Analysis Perspective

[Gavin Excell]

To quote David St Hubbins from Spinal Tap - "too much f...ng perspective"

Think now may be the time to make the hard decisions on some of the senior players and invest time and patience in youth

 

[Gavin Excell]

I agree with your first sentence but not your second. I wasn't disappointed, I was actually surprised at how close they got in the end.

I hope the close result doesn't fool people into believing that we're only a little tweak here and a little tweak there away from genuinely being in contention again. It wouldn't be the first side it's happened to.

A belting may have been more beneficially in the long run.

Playing in 10 finals series in the last 11 with 3 flags has been awesome but all those extra games looks like it's really taken its toll on the older players.

As good as they've been for us, as much joy as they've given us, the club really needs to make some hard decisions this off season. Hopefully the players save everyone the heartache and make if for themselves.

well put. Agree with everything said.
Are you thinking Kelly? anyone else?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

U can't be serious. Who do you propose will take there spots, better who has shown they can take there spots. Who will the young kids look to and learn off. Yeah just retire them mid season and when the injuries hit what do we do then!!!! NFI

We don't know who has shown enough because they don't get games or if they do, they don't get enough.

As for who will the kids learn off? How about their Captain, if a youngster can't learn anything from Joel then they're not trying hard enough. It's not like retiring older players is going to leave us with a team of 21 year olds like Melbourne of a few years ago.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Not a very good thing to say Alk considering we lost the semi last night if we're playing all these veterans what makes you think we'll even get past an elimination next year? Especially when the competition around us is getting better?

We won't make it past a EF with this gameplan we run anyway, it's garbage in finals. In another thread, I mentioned until end of last year, we had a list that can win the flag. This year we don't.

If we run kids we won't make the 8 either, they aren't good enough. I said at the end of last week, if we do that (playing all kids), then mine as well go after a high draft pick by finishing bottom 10, but people on here had a fit.

Reality is that some of the kids on our list aren't ever going to be anything as much as people want them to be. If we conduct a full rebuild that means bottoming out, no finals and get the best picks to either draft or trade for mature talent so we can rise faster. Get rid of the oldies and begin a new.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

well put. Agree with everything said.
Are you thinking Kelly? anyone else?

I think it might be easier to say who I would definitely keep and then say that everyone else is up for debate.

Selwood
Hawkins
Caddy
Walker
Blicavs
SJ
Harry
Rivers
Motlop
Duncan
Christensen (if his body holds up and he stops getting knocked out)
Guthrie
McCarthy

The massive problem is the rucks. McIntosh can go, I don't know where Simpson is at. Last season he showed enough to me to think that, imo, he was going to be in the very top tier of ruckmen in the league then got injured and wasn't close this season to what I saw last. They need someone genuine in the ruck, not undersized pinch hitters. I'd hate to see Walker wasted in there because I think he can offer the team much more in the forward line.

 

[Rainfall]

We won't make it past a EF with this gameplan we run anyway, it's garbage in finals. In another thread, I mentioned until end of last year, we had a list that can win the flag. This year we don't.

If we run kids we won't make the 8 either, they aren't good enough. I said at the end of last week, if we do that (playing all kids), then mine as well go after a high draft pick by finishing bottom 10, but people on here had a fit.

Reality is that some of the kids on our list aren't ever going to be anything as much as people want them to be. If we conduct a full rebuild that means bottoming out, no finals and get the best picks to either draft or trade for mature talent so we can rise faster. Get rid of the oldies and begin a new.

We should be getting rid of the oldies anyway. I'm all in for a top 10 pick because after 2015 we'd only have one left in our side (Selwood) we've only had 5 in 17 years but I don't understand how everyone also thinks we're going to get Frawley, SSelwood and Dangerfield?

Anybody who believes we will make it past an EF next year is kidding themselves. Top 8 will probably be the same except Gold Coast in it

 

[dazbroncos]

Agree with you on Kelly- early this season he was being praised as an important part of the backline, after being moved out of the midfield. It was as if he'd been reinvigorated. Suddenly, after a few late-season losses- and the missed finals opportunities certainly rip the guts out of us- everyone has turned on him and calling for his head! (Or, at the very least, his retirement!)
Perhaps the club's player management is at fault here- or perhaps him being cooked is a direct result of injuries to other players, i.e. he's been required to play more games than he should've played this season. What a shame the MC didn't get more games into Bews this season, perhaps giving Kelly a bit more relief and keeping him fresh for finals.
Or maybe if we'd played Bews instead, we'd have lost games that we actually won during the year and we'd have been in the bottom half of the 8 anyway.
Who knows? Nothing we can do to change things now but I hope the MC go back and add up all the mistakes they made this year and, hopefully, come up with a better plan next season.

I don't think Kelly's issues are related just to him however. Its structural and bigger than one guy. He is not nor has ever been the fastest guy yet they gave him Thomas as a match up. That to me is a self created mis match in a game where mismatches lose games or moments in games.

Our back 6 relies more than any other on players assisting others and dropping off and covering their match ups. That means the MF must be going both ways and supporting the back 6 by getting back and pushing hard to cover them. Selwood does it but with such a young MF it jus has not been happening of late. Add to that the up and downs of HT, Domsy ( not as much) and even the most argent player, as in Kelly and to a lesser extent Boris, give the appearance on inefficiency.

You want to blame individuals fine, but recognise the other faults as well.

Go Catters

 

[Rainfall]

Had a Hawks supporting mate on FB complaining about people saying we're rebuilding, and said we still have 10 players who played in '08, and they only had 7. Just had a look who's missing from both sides:

Geelong - Ablett, Blake, Chapman, Corey, Harley, Hunt, Ling, Milburn, Mooney, Ottens, Rooke, Scarlett.
Hawthorn - Bateman, Brown, Campbell, Crawford, Croad, Dew, Ellis, Franklin, Gilham, Guerra, Ladson, Osborne, Renouf, Williams and Young.

I think I know which list is the more talented...

Excl. Harley and I'd say all are talented. One thing I've noticed about him during commentary this year, he is BT's lap dog.

 

[Teriyakicat]

I don't think Kelly's issues are related just to him however. Its structural and bigger than one guy. He is not nor has ever been the fastest guy yet they gave him Thomas as a match up. That to me is a self created mis match in a game where mismatches lose games or moments in games.

Our back 6 relies more than any other on players assisting others and dropping off and covering their match ups. That means the MF must be going both ways and supporting the back 6 by getting back and pushing hard to cover them. Selwood does it but with such a young MF it jus has not been happening of late. Add to that the up and downs of HT, Domsy ( not as much) and even the most argent player, as in Kelly and to a lesser extent Boris, give the appearance on inefficiency.

You want to blame individuals fine, but recognise the other faults as well.

Go Catters

I certainly recognise that the backline was all over the shop last night. I think I was responding re Kelly, not singling him out for blame- apologies if that was the impression you got from my post.
Usually we blame the backline problems on the poor midfield and the speed of the incoming ball- which is often the case- but last night there were skill errors everywhere.
Harry, I thought, was poor right up until the middle of the year- then was suddenly in AA contention and surprisingly to me, only had 1(?) goal kicked on him all year, or something. He had the fumbles last night. Didn't seem to hold the ball at all cleanly on a number if occasions.
Mackie- seems to have swallowed a can of "Can't give a FRA"- one of his kickouts resulted in the ball coming right back over his head.
My list of poor skills and poor decisions made last night is a mile long and not just restricted to the backline.

 

[Pollywaffle]

The real perspective is we were fraudulent as a top 4 side this year, in reality we are only marginally better than Richmond. The Cats were very very disappointing tonight.

Too true. I wasn't as busted up about losing last night as I would have been in previous years as I thought our relative position on the ladder flattered us in the end.
Arguably, with a full deck we might have beaten North but Sydney, the Hawks, or Freo would have torn us up on the bigger stage.
Better to be put out of our misery early and give anyone who deludes themselves otherwise a reality check.
Plenty of positives still to be taken though..Some work yet to be done.

 

[Pollywaffle]

Had a Hawks supporting mate on FB complaining about people saying we're rebuilding, and said we still have 10 players who played in '08, and they only had 7. Just had a look who's missing from both sides:

Geelong - Ablett, Blake, Chapman, Corey, Harley, Hunt, Ling, Milburn, Mooney, Ottens, Rooke, Scarlett.
Hawthorn - Bateman, Brown, Campbell, Crawford, Croad, Dew, Ellis, Franklin, Gilham, Guerra, Ladson, Osborne, Renouf, Williams and Young.

I think I know which list is the more talented...

you forgot Byrnes ( and Wojo)

 

[Turbocat]

Perspective: Glass half full / glass half empty

Half full .. In rebuild , make top 4 thur winning close game, young kids that look good
Half empty... too many close games , no fit enough? , not talented enough in the midfield especially ruck consequence of poor recruitment.

WE need to clear choose now. The transition while being up there is show to be able to be done but not while you are winning it. Does this make transition longer and more painful or is it time to bite the bullet , take the pain by getting quick 50 into players like JJ and Lang and yes Hartman

Do we just persist with who we have and just get add more top end picks , or do we go get some strong guys to help. Some high end class. I believe its changed. The way we built last time is even hard to do now. Its a gun war and we are shooting water pistols.

Choices must be made and be made clear. Stop selling us Ferrari and delivering Fiesta. All of us will get on board imo , if its 2 years of hard stuff so be it. 3 Flags earns that , just no more muddling of the messages.

 

[franjon]

If you finish in the 4 you deserve to be there, but the fact we got there was remarkable.

I remember thinking the same thing about us in 1997 and probably '79 although that went haywire. People are waiting for Geelong to fall but it's not going to happen. They may not be the unbeatables any more but they're not going to fall away. There are too many professional people in the right areas (ala drafting/recruiting) to allow that to happen.

 

[franjon]

I also think there is a steely resolve about Geelong that didn't exist in the past couple of decades. They will be there again next year, watch.

 

[Pollywaffle]

Stop selling us Ferrari and delivering Fiesta.

Too true . We get enough of that from politicians...

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Couldnt care less about perspective right now. Straight sets exit. That's all anyone remembers.

 

[Scottland2007]

Couldnt care less about perspective right now. Straight sets exit. That's all anyone remembers.

Disagree, if Sydney belted us by 100 points next week, that would be on the back of there victory pack at jbhifi for decades. Would take straight set losses over that. (if Sydney win the flag).

 

[Turbocat]

I remember thinking the same thing about us in 1997 and probably '79 although that went haywire. People are waiting for Geelong to fall but it's not going to happen. They may not be the unbeatables any more but they're not going to fall away. There are too many professional people in the right areas (ala drafting/recruiting) to allow that to happen.

Nice thoughts..... After having decade's being around the mark , we finally had an ear that was aspirational. Coming out of that era , is now a difficult time. I'm not sure that being 4-8 will really quell to many supporters. The clubs will have to show a new level of professionalism in telling us what they are planning . I dont want to just drink the Kool Aid and believe in false deities . We are bringing in the kids and they need games for sure , but winning 1 final in 6 finals in the last 3 years doesn't sit well. But good is not great.

The next month will tell us a bit . We need to get better , we need to add quality and listening to the players after game this one has hurt.

 

[Partridge]

Nice thoughts..... After having decade's being around the mark , we finally had an ear that was aspirational. Coming out of that era , is now a difficult time. I'm not sure that being 4-8 will really quell to many supporters. The clubs will have to show a new level of professionalism in telling us what they are planning . I dont want to just drink the Kool Aid and believe in false deities . We are bringing in the kids and they need games for sure , but winning 1 final in 6 finals in the last 3 years doesn't sit well. But good is not great.

The next month will tell us a bit . We need to get better , we need to add quality and listening to the players after game this one has hurt.

I'll save you the trouble:

1. Any or all of Stringer, Cowan, Taylor Hunt, Brown, Smedts, and Schroder will be delisted, traded, or will walk. Sheringham will be gone from the rookie list.
2. All of Menzel, Vardy, McIntosh, Simpson (and probably Cowan) will be kept, and talked up as being best 22.
3. Vardy will be picked ahead of Walker.
4. All of the veterans will remain, and all will play Round 1 next year barring injury (as in really injured; moderately injured means they'll play with it).

 

[speedybundy]

I'll save you the trouble:

1. Any or all of Stringer, Cowan, Taylor Hunt, Brown, Smedts, and Schroder will be delisted, traded, or will walk. Sheringham will be gone from the rookie list.
2. All of Menzel, Vardy, McIntosh, Simpson (and probably Cowan) will be kept, and talked up as being best 22.
3. Vardy will be picked ahead of Walker.
4. All of the veterans will remain, and all will play Round 1 next year barring injury (as in really injured; moderately injured means they'll play with it).

Come on, you really think will risk making injuries worst in round 1? we have no history of doing that during the H&A season.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

I think it might be easier to say who I would definitely keep and then say that everyone else is up for debate.

Selwood
Hawkins
Caddy
Walker
Blicavs
SJ
Harry
Rivers
Motlop
Duncan
Christensen (if his body holds up and he stops getting knocked out)
Guthrie
McCarthy

The massive problem is the rucks. McIntosh can go, I don't know where Simpson is at. Last season he showed enough to me to think that, imo, he was going to be in the very top tier of ruckmen in the league then got injured and wasn't close this season to what I saw last. They need someone genuine in the ruck, not undersized pinch hitters. I'd hate to see Walker wasted in there because I think he can offer the team much more in the forward line.

Maybe go a step further.

Build the side for it's next flag tilt around Selwood, Hawkins, Motlop, Duncan, Guthrie, Blicavs, Caddy, Walker and Frawley if they get him,

Selwood, Frawley and Hawkins being the oldest of that lot. They'll all turn 27 next year so that gives a window of say, 3 to 5 years, they have to start building it now.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

No supporter can complain - considering the success Geelong has achieved

However its interesting what approach the club takes - i cant see a Premiership in the next 3 years - no way- this apparent re- build in some supporters eyes -is just fools gold to me

Geelong need about 2 or 3 really quick midfielders- the team looks old tired and slow - they can keep the status quo ( and not fall off a cliff - like Saints and dogs) - and finish 7th to 8th for the next couple of years - but in affect go no- where

Or they can get ruthless ( and suffer some real pain for 2-3 years ) Kellys finished - and could be told that - ditto -Johnsons injury prone - even Enright who is still playing quite well - whats the use of playing another year - when Geelong are no chance to win the flag next year

Premierships are the name of the game - thus id rather a ruthless approach- and get a bit of youth into the team

You look at Pt Adelaide - their young - and look how they run - compare that to Geelong - the Cats are like Dads Army - footy nous against the ordinary teams - got Geelong wins this year - however its not going to win Premierships- thus time for some really tough decisions to be made

 

[PeelnThunder]

Let's lick our wounds, thank God we dont support StKilda or Fremantle and look forward to next year.

What? Why

 

[The rabbi]

What? Why

I think that he is suggesting that your trophy cabinet is bare.

 

[Scottland2007]

No supporter can complain - considering the success Geelong has achieved

However its interesting what approach the club takes - i cant see a Premiership in the next 3 years - no way- this apparent re- build in some supporters eyes -is just fools gold to me

Geelong need about 2 or 3 really quick midfielders- the team looks old tired and slow - they can keep the status quo ( and not fall off a cliff - like Saints and dogs) - and finish 7th to 8th for the next couple of years - but in affect go no- where

Or they can get ruthless ( and suffer some real pain for 2-3 years ) Kellys finished - and could be told that - ditto -Johnsons injury prone - even Enright who is still playing quite well - whats the use of playing another year - when Geelong are no chance to win the flag next year

Premierships are the name of the game - thus id rather a ruthless approach- and get a bit of youth into the team

You look at Pt Adelaide - their young - and look how they run - compare that to Geelong - the Cats are like Dads Army - footy nous against the ordinary teams - got Geelong wins this year - however its not going to win Premierships- thus time for some really tough decisions to be made

Disagree on Enright. We won't win the flag in the next 4 years, so get him to 300. A). It gives the supporters something to look forward to in what could be a bleak year. B). The club can make badges and Memorabelia and make some money.