so, but 95% of us would take Yarran still

 

[Beloved]

Yarran has it relatively easy playing off a hbf for a top 4 team, while rich grinds away getting tagged for a bottom 4 team. If they swapped teams rich would be regarder a better player because for the level of ability they have shown is equal and rich being a in a lower team further enhances his potential when he has quality around him

There is so, so much wrong with this post.

Firstly, Yarran doesn't roam free on the flank picking up cheap possessions as you seem to think he does. He is a small, rebounding defender, which involves winning the football at ground level and taking off. If you think this is an easy job then by all means, show me your silky skills.

Daniel Rich won the Rising Star award in 2009, which was the last time Brisbane made the finals. Since then, he has made no improvement (if anything he has gone backwards) and as the Lions' seasonal performances have dropped, as have his personal performances.

In Yarran's first season, he played 6 games in a side that managed to make the finals for the first time in eight years. In his second season, he kicked 19 goals as a small forward in the same team as Eddie Betts and Jeff Garlett, where he gained a reputation for chasing and tackling.

In 2011, in comparison to 2010, Yarran picked up 222 more disposals, 23 more tackles, 21 more marks and still managed to kick 8 goals (granted, he did play more games in 2011 than in 2010). Now please try and think about this for a moment - Yarran as a forward is a target, the ball is coming to him. To be able to get that many more disposals and that many more marks as a player trying to win the football against the opposition rather than having it be put down his throat, he is certainly doing something right.

So take your pick - do you want the guy coasting along in a side that is stagnant, or the lively ball magnet that has contributed to the team's improvement?

 

[TerryWallet]

Should people still be saying Mitch Thorp and Beau Dowler and Jesse White etc etc are on the verge of making it big?

For every KPP who comes good with time, there are several who never make it.

AFL is elite sport.

Usually, but not always, you know fairly early whether a player will make it.

 

[Silvagnis]

Are you comparing Watson to two players who were delisted?

And a late pick?

Back the recruiters who aren't picking them based on a whim and considering needs alone.

Dont mean to invade and derail, but as stated above rich vs yarran. Are you Blues fans all really happy with yarran over rich. TBH rich has shown much much more and dont see how you can put yarran so far ahead.

Unlike Redden, Rockliff, Robinson and Yarran, Rich hasn't improved a lot since his first year.

Yarran has a higher ceiling.

Yarran torched North last year.

[YOUTUBE]CV3i2UA5NkI[/YOUTUBE]

Yarran has it relatively easy playing off a hbf for a top 4 team, while rich grinds away getting tagged for a bottom 4 team. If they swapped teams rich would be regarder a better player because for the level of ability they have shown is equal and rich being a in a lower team further enhances his potential when he has quality around him

Grinds away is right.

Yarran would be good in any side.

 

[PP34]

I do agree in most cases specifically with key position players who have big expectations from people.

The AFL is different from any form of footy a first year player has played in the past. They have to learn how to use their body, gain an advantage on their opponent and the different game styles of the league etc. This is not an easy thing for key position players to do.

Only the freakishly talented key position players slot right in and dominate from the start. I think you'd still struggle to find many who have done this though.

Midfielders develop much faster because generally unless they're in a really horrible team they're going to get open space to work with at first. Being a ball magnet midfielder in the AFL is much tougher than being a tall marking forward or a lock down defender.

Big players take time and no this isn't to say that every key position player is going to be a gun. There's always going to be duds.