Opinion Peter Bell - Should get a raise?

[poshman]

It is difficult to build something of substance if you are always changing it, especially because of a grudge you have or you think it is a "boys club". Everything has been running better and better but still snipers wanna take a shot.

What snipers?

Everything? Injuries? Surgery problems? Membership?

Always changing it? That’s a big statement. Looking at just the top four target which is not as difficult as winning the thing. I am asking - at what point does Bell or Justin come under pressure in light of a target the club came out with. I didn’t set the target. Therefore, how am I sniping?

 

[WilloTree]

If we don’t make the finals this year - is it realistic to think that we will achieve the top four target?

It's a 5-year strategic plan.

What Simon Garlic does or doesn't do after 12 months is irrelevant.

 

[Square Peg]

I'm personally glad to have transitioned in the space of one page from a hater to a sniper, there's something more analytical and methodical about being a sniper, plus you get paid for your work.

 

[CapitalA]

What snipers?

Everything? Injuries? Surgery problems? Membership?

Always changing it? That’s a big statement. Looking at just the top four target which is not as difficult as winning the thing. I am asking - at what point does Bell or Justin come under pressure in light of a target the club came out with. I didn’t set the target. Therefore, how am I sniping?

Actually this is your quote

It is finals or bust this year, if we are to reach the premiership and top four goals they have laid out.

No finals this year and either the coach or Bell have to go if the club is serious about their 5 year plan.

You specifically said they HAVE to go. Like you wanna out them as soon as possible. You have some issue with them and can't have a positive outlook. It is cringe to see honestly.

 

[Taylor]

There's a lot of work and milestones to achieve to turn hot air words and promises into results.

We absolutely need to fill our stadium every week. The financial strength of the club directly leads to results because the richer we are the more opportunities we can offer potential sponsors to hire our players to subsidize their income off the salary cap. If you want an example, if Fremantle develop some land off the side of the freeway and the narrow side facing the oncoming traffic has a few banners of our gun players, brought to you by Commbank and Telstra.

We fill the stadium by winning games, by a lot. Our supporters will show up to watch us pummel a side by 40 points

 

[Tony_Clifton]

There's a lot of work and milestones to achieve to turn hot air words and promises into results.

We absolutely need to fill our stadium every week. The financial strength of the club directly leads to results because the richer we are the more opportunities we can offer potential sponsors to hire our players to subsidize their income off the salary cap. If you want an example, if Fremantle develop some land off the side of the freeway and the narrow side facing the oncoming traffic has a few banners of our gun players, brought to you by Commbank and Telstra.

We fill the stadium by winning games, by a lot. Our supporters will show up to watch us pummel a side by 40 points

That's great and all but there should be a distinction between the faithful and the blowins coming to watch 40 point pummelings

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

A) Mods did not change the thread title from the original
B) I agree that some kind of clarity on the thread is probably warranted so have now changed it a little bit. It's freo1997's thread though so some control over it should be with them.
C) If someone has a difference opinion, resorting to name calling almost immediately generally accomplishes nothing in my experience

 

[Taylor]

That's great and all but there should be a distinction between the faithful and the blowins coming to watch 40 point pummelings

I think the loyalty program launched at the end of the season, taking effect from new renewals now, will achieve that

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

On the topic of the thread, I do find it a little bit funny how everyone thinks we have smashed the draft when we havent even seen the kids train yet and it's pretty obviously 80% due to the fact we drafted a KPF AND went all WA again.

I personally think Bell's accomplished nothing yet (this can obviously change quickly and significantly) and has a couple of major failure's he was either largely responsible for (Micallef hire) or responsible for in some shape or form (the Hogan saga).

I like the general direction, I have lots of hope but we havent done anything worth patting ourselves on the back over yet

 

[Tony_Clifton]

I personally think Bell's accomplished nothing yet (this can obviously change quickly and significantly) and has a couple of major failure's he was either largely responsible for (Micallef hire) or responsible for in some shape or form (the Hogan saga).

I like the general direction, I have lots of hope but we havent done anything worth patting ourselves on the back over yet

Disagree. You can acknowledge all the hard work that comes before the harvest. And if the hard work is done diligently and your decision making process has been sound then the harvest is usually a good one. It's possible to do all that hard work and make a wise decision and yet have the outcome be bad in hindsight.

 

[raffrox]

I think the thread title change is hilarious. I think some in this thread are taking it too seriously. It just shows the fickle nature of this board.

Luckily for the first time in a long while the club has a clear plan that it is looking to execute. Surprise, surprise its not going to happen in a year or two but if people can't see the clear changes in culture, attitude and action in the last few years then that's on you.

I don't feel like a need to try convince people otherwise. I'm too busy enjoying being optimistic about the future and enjoying the ride.

We're on the right track and it is stupidly ridiculously unlikely that Bell and Longmuir will be sacked in 12 months unless we completely crash and burn.

We are much more likely not to though.

 

[Square Peg]

LMAO. It's not going to happen in a year or two but it will happen eventually?

I'll let you in on a secret, even gold coast will happen eventually. That's the way of the AFL. You keep failing for long enough and in the end you get there.

Putting the aforementioned gold coast aside, the only club that's been out of finals longer than us is Carlton. Yes we'll get back there eventually. It's almost impossible in this competition not to. I can't imagine how anyone seriously thinks waiting another year or two to get there means the prior five years are a success story.

 

[Bring back Drum]

On the topic of the thread, I do find it a little bit funny how everyone thinks we have smashed the draft when we havent even seen the kids train yet and it's pretty obviously 80% due to the fact we drafted a KPF AND went all WA again.

I personally think Bell's accomplished nothing yet (this can obviously change quickly and significantly) and has a couple of major failure's he was either largely responsible for (Micallef hire) or responsible for in some shape or form (the Hogan saga).

I like the general direction, I have lots of hope but we havent done anything worth patting ourselves on the back over yet

What would have you done differently to Bell?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

What would have you done differently to Bell?

I think that's a loaded question that honestly is pointless. I'm not someone with extensive AFL experience who can sit here saying my way is better, I'm not that deluded. All I can do with any kind of assurance is evaluate results. The Micallef hire was diabolical and I've always wondered why its not gotten more criticism around here. If Bell had have really not wanted Hogan in the first place and put his foot down so we got King instead he'd be worthy of a ******* statue already but I'm not overly critical on him getting Hogan coz that would have been a very difficult thing to do in the situation.

Really, in the end, like I said, I'm happy with where we are going, I like the approach to using as many top 20 picks on young talent as possible and recruit around the edges and I have a lot of optimism where we are going. I'm not giving Bell a tick of approval until we've actually done something of note

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Disagree. You can acknowledge all the hard work that comes before the harvest. And if the hard work is done diligently and your decision making process has been sound then the harvest is usually a good one. It's possible to do all that hard work and make a wise decision and yet have the outcome be bad in hindsight.
View attachment 1289110

How's it possible to do all the hard work, make wise decisions and the outcome be bad? If you draft, trade, condition, gameplan and develop well, you'll put yourself in the position to contend. I'm not setting the bar high here, I'm not saying flag or bust for Bell to be good at his job but we havent made finals yet...

 

[poshman]

Actually this is your quote


You specifically said they HAVE to go. Like you wanna out them as soon as possible. You have some issue with them and can't have a positive outlook. It is cringe to see honestly.

No I literally didn’t say ‘they’ have to go. Read it again.

I’m saying - if something doesn’t happen then one of them has to go. So no not ‘they’ as in both. Literally.

You still haven’t answered the question. The goal is a set amount of top four finishes in the next five years. Is that correct? Given they have come out with the plan and are putting a lot out there regarding it we have two options.

1. think it is all just a marketing thing and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

2. get onboard with the plan and expect it to happen while we support them achieving it.

If it is number two then if we don’t make finals this year do you think we will still reach the goal of top four finishes within the five year window?

I think if we miss this finals this year it will be difficult as we would need to do the following:

2022 - outside 8
23 - inside 8
24-26 - Top Four.

I think that is less realistic than finishing in the 8 this season and then going top four three of the next four. One reason is the age of Fyfe, Mundy and Walters. The other is that we will have to be very lucky on the injury front.

Do you think we should take the clubs plans seriously?

This can be done without being negative or being shook or having a tanty or being cringe. Or without trying to score points.

If you don’t think we need to make the finals this year to achieve the target then explain why. I am hoping to have my mind changed. Or to at least hear a good argument based on the clubs targets and how we could achieve them

I want nothing more than for the club to reach these targets. The club is marketing these plans very strongly. I don’t understand why Bell, his position, his performance and future at the club wouldnt be under review if it becomes clear we won’t achieve the goals the club has committed to achieving.

I am fine with an argument that someone believes that point will come later than then end of next season if we don’t finish in the 8. If that is the case, argue it. If not, stop playing the man, and make the argument based on their commitment to those goals.

 

[CapitalA]

No I literally didn’t say ‘they’ have to go. Read it again.

I’m saying - if something doesn’t happen then one of them has to go. So no not ‘they’ as in both. Literally.

You still haven’t answered the question. The goal is a set amount of top four finishes in the next five years. Is that correct? Given they have come out with the plan and are putting a lot out there regarding it we have two options.

1. think it is all just a marketing thing and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

2. get onboard with the plan and expect it to happen while we support them achieving it.

If it is number two then if we don’t make finals this year do you think we will still reach the goal of top four finishes within the five year window?

I think if we miss this finals this year it will be difficult as we would need to do the following:

2022 - outside 8
23 - inside 8
24-26 - Top Four.

I think that is less realistic than finishing in the 8 this season and then going top four three of the next four. One reason is the age of Fyfe, Mundy and Walters. The other is that we will have to be very lucky on the injury front.

Do you think we should take the clubs plans seriously?

This can be done without being negative or being shook or having a tanty or being cringe. Or without trying to score points.

If you don’t think we need to make the finals this year to achieve the target then explain why. I am hoping to have my mind changed. Or to at least hear a good argument based on the clubs targets and how we could achieve them

I want nothing more than for the club to reach these targets. The club is marketing these plans very strongly. I don’t understand why Bell, his position, his performance and future at the club wouldnt be under review if it becomes clear we won’t achieve the goals the club has committed to achieving.

I am fine with an argument that someone believes that point will come later than then end of next season if we don’t finish in the 8. If that is the case, argue it. If not, stop playing the man, and make the argument based on their commitment to those goals.

U stay up all night writing this one? Yikes.

 

[Tony_Clifton]

How's it possible to do all the hard work, make wise decisions and the outcome be bad? If you draft, trade, condition, gameplan and develop well, you'll put yourself in the position to contend.

There is an element of randomness/variability in life. The decision to draft Morabito was a sound decision with a bad outcome in hindsight. I agree that doing the right things gives you the best chance of contending.

 

[poshman]

U stay up all night writing this one? Yikes.

Again - cannot answer the actual question..

No, sadly I was with my baby at hospital and needed to stay awake while she finally slept.

 

[Bring back Drum]

I think that's a loaded question that honestly is pointless. I'm not someone with extensive AFL experience who can sit here saying my way is better, I'm not that deluded. All I can do with any kind of assurance is evaluate results. The Micallef hire was diabolical and I've always wondered why its not gotten more criticism around here. If Bell had have really not wanted Hogan in the first place and put his foot down so we got King instead he'd be worthy of a ******* statue already but I'm not overly critical on him getting Hogan coz that would have been a very difficult thing to do in the situation.

Really, in the end, like I said, I'm happy with where we are going, I like the approach to using as many top 20 picks on young talent as possible and recruit around the edges and I have a lot of optimism where we are going. I'm not giving Bell a tick of approval until we've actually done something of note

The question was more about selections at this draft.

I think the point is we all make mistakes in our occupation & not being able to say that Bell has done well recently is harsh & waiting to judge him on our onfield results is a tad misguided.

As we sit here today, he has done his job well in regards to our needs & wants & should be commended for the selections in this draft, as he like us can only go on what’s presented by these young players currently. If they end up being a bust, is that Bells fault?

I wanted Rachelle or Andrew’s & Erasmus for my first 2 selections, then hoped that JVR was available at 21. Obviously neither of those 2 were available, so the haul we ended up with, on paper is about the best result I can see for our selections.

So based on that I’m happy to say that Bell (& the rest of them) have delivered & deserve a pat on the back, it’s now over to Longmuir & his coaching staff to get the on field results that they will be judged on.

 

[WilloTree]

LMAO. It's not going to happen in a year or two but it will happen eventually?

I'll let you in on a secret, even gold coast will happen eventually. That's the way of the AFL. You keep failing for long enough and in the end you get there.

Putting the aforementioned gold coast aside, the only club that's been out of finals longer than us is Carlton. Yes we'll get back there eventually. It's almost impossible in this competition not to. I can't imagine how anyone seriously thinks waiting another year or two to get there means the prior five years are a success story.

Thanks, but I think I'd prefer Freo had a vision and a plan to the 'impossible not to' theory.

"I can't imagine how anyone seriously thinks waiting another year or two to get there means the prior five years are a success story."

WINS
2016 - 4
2017 - 8
2018 - 8
2019 - 9
2020 - 7*
2021 - 10

Can you see it now?

 

[poshman]

Thanks, but I think I'd prefer Freo had a vision and a plan to the 'impossible not to' theory.

"I can't imagine how anyone seriously thinks waiting another year or two to get there means the prior five years are a success story."

WINS
2016 - 4
2017 - 8
2018 - 8
2019 - 9
2020 - 7*
2021 - 10

Can you see it now?

Are you referring to the number of wins increasing?

I am not sure one more win than 2019 is much to point to if that is what you mean.

Where are you expecting us to finish this year?

 

[Square Peg]

Thanks, but I think I'd prefer Freo had a vision and a plan to the 'impossible not to' theory.

"I can't imagine how anyone seriously thinks waiting another year or two to get there means the prior five years are a success story."

WINS
2016 - 4
2017 - 8
2018
2019 - 9
2020 - 7*
2021 - 10

Can you see it now?

That's success is it? Cool

 

[WilloTree]

Are you referring to the number of wins increasing?

I am not sure one more win than 2019 is much to point to if that is what you mean.

Where are you expecting us to finish this year?

You don't think getting better on the field and posting better win/loss than the previous 5 seasons is a good thing?

I disagree. I like that we're improving, but hey, you do you.

 

[WilloTree]

That's success is it? Cool

Yep - you'd prefer the numbers went backwards?