Analysis Perspective

[Rainfall]

Kids need to be up to it and also earn the opportunity, don't think we had many left considering we had 10 under 23 years tonight. So who tell me who takes there spot?

Bews, Thurlow to rotate 11 games with Enright and Kelly next year for starters because it seems we won't be losing a best 22 player unless we get rid of Varcoe

 

[Supercats]

Bews, Thurlow to rotate 11 games with Enright and Kelly next year for starters because it seems we won't be losing a best 22 player unless we get rid of Varcoe

Don't disagree there, as long as form dictates and that goes both ways. Thought Thurlow should have had more of run this year anyway.

 

[Rainfall]

Don't disagree there, as long as form dictates and that goes both ways. Thought Thurlow should have had more of run this year anyway.

If honest we probably should lose SJ to a coaching role this year, Enright due to age, Kelly cause he's past it and Lonergan for the sake of it. May be very brutally harsh calls but all 4 would be out the door next year with the likes of Rivers, Bartel so why not just go half/half and cut 3 this year.

 

[Supercats]

If honest we probably should lose SJ to a coaching role this year, Enright due to age, Kelly cause he's past it and Lonergan for the sake of it. May be very brutally harsh calls but all 4 would be out the door next year with the likes of Rivers, Bartel so why not just go half/half and cut 3 this year.

SJ good call, think the body is shot. Kelly was poor in second half of the season, but I think was being played out of position and CS should have thrown him forward or back onto the ball to give him some confidence. Don't forget in past years he has been one of our best tacklers and hurt the opposition in the tackle. Something we lacked this year. Could go either way, but still has to earn games with good form.

Enright we have to get to 300 games, we don't have many of them, and from the performances we have seen from the older players this last fortnight, don't think anyone else is chance to do it.

Lonergan could be AA if you believe what you read and will give us the option to move Harry forward next year. Also don't think we have Key Back to take his spot unless hamming had greatly improved.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Mate, 3 flags since 07!!!!!!!! Best you find a new team to support.

Just a troll who appears after a loss- like snails after the rain. As reliable as clockwork.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Kelly was terrific up until about the halfway mark of the season. His form then began to plateau as he wasn't as assured in one-on-one contests in my view.
Boris was not his usual-self as early as the NAB challenge either. He was getting side stepped and exposed more often than I had ever seen from him in a decade. Thing is though, even a slightly subdued Boris is still better than most others in that position on the ground it's just that we are sorely lacking speed, and having all three of Mackie, Enright, Kelly is giving the opposition confidence every week now.

Agree with you on Kelly- early this season he was being praised as an important part of the backline, after being moved out of the midfield. It was as if he'd been reinvigorated. Suddenly, after a few late-season losses- and the missed finals opportunities certainly rip the guts out of us- everyone has turned on him and calling for his head! (Or, at the very least, his retirement!)
Perhaps the club's player management is at fault here- or perhaps him being cooked is a direct result of injuries to other players, i.e. he's been required to play more games than he should've played this season. What a shame the MC didn't get more games into Bews this season, perhaps giving Kelly a bit more relief and keeping him fresh for finals.
Or maybe if we'd played Bews instead, we'd have lost games that we actually won during the year and we'd have been in the bottom half of the 8 anyway.
Who knows? Nothing we can do to change things now but I hope the MC go back and add up all the mistakes they made this year and, hopefully, come up with a better plan next season.

 

[David the Cat]

Give KIDS game time, why the hell should we store these champions only to lose a qualifying next year?

I think I read you suggested SJ should retire/be traded or something similar.

Bye bye credibility…..especially in a thread named "perspective"….NFI

 

[Catsace]

Pretty empty feeling knowing that our finals campaign is over before the PF stage, but in all honesty we were a step behind the top-4 in our guise as our recent 3 losses in 4 games shows. We won the opening five games with a win over the Hawks in that spell, and we were able to keep our nose in top-4 territory all H & A season, but the ledger shows defeats to the Hawks twice, Freo, Sydney and Port (all comfortably), and with some of our younger mids like Christensen and Motlop injured late, even if we won we'd have been mere fodder against the Swans in a PF.

We enter a phase now where we need to really work out what sort of talent inventory we have with many of our players drafted from '08 onwards. Starting with Mitch Brown, and including perpetually injured types like Cowan, Menzel (who we rightly should see for 2015, but he'd be almost unique to come back successfully from 4 knees) Vardy, Hamling, and a few others, there's a lot of younger players that really have very few games into them, and questions need to be asked. This is hurting our development, injuries notwithstanding. North for example suddenly now have a bunch of 21-24 year olds like the midfield combination, who have reached that big-body stage and have increased their pace and spread as time's gone on. Sadly in some sense for us, we still struggle to catch up with the ancient Harvey, who plays like he's 12 years younger than his age.

Our midfield hasn't got the young depth and fast legs it needs to match it with the powerhouses that are at the top of the table. Bartel, SJ and Kelly as our '01 class are at the end of the regular midfield road, and two of our best and fastest younger mids have been playing under duress or have suffered many knocks like Bundy and Motlop. Bews is one who must be given his shot next year as a backman/rotating mid, he's never done much wrong but seems to always be the first omitted. But for various reasons as another posted highlighted in a post a week or two ago, or age and game demographic sort of has a hiatus between Selwood and Motlop i think, a gap of about 2 1/2 years and also in the games tallies. Duncan is the one who has played the most games of our players drafted from '09 onwards, and you then have Christensen and Motlop, but it drops a bit after that. The latter two need to try and get fit, and Bundy worries me a bit as he's had many heavy knocks for a small bloke, and now has back issues. Guthrie and GHS are the best of the rest, but we need more coming through, and at this stage who we have on the list have played less than 30 games or so.

Murdoch and Smedts are sort of similar types, but mainly outside mids, who as yet are inconsistent and prone to having games of little to any influence. McCarthy, Hartman etc have played only a few games, and need to get into the mix if good enough. Great sides need great midfield depth, and as time's gone on the older ones have got older and have not been replaced with enough quality (and quantity) coming through. It is a development phase, and making top-4 doing this is pretty amazing. We've lost a bevy of Hall of fame quality players in the last few seasons, and they cannot be replaced immediately with players of the same quality. We just have to try and transition the new players in, and probably next year really start seeing who on our list can take us forward. As it is, there's several players with big question marks among the younger brigade, and we need to see if they are the ones to take us forward, or do we have a go at the draft and FA to see what we can do to try and upgrade. In any case, this pre-season and trade/draft period will be illuminating.

 

[illavitar]

Well put. Should've won tonight but wouldn't have troubled Sydney too much I feel. Really need these players to step up next year and a couple to shine if we are to challenge again -

Smedts
Bews
Hartman
Lang
Thurlow
McCarthy
Brown
Schroder

Probably wont happen.

I'm calling it soon. These two or at least Thurlow to still be at the club in 5 years!

 

[Scottland2007]

Discussed at work yesterday, would you rather go out in straight sets or get belted by Sydney. Well, straight sets gets forgotten pretty quick (how often does WC in 07 get brought up). Whereas if you get belted by Sydney and they win the flag it will forever be in your face on the victory pack when you go in a shop. That game will be mass produced on DVD. I'm not saying that will happen to Nth, but it was certainly on the cards for us. Also, Hawkins and Selwood. Awesome.

 

[Whit3y]

We are neck deep in a rebuild. And for all of that we lost by a goal. Put a fit Johnson, Bundy and Dawson into that side and we win.

but do we turn around 110 points against sydney?
i remember this time last year people were saying a fit simpson and hmac and we can only get better

 

[Whit3y]

And we resigned Kelly and Enright plays on..... Retire SJ, Lonergan this year, give Kelly 11 games, and get Enright to 300 and both retire in middle of season effective immediately. Serioisly need a hard look we cant seriously be keeping these old guys next year play them all year long and expect to make it further than another semi?

those old legs are getting older. thing is when we play well these are the guys that stand up. cant be relying on this guys forever

 

[Whit3y]

Can you name any other top 8 side that would have Varcoe or Mccarthy starting at the center bounce at times in a do or die final?

chris scotts secret weapon

 

[Partridge]

Mate, 3 flags since 07!!!!!!!! Best you find a new team to support.

Mate, 0 flags since 2011!!!!! A great 1-5 finals record since.

 

[winty]

If honest we probably should lose SJ to a coaching role this year, Enright due to age, Kelly cause he's past it and Lonergan for the sake of it. May be very brutally harsh calls but all 4 would be out the door next year with the likes of Rivers, Bartel so why not just go half/half and cut 3 this year.

Agree with pretty much all that, apart from Lonners. Although we might be in the box seat to secure Frawley's services, we haven't got him yet. With Harry's lapse in form (maybe opposition teams have finally worked out how to make him a non-factor by dragging him out of the defensive 50), we can't leave Rivers as our only key defender, and we'd be asking too much of Kolodjashnij, Brown or whichever youngster we elevate to fill-in down back.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Give KIDS game time, why the hell should we store these champions only to lose a qualifying next year?

Simple, we won't make finals if it's all kids.

9/10 the champs are the ones that get it done for us during the H/A that gets us into finals in the first place.

 

[gogeelongcats]

time to move on some of our champions.
we will not win a premiership wit our existing list
need new blood and the young ones there have to be given a go

 

[HoopsAhoy]

Don't disagree there, as long as form dictates and that goes both ways. Thought Thurlow should have had more of run this year anyway.

Yes and that was what has me scratching my head. GFC have had injuries galore, yet GFC haven't put as many games into the youngsters as one would have thought they would in a "transition period".

 

[Willo_]

I thought young Bewsy was stiff a few times this year, did nothing (that I could see) wrong yet found himself dropped twice.

Guthrie also stagnated, I think he looks like he is a bit to happy with himself personally... wouldn't mind him getting sent back to the backline where he was becoming so good last year.
But wait what about a tagger I hear you ask... well firstly he hasn't done the role that well anyway this year (on a whole) and personally I think the player I mentioned first in Jed would make a very good tagger.. He is quick, strong, disciplined and looks the type that you can just say 'shut this bloke down' and he'll do it.
Also would prefer Guth with the ball out of defense than Bewsy...

As long as Cam stops those garbage worm burning passes that are fraught with danger

 

[MisterMarcus]

We've finished 3rd and 5th during two years of rebuilding.........you know, that phase where every other team crashes out of the 8 and wallows in the bottom 6 for a few years.

How's that for "perspective"?

 

[catswhiskers]

Give KIDS game time, why the hell should we store these champions only to lose a qualifying next year?

Some senior players need to (will) be told that VFL time is probable next year if they play on.

More time for youngsters in the ones but with some (different) veterans surrounding them each week.

Should we make finals, in form , performing players selected on merit regardless of age.

 

[Rainfall]

Simple, we won't make finals if it's all kids.

9/10 the champs are the ones that get it done for us during the H/A that gets us into finals in the first place.

Not a very good thing to say Alk considering we lost the semi last night if we're playing all these veterans what makes you think we'll even get past an elimination next year? Especially when the competition around us is getting better?

 

[Rainfall]

Some senior players need to (will) be told that VFL time is probable next year if they play on.

More time for youngsters in the ones but with some (different) veterans surrounding them each week.

Should we make finals, in form , performing players selected on merit regardless of age.

In all seriousness I'd only play somebody like Kelly when we are versusing minnows such as GWS, STK, WBD in order to give someone like Bews 3 extra games. I also think Steve Johnson CAN retire this year - if he's contracted until next year it wouldn't worry because we can sack Bree or O'Bree or whatever his name is for SJ to g o into a coaching role

 

[winty]

We've finished 3rd and 5th during two years of rebuilding.........you know, that phase where every other team crashes out of the 8 and wallows in the bottom 6 for a few years.

How's that for "perspective"?

Had a Hawks supporting mate on FB complaining about people saying we're rebuilding, and said we still have 10 players who played in '08, and they only had 7. Just had a look who's missing from both sides:

Geelong - Ablett, Blake, Chapman, Corey, Harley, Hunt, Ling, Milburn, Mooney, Ottens, Rooke, Scarlett.
Hawthorn - Bateman, Brown, Campbell, Crawford, Croad, Dew, Ellis, Franklin, Gilham, Guerra, Ladson, Osborne, Renouf, Williams and Young.

I think I know which list is the more talented...

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

The real perspective is we were fraudulent as a top 4 side this year, in reality we are only marginally better than Richmond. The Cats were very very disappointing tonight.

I agree with your first sentence but not your second. I wasn't disappointed, I was actually surprised at how close they got in the end.

I hope the close result doesn't fool people into believing that we're only a little tweak here and a little tweak there away from genuinely being in contention again. It wouldn't be the first side it's happened to.

A belting may have been more beneficially in the long run.

Playing in 10 finals series in the last 11 with 3 flags has been awesome but all those extra games looks like it's really taken its toll on the older players.

As good as they've been for us, as much joy as they've given us, the club really needs to make some hard decisions this off season. Hopefully the players save everyone the heartache and make if for themselves.