Opinion Peter Bell - Should get a raise?

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Dockeroo

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I look at Hogan doing ok at GWS and slide some credit in the direction of their football manager.

I look at Melbourne with May and do the same.
Interestingly May really stunk it up the first year he came down from GC.
I remember middle of last year people were laughing at the massive error Melbourne made passing up on Ben King to bring in Steven May.
No one laughing now.
 

Freomaniac

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Sack Bell for recruiting Jesse Hogan?

Be honest, you were all stoked when we got him.
I am going to be honest on Jesse Hogan....

Dont get me wrong, I was happy Freo traded for Jesse Hogan at the time, even though we traded Heavily for him. But Hogan filled a spot Freo were desperate to fill: A Spot as a KPF kicking 40-60 goals a season. He Didnt need to kick 50-60 goals a season. I would of been happy for Freo to make finals in 2019 with Jesse Hogan playing all 22 games and kicking only 40 goals. A KPF kicking 40-50 goals a year is very hard to find or trade or develop at Freo.

But I have posted this before and Have posted this on other threads. Dont get me wrong. I was Happy getting Both Hogan and Lobb via trades. But I was more happier and Exicted at getting Lobb than Hogan as Lobb didnt cost all the eggs in one basket or we didnt trade the farm for Lobb.

Rory Lobb filled 2 needs at the time: a Semi decent KPF and a back up ruck.
 

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stax on the mull

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Is Bell part of the selection committee. I know Bond was. Bell having been Longmuir's captain


a 7 star rating for bell.
 
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theGav56

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Also why does the Board always get away from criticism????? They are the one that sign off on the biggest decisions. They signed off on Jesse. I'm not sure why Alcock and co are never in the firing line.
Alcock is certainly deserving scrutiny, and Bell came into his position at the club from the Board.

I am less impressed by the sacking of our S&C the longer our injury issues persist and worry that sacking people is a way of looking like you are doing something. Sack/trade Hogan, okay, but the club failed in their assessment of him, his treatment, and his development. I’m not ticking those issues off as having been addressed.
 

theGav56

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Interestingly May really stunk it up the first year he came down from GC.
I remember middle of last year people were laughing at the massive error Melbourne made passing up on Ben King to bring in Steven May.
No one laughing now.
May, like Hogan, came in with an injury issue.
 

Freomaniac

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I'm defiantly in favour of greater accountability but think Bell needs more time.

I think you're clutching if you think Bell was responsible for brining in Jesse. I'm judging Bell from 2019 onwards and I have seen pretty good trading and drafting periods inbetween and the appointment of a solid coach.

We received very good compensation for Brad Hill in the face of significant Melbourne media backlash during the trade period. I think our picks in the 2019 draft were very good and shrewd (even though we were f'^ked by Carlton for Henry).

I also think the appointment of Jlo looks good (tell me which other candidates were better suited). Justin has been very impressive for a inexperienced coach in trying circumstances - covid-19 interruptions, very long injury list etc. He's only a year and a half in but there have been good signs.

Bell overhauled the fitness and conditioning programme which many of you were calling for.

And I think getting rid of Jesse was a bold decision which is probably the right decision long term. Yes we might be a better team now with Jesse in it, but at what cost? We killed our culture during the period of 15-18 by brining-in selfish and unprofessional players for a quick fix. I think it was a bold decision to get rid and will be the right one long term.

I'm not saying Bell is the messiah. Far from it. But I've seen enough to give him more time.

Also why does the Board always get away from criticism????? They are the one that sign off on the biggest decisions. They signed off on Jesse. I'm not sure why Alcock and co are never in the firing line.
Solid post.

Peter Bell has only been at the club since late 2018. Its Already mid 2021. I want until at least until the end of 2023 or even the end of 2022 to put some judge ment.

The Brad Hill trade was interesting. Peter Bell negoitated to a varying degrees. Freo wanted a couple of 1st rounders for Brad Hill as he was contracted for 2 more years. Freo didnt get those 2 1st rounders, despite saints turning pick 6 into picks 12 and 18, Smart trade by the saints by the way.

So Freo traded Brad Hill and a future 3rd to the saints. Freo in return got picks 10, 58, Blake Acres, a future 2nd and future 4th. Not exactly the couple of 1st rounders we originally wanted but Most freo fans were happy for the fair trade package in the end. But it was even better that we didnt waste what we got on the Brad Hill deal.

To be honest, I was unsure if the Appointment of Justin Longmuir as freos coach was right. I was worried when freo were 0-4 last season. But after going 7-10 in 2020 and currently at 4-5 after 9 games, he deserves to see out this season. I dont see freo making finals in 2021. In 2022, there will be expectations, make finals or get sacked. If freo dont make finals this season, thats 6 years in a row of no finals.

Like Ross Lyons final 2 seasons as coach, injuries to the backline doesnt help.

Saying that, you Look at freos coaching history.... We are no known for sacking coaches every 2-3 seasons. As I said in our 1st 25 years, the average period for a perminent Freo dockers coach is 5 years and he have had 5 full time coaches in a 25 year period from 1995-2019: Neesham from 1995-8, Drum in 1999-mid 2001, Ben Allan took over for half a season in 2001. Connolly from 2002- mid 2007, Mark Harvey from mid 2007-2011, Ross Lyon from 2012-19, Justin Longmuir from 2020 to now.



Bell overhauled the fitness and conditioning department. Chris Weber was at our club for 10 years and he had to go. Getting Phil Merriman as a High Performance Manager is a good move. Merriman was a member of the strength and condtioning staff at the hawks from 2011-17. He was the head of the strength and condtioning staff at the demons from 2018-2020.


Getting Rid of Jesse Hogan was a bold decison, time will tell 3-5 years from now how massive that decision will be. Saying that We got rid of Hogan, McCarthy, Matera and Dixon. All 4 are forwards.


Freo have traded their fair share of experienced players from 2015-18, some have been good, others not so good.

Hogan I am disappointed because he had talent but had off field issues and had injuries. McCarthy and Matera have proven they are capable to be solid players but wasnt willing to work harder to keep their spots and improve. Its a shame too. McCarthy Looked good vs North in round 1, 2019 when he kicked 5 goals vs North. I seriously thought he was going to kick 40 goals that season. Matera Kicked 30 goals in 2019 then did next to nothing in 2020 and got delisted.

Harley Bennell I was excited to get at the end of 2015. Sadly a combination of off field problems and injuries stuffed him. At least we got darcy tucker in that Bennell trade.
 

anchor man

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Solid post.

Peter Bell has only been at the club since late 2018. Its Already mid 2021. I want until at least until the end of 2023 or even the end of 2022 to put some judge ment.

The Brad Hill trade was interesting. Peter Bell negoitated to a varying degrees. Freo wanted a couple of 1st rounders for Brad Hill as he was contracted for 2 more years. Freo didnt get those 2 1st rounders, despite saints turning pick 6 into picks 12 and 18, Smart trade by the saints by the way.

So Freo traded Brad Hill and a future 3rd to the saints. Freo in return got picks 10, 58, Blake Acres, a future 2nd and future 4th. Not exactly the couple of 1st rounders we originally wanted but Most freo fans were happy for the fair trade package in the end. But it was even better that we didnt waste what we got on the Brad Hill deal.

To be honest, I was unsure if the Appointment of Justin Longmuir as freos coach was right. I was worried when freo were 0-4 last season. But after going 7-10 in 2020 and currently at 4-5 after 9 games, he deserves to see out this season. I dont see freo making finals in 2021. In 2022, there will be expectations, make finals or get sacked. If freo dont make finals this season, thats 6 years in a row of no finals.

Like Ross Lyons final 2 seasons as coach, injuries to the backline doesnt help.

Saying that, you Look at freos coaching history.... We are no known for sacking coaches every 2-3 seasons. As I said in our 1st 25 years, the average period for a perminent Freo dockers coach is 5 years and he have had 5 full time coaches in a 25 year period from 1995-2019: Neesham from 1995-8, Drum in 1999-mid 2001, Ben Allan took over for half a season in 2001. Connolly from 2002- mid 2007, Mark Harvey from mid 2007-2011, Ross Lyon from 2012-19, Justin Longmuir from 2020 to now.



Bell overhauled the fitness and conditioning department. Chris Weber was at our club for 10 years and he had to go. Getting Phil Merriman as a High Performance Manager is a good move. Merriman was a member of the strength and condtioning staff at the hawks from 2011-17. He was the head of the strength and condtioning staff at the demons from 2018-2020.


Getting Rid of Jesse Hogan was a bold decison, time will tell 3-5 years from now how massive that decision will be. Saying that We got rid of Hogan, McCarthy, Matera and Dixon. All 4 are forwards.


Freo have traded their fair share of experienced players from 2015-18, some have been good, others not so good.

Hogan I am disappointed because he had talent but had off field issues and had injuries. McCarthy and Matera have proven they are capable to be solid players but wasnt willing to work harder to keep their spots and improve. Its a shame too. McCarthy Looked good vs North in round 1, 2019 when he kicked 5 goals vs North. I seriously thought he was going to kick 40 goals that season. Matera Kicked 30 goals in 2019 then did next to nothing in 2020 and got delisted.

Harley Bennell I was excited to get at the end of 2015. Sadly a combination of off field problems and injuries stuffed him. At least we got darcy tucker in that Bennell trade.
Bennell, McCarthy and Hogan treated the club like it was a half way house.
Glad to see them all go.
 

anchor man

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A great quote from Kamahl,..... Why are people so unkind.Might change it to... Why are people so stupid.
Is this post really serious!!!!!!
 

Piggy Smalls

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I don’t know about sacking Bell. Can’t we just hire a goal kicking coach?

They don’t call goal kicking ‘finishing’ for no reason. It’s the efforts of everyone at the club that get undermined by our players’ inability to kick the ball between the two big sticks. If we were 6-3 with three 100+ scores on the board we’d all be typing on the
‘Peter Bell Statue... too soon?’ thread right now.
 

anchor man

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I don’t know about sacking Bell. Can’t we just hire a goal kicking coach?

They don’t call goal kicking ‘finishing’ for no reason. It’s the efforts of everyone at the club that get undermined by our players’ inability to kick the ball between the two big sticks. If we were 6-3 with three 100+ scores on the board we’d all be typing on the
‘Peter Bell Statue... too soon?’ thread right now.
I am not sure that a goal kicking coach would help much.
If players don't know how to kick a football by the time they get to even second tier level, then it is too late to teach them.Bad habits are ingrained.
 

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estibador

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They're not. Hogan is responsible for his behaviour like Dustin Martin, Toby Greene, Jordan de Goey, Liam Ryan, Lance Franklin etc are all responsible for their behaviour. Bell is responsible for managing it without turning it into a dick swinging contest and throwing the baby out with the bathwater, like all his counterpart managers at the other clubs are
Honestly, I think the worst strike against Hogan was when he turned up to training intoxicated (or some variant thereof) and had to be sent home. It's one thing to be a loose cannon in your spare time, but showing up to the club like that is completely unacceptable. Have any of those other players ever done anything like that?

And on Liam Ryan, I think we all know his indiscretions would have had a completely different narrative had he been a Freo player. The media would have hounded him relentlessly instead of shrugging it off with 'boys will be boys'.
 

heypenny

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Honestly, I think the worst strike against Hogan was when he turned up to training intoxicated (or some variant thereof) and had to be sent home. It's one thing to be a loose cannon in your spare time, but showing up to the club like that is completely unacceptable. Have any of those other players ever done anything like that?

And on Liam Ryan, I think we all know his indiscretions would have had a completely different narrative had he been a Freo player. The media would have hounded him relentlessly instead of shrugging it off with 'boys will be boys'.
The hypocrisy is frustrating. Hogan was never given a chance by the media or the public.

The last time I was in Perth, friends and acquaintances (who support the other mob) were lecturing me about Hogan. About him being on drugs and being a bad influence. I now see the same people defending Willie on facebook and wanting to 'support' and 'wrap up' Rioli. Give me a break.
 
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mightymouse75

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Honestly, I think the worst strike against Hogan was when he turned up to training intoxicated (or some variant thereof) and had to be sent home. It's one thing to be a loose cannon in your spare time, but showing up to the club like that is completely unacceptable. Have any of those other players ever done anything like that?

And on Liam Ryan, I think we all know his indiscretions would have had a completely different narrative had he been a Freo player. The media would have hounded him relentlessly instead of shrugging it off with 'boys will be boys'.
Got a point. West coast players are given a free ride 😂
 

anchor man

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The hypocrisy is frustrating. Hogan was never given a chance by the media or the public.

The last time I was in Perth, friends and acquaintances (who support the other mob) were lecturing me about Hogan. About him being on drugs and being a bad influence. I now see the same people defending Willie on facebook and wanting to 'support' and 'wrap up' Rioli. Give me a break.
But that is "the other mob".
Jesse never gave himself a true shot at making it with Freo.
 

Freomaniac

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Got a point. West coast players are given a free ride 😂
If Zac Dawson was ever pulled over by the cops with a bag of weed the size of your wallet, It would be front page news on the West coast australian. Probably be a 10 page lift out too. 9 and and a half of those pages embelishing the scandal.
 

theGav56

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Depends.....

If freo dont make finals, is it going to change for the better if Bell and Longmuir are gone?
Those two are our visionaries. Their job is to define what direction we are going as a club both on and off field. That is typically assessed against determining if they have identified issues that need to be addressed, strategies to address them, a timeframe for achievement, and progress against that timeframe.

Our Chairman has indicated that finals are to be expected within the coaches contract period, and my guess is that Bell and Longmuir would have that as a goal.

Not achieving against that kind of timeframe isn’t immediately the end of the road, but is a reasonable starting point in evaluating how your visionaries are performing. After all, we culled a significant number of high profile players, sacked an in contract and proven coach, totally revamped our S&C, and introduced significant changes to our coaching assistant and development staff in order to achieve that objective.

If we aren’t progressing towards that objective it calls into question quite a few decisions.
 

Freomaniac

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Those two are our visionaries. Their job is to define what direction we are going as a club both on and off field. That is typically assessed against determining if they have identified issues that need to be addressed, strategies to address them, a timeframe for achievement, and progress against that timeframe.

Our Chairman has indicated that finals are to be expected within the coaches contract period, and my guess is that Bell and Longmuir would have that as a goal.

Not achieving against that kind of timeframe isn’t immediately the end of the road, but is a reasonable starting point in evaluating how your visionaries are performing. After all, we culled a significant number of high profile players, sacked an in contract and proven coach, totally revamped our S&C, and introduced significant changes to our coaching assistant and development staff in order to achieve that objective.

If we aren’t progressing towards that objective it calls into question quite a few decisions.
well when Ross Lyon left freo at the end of 2019, so did steve Rosich.

Saying That, I hope freo make finals by the end of 2022.

would be interesting If Both Justin Longmuir and Peter Bell stay on their roles for a few years.

Again, As much as I love the flag, I want at least want some stability. Under Ross Lyon was the only time freo made finals for at least 2 years in a row.

I want Freo to have a 2-3 or possibly even a 4 year run of finals under Justin Longmuir as coach.
 

theGav56

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well when Ross Lyon left freo at the end of 2019, so did steve Rosich.

Saying That, I hope freo make finals by the end of 2022.

would be interesting If Both Justin Longmuir and Peter Bell stay on their roles for a few years.

Again, As much as I love the flag, I want at least want some stability. Under Ross Lyon was the only time freo made finals for at least 2 years in a row.

I want Freo to have a 2-3 or possibly even a 4 year run of finals under Justin Longmuir as coach.
To me they need to show that we are moving forward and gaining significant momentum.

They especially need to show how they will address list issues especially KPPs, but forward strategy generally. Showing that is achievable within Longmuir’s contract.

Trading strategy is going to be an interesting area to look at over the next few seasons. We have a potentially disastrous situation with an exciting band of Victorians emerging. We also have an aging couple of high end stars. If things align we could work things to our advantage and do better than simply contend for a finals spot.

They also need to show that injury issues are under control. Sacking the S&C is a major change and they also culled a number of players with long term injury/availability issues. Neither of those things are shining through as being successful, but it is early days. I am concerned that we are putting too many young players at injury risk too early in their careers. I assume other factors such as our training ground had been thoroughly reviewed, but we aren’t seeing the improvement and it is absolutely critical to seeing stability and regular finals.
 

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