Politics Perfidious Albion - The Crimes of The English Empire known as "the United Kingdom"

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Pessimistic

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In Ireland:

1554-1609 - the plantations (Laois/Offaly, Munster & Ulster), where native Gaelic Catholics were ethnically cleansed and replaced by Protestant settlers from Scotland and England. The plantation of Ulster was the root of the current and historic troubles in NI.

1649 - 1661 - Cromwell's invasion of Ireland, nearly half a million died of famine after a concerted campaign to kill the country's livestock (Gaelic Ireland was a pastoral society), mass dispossession of land in all counties and provinces, soldiers and clergy who served the Confederate forces (a royalist Irish entity which was essentially independent from 1641 in all but name) rounded up and exiled or deported as indentured servants to the Caribbean.

17th Century - the Gaelic lordships were gradually dispossessed, resulting in lasting damage to Gaelic culture. Much like other medieval aristocracy they supported the cultural elite of Gaelic Ireland, the poets, judges and academics who were shut out and whose knowledge was lost. This played a key role in the later demise of the Irish language, reducing its prestige and rendering it vulnerable to demographic shock among its key speakers, the poorest farmers and landless labourers of the western seaboard.

1688-1691 - the Williamite Wars of British succession fought in Ireland, Irish Catholics sided with James, when the war was lost after the battle of Aughrim they were promised religious freedoms under the Treaty of Limerick. These were reneged upon and Catholics were denied all civil rights, forced to pay tithes to the established Church of Ireland and if they owned land it had to be divided equally between all sons on death, which had the effect of reducing much of the population to paupership and beginning the country's dietary dependence upon potatoes, the only crop that could provide a suitable return on the small holdings that were the norm for Catholics.

1740-1741 Year of the Slaughter, 38% of the Irish population die in a severe famine, grain exports continue to Britain despite the mass casualties.

1798 An alliance of Irish Catholics and Presbyterians supported by Napoleons forces rise in rebellion against British rule. The rebellion is crushed, with upwards of 100,000 killed in a frenzy of retribution by Crown forces. The devolved parliament is bribed and coerced into voting for the Act of Union between Britain and Ireland, making the country officially part of the UK.

1845-1851 An Gorta Mór, the great famine. Approx. 2 million die of starvation and a further 2 million emigrate. Despite the starvation cattle and grain continue to be exported from Ireland, with the military engaged to provide escort for the food wagons and herds as they're take to the docks. Massive cultural damage is caused on top of the human tragedy, the vast majority of the affected are Irish speakers from Western seaboard counties, their numbers suffer a precipitous collapse and the language begins its death spiral.

1886 In a bid to secure political points at the expense of the Liberal Party, Randolph Churchill (Winstons father) cultivates sectarian and Unionist votes in Ulster. This leads to the revival of the Orange Order.

1911-1914 Irish voters hold the balance of power in Westminster through their Home Rule Party, who agitate for a form of devolution. The House of Lords blocks passage of a Home Rule bill by the Commons for three years, while the Conservative party support the UVF, an illegal militia, to rearm and threaten military action against any Home Rule government. The British military in Ireland refuses to take action against the importation of arms by the UVF, threatening to remain in barracks if ordered to disarm them. Irish nationalists form the Irish Volunteers in response to the UVF, their small time efforts to import arms are met with the full force of the law, with civilians shot dead by troops in Dublin frustrated at their inability to intercept a shipment.

1916 At Easter 1916, a small group of nationalists launch a rebellion in Dublin, proclaiming the Irish Republic and occupying the city centre. Rising was crushed and the leaders were executed. This lead to a groundswell of sympathy and support for Sinn Fein, who weren't involved in planning the Rising but were it's primary beneficiaries.

1919-1921 Despite a 75% vote for independence from the UK, Irish MPs for Sinn Fein are rounded up and gaoled ones the Defence Of the Realm Act. Irish republicans engage in guerrilla warfare against Crown forces, with atrocities committed against civilians by the Black & Tans, a British auxiliary police force. In Ulster the UVF is armed and dragooned into action against the Catholic community, killing hundreds and expelling tens of thousands from the province. After Bloody Sunday the British government realise Ireland is becoming ungovernable and declare a truce with the leadership of the IRA, leading to a peace treaty. Partition is enshrined in this Treaty, leading to a civil war in Ireland between pro and anti Treaty forces.

A long sorry history and that's before we even talk about the current issues with Brexit or the Troubles. Cultural genocide and slaughter without being over dramatic.
If you want to see a clolonai society which never moved on take a look at the Northern Ireland protestants. Mass denial of the realities of time marching forward
 

The_Reaper

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Empire is of itself brutal and oppressive.

The British were brutal and opprssive, but not quite as bad as the Spanish or the French. The Belgians probably take the prize for most bastardly empire campaigners. I don't know enough about the Germans or the Dutch.
None of the above. The Japanese take number 1 in that regard.
 

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Thegibbsgamble

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Know so much about this subject. Could take Days answering contributions. What I will add is a morrocon Muslim handed me a joint late at nite after a few drinks and told me the best three places in the world are canada. New Zealand and Australia. He said they're all British

he's been to them all
 

Bomberboyokay

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In 1920, with the Anglo-Irish war raging, Westminster belatedly sought to introduce Irish home rule. The Government of Ireland Act essentially provided for two home rule parliaments, one in Dublin and one in Belfast. Six of Ireland’s 32 counties became Northern Ireland, with the old county boundaries serving as the border between the two states.

From the beginning, the line of partition was arbitrary. Most of the county lines in Ulster were drawn up in the early 1600s. Using county borders to form the basis of the boundary meant that several nationalist and unionist communities got left on the “wrong side” of the line.

This issue came to a head during the Anglo-Irish Treaty negotiations in 1921. Once they accepted that some form of partition was inevitable, Sinn Féin representatives pressed for clarification about where exactly the border between the Irish Free State and Northern Ireland would lie.

[...]

In the early 1920s, the British government adopted an even more duplicitous stance, assuring nationalists in Dublin that the border of 1920 would be drastically revised, while promising unionists in Belfast that the frontier would remain unchanged.

The outbreak of the Irish civil war meant that the boundary commission to redraw the border did not convene until 1924. Initially, the commission was to include three members, representing the Dublin, Belfast and London governments respectively. But Northern Ireland refused to appoint a representative. Why would it? Unionists had already been assured that the border would not change. In the end, the Labour government in Westminster had to choose Northern Ireland’s commissioner.

In Dublin, there was considerable confidence that the boundary commission would transfer large parts of Northern Ireland that had nationalist majorities to the Free State. But in 1925, the conclusions of the boundary commission were leaked. These revealed that the proposed changes to the border would be minimal and that some territory in Donegal would transfer to Stormont rule.

The loss of a portion of Donegal was too much of a humiliation for the Free State government to take, and it struck a deal with Westminster to suppress the commission’s report. In return for the cancellation of the imperial debt that the Free State had agreed to pay in 1921, the border remained unchanged. But the feeling lingered in Ireland that “perfidious Albion” had tricked the Free State into accepting a borderline it did not want.

In the long term, this border was problematic. In making Northern Ireland, unionists had sought as big a hinterland for Belfast as possible, to create an economically viable state, while ensuring that the nationalist population trapped in its borders would not be large enough to challenge unionists in elections. This approach resulted in counties with nationalist majorities, Fermanagh and Tyrone, being included in Northern Ireland. The resentment and tension that this created was to eventually reap a terrible harvest in 1969.

Had the British government taken direct responsibility for drawing the border in 1921 and sought to respect the wishes of local communities regarding which state they wanted to join, it is quite possible that the Troubles would never have broken out. A reduced Northern Ireland with an overwhelming unionist majority would have had nothing to fear from its small nationalist population. It may have treated this minority with the tolerance and fairness that the six-county state failed to do, thereby removing the root cause of the Northern Irish conflict.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/29/ireland-brexit-northern-ireland-border
 

medusala

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If you want to see a clolonai society which never moved on take a look at the Northern Ireland protestants. Mass denial of the realities of time marching forward
lol. Ireland still has issues re abortions and contraception was banned in recent memory. Its the papists stuck in the dark ages old boy.

NB cant you blame Jeff Kennett Thatcher ?​
 

medusala

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Fwiw I’m not sectarian. A pox on both your houses
The orange order do themselves no favour with their stupid marches. Everyone knows the papists lost. No need to have a march to remind us.

Odd thing is that I have never met an Irishman who professes to give a stuff about NI. They all say ie ones i have spoken to, its a mess that they want nothing to do with. The biggest pro IRA voices i come across are always Australians or Americans of Irish descent.

I would even suggest that the Scots are probably more anti English than the Irish are (well half of them anyway).
 

Pessimistic

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The orange order do themselves no favour with their stupid marches. Everyone knows the papists lost. No need to have a march to remind us.

Odd thing is that I have never met an Irishman who professes to give a stuff about NI. They all say ie ones i have spoken to, its a mess that they want nothing to do with. The biggest pro IRA voices i come across are always Australians or Americans of Irish descent.

I would even suggest that the Scots are probably more anti English than the Irish are (well half of them anyway).
This may be out of order but I reckon in general Scots learn racism with their mothers milk. Its primarily anti english but a transferrable skill. It a chip similar to the South Austrlianss which Victorians are Meh about

Neil Oliver made a documentary where the early movers of KKK were Scottish born
 

medusala

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This may be out of order but I reckon in general Scots learn racism with their mothers milk.
Pess

I think you are on to something. I have a Scottish grand mother and very scottish middle name ie rare scottish name, i have been bought drinks in Edibnburgh simply on basis of my drivers licence proving my name. Sounds ridiculous i know but greatest bigotry i have ever seen is in Scotland (and in Edindburgh, the posh bit) vs the English
 

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Pessimistic

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This is an excellent piece demolishing the myths of Britain in 1940

https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2018/02/not-their-finest-hour
I'm pretty sure more than a few back then would have seen the irony in being saved from a racist superpower by another equally racist superpower

(I suppose the second one speaks the same language)

and the level of surveillance, intrusion in personal affairs, cold blooded murder of individuals (terrorist targets) by flying technology we have today was beyond both Hitlers (and later the stasis) wildest dreams
 

Pessimistic

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I got three things out of the darkest hour. The historical innaccuracies were pretty obvious

1. How bad they had screwed up to need a renegade like Churchill back in charge. Understated was the appetite for appeasement in the English titled classes. The reichs dark side wasn't quite so abhorrent to them in 1940 as it seems now
2. How well he negotiated a political minefield on gut instinct (which had let him down so badly in the past)
3. The sheer audacity of the dunkirk operation which was successful beyond anyones wildest dreams
 

Proud SJW

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This is an excellent piece demolishing the myths of Britain in 1940

https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2018/02/not-their-finest-hour
Actually, that's a terrible article.
The title itself is a quote used (by Churchill himself) with reference to the RAAF during the Battle of Britain, but the article has nothing to say about the people, and talks only about about the politicians. Change the title, for a start. It's misappropriation, and not a particularly clever one.

As for the rest, it appears to mostly be a rant about how boring the author found the movie (I haven't seen it, other than a particularly good little segment on youtube showing a dogfight between some Spitfires and ME109's, so I wouldn't know) which is... well, largely irrelevant. I find lots of movies boring, but movies don't in any way form my historical attitudes, as apparently they do the authors.
Oh, and how he didn't like the casting of Gary Oldman as Churchill. Mr Oldman is actually one of my favourite actors, but again having not seen the film I'm loathe to comment. But I'm not sure what this has to do with debunking myths.
Churchill was known to have "ducked out" for hours sometimes to find out what people were thinking down on the streets. Riding the Underground making speeches, however, probably not. But then William Wallace screaming about "freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom" while being drawn and quartered was also quite cringeworthy (if not more so), so... whatever. It's a movie.
That Churchill could be a bit of a prat is not exactly news. But so what?

So why don't you elaborate then, for the sake of your integrity, exactly what this little anti-Churchill rant has to do with reality or what myths it is supposed to debunk?
 

Bomberboyokay

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But then William Wallace screaming about "freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom" while being drawn and quartered was also quite cringeworthy (if not more so), so... whatever. It's a movie.
People don't think Braveheart is real life. Mel Gibson on the DVD commentary was very open about making sh*t up.
 

Proud SJW

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A lot of "people" actually do, unfortunately.

Mostly because a lot of people who see it aren't interested in history enough to actually read for themselves, nor do they possess the capability for detailed analysis. They'll watch a movie and think they know something.
I have to admit though that that dogfight scene I watched on Youtube from "Dunkirk" was actually very good. I may even watch the movie now, on the strength of that alone.

The question was, why does whoever posted that article actually think it's good or relevent?
It was a complaint piece about the choice of actor to play Churchill and about how he thought Dunkirk was a boring movie.
Oh, and the author "knows what really happened". So... yeah.
There's historical comment for you.
 

medusala

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This is an excellent piece demolishing the myths of Britain in 1940

https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2018/02/not-their-finest-hour
Pity its bollocks. Try James Holland War in the West for a good comparison re materiel of both sides.

Actually, that's a terrible article.
The title itself is a quote used (by Churchill himself) with reference to the RAAF during the Battle of Britain, but the article has nothing to say about the people, and talks only about about the politicians. Change the title, for a start. It's misappropriation, and not a particularly clever one.
This.
 

MaddAdam

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LOL, Charles Moore, former Telegraph editor, Thatcher biography, toadling of empire par excellence, provides the ultimate in English arrogance here.

Writing about Brexit, Ireland, the EU and the border he says:

If the representative of a foreign power (or powers) says that your country should be split for the greater convenience of that power (or powers), your reaction, if you are a normal person, is to get angry.
Yes, the Irish did seem to get angry about the Brits splitting their country up for their own convenience.

This stuff is bing moggling because they actually believe it. They genuinely think they are in the right.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...would-get-angry-europes-high-handed-attitude/
 

Proud SJW

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Because it is stupid. Whether you agree with Northern Ireland being a part of the UK or not (which is not as simple an argument as you appear to think it is), Europe has less of a right to determine Ireland's status than even England does.

WTF is "bing moggling"?
 

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