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Roast Peter Bell

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Joao said:
JFC. How could you possibly think this knowing what we know now?

Jesse isn't up to it. We suspected it because we threatened to back out. He just got shipped off basically for free and you think this isn't 99.9% to do with what is in Jesse's head?

The trade was awful, just awful decision making.
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We threatened to pull out because of the navicular injury?

My recollection from 2 years ago was that we were getting a gun player who had been really unlucky with the foot injury, death of his father and the cancer diagnosis. Many felt that if he could get his foot right and with more family support in WA that he would thrive.
 
The club knew what they were getting...Fremantles own stupidity cost them losing out on hogan they couldn't get him right which shows the club clearly doesn't have the culture that some clubs do... They new he was going midway through the year! Instead of gifting games to spuds they should of played him in those home games this year, was clearly in our best 22 but there arrogance has cost them once again at the trade table.... Well played Peter bell !
 
dominguez said:
How many super drafts have there been in 20 years? But every second year is claimed to be a "super draft".
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Looking back over the last 20 years, the drafts all tend to be very even.

I would suggest that maybe only 2001, 2006 (although there were still a lot of early round "duds" in this one) and maybe 2018 (too hard to tell on this one just yet - but just to the number of stars that look like will come out of this and the strength of the 10-20 picks) were "super drafts". But they weren't THAT much better than a normal year.

For what it is worth, I think that next year's draft will be one of those where the top picks (who will be all inside out type midfielders) will be really good, but it will fall away quickly after pick 8 or so; that is what I predict.
 

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Ysaye said:
Looking back over the last 20 years, the drafts all tend to be very even.

I would suggest that maybe only 2001, 2006 (although there were still a lot of early round "duds" in this one) and maybe 2018 (too hard to tell on this one just yet - but just to the number of stars that look like will come out of this and the strength of the 10-20 picks) were "super drafts". But they weren't THAT much better than a normal year.

For what it is worth, I think that next year's draft will be one of those where the top picks (who will be all inside out type midfielders) will be really good, but it will fall away quickly after pick 8 or so; that is what I predict.
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I think 2010-2012 were poor drafts, but you have to remember many of the best players in those drafts were preselected as 17 year olds by GC and GWS.
 
Vintage said:
What’s most annoying is that we are the only team that has ever made a ’mistake’ in our trading.

in separate news did I read something about Jack Steven today?
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For interest sake (see list below) the Hogan Trade is up there as one of the worst. Since 2000 there have been a few bad ones with Brendon Fevola (Brisbane), Bryce Gibbs (Adelaide), Barry Brooks (St Kilda) and Wayne Carey (Adelaide) being worse.

The fact that we gave up a top 10 pick is unforgivable. The only consolation I take is that clubs GWS and GCS have burnt so many top 10 picks on players that barely cracked a game. Take Ahern (pick 7 - 2014) for example traded after nil games to North Melbourne for pick 69. Jonathon O’Rouke is another drafted at 3 (2012) that comes to mind.

2000: Justin Murphy (18 games) > Pick 11
2002: Barry Brooks (10 games) > Pick 6
2002: Wayne Carey (28 games) > Picks 2, 18
2005: Nathan Lonie (40 games) > Pick 14
2005: Jonathon Hay (8 games) > Pick 18
2009: Andrew Lovett (0 games) > Pick 16
2009: Mark Williams (4 games) > Pick 16
2009: Brendon Fevola (17 games) > Pick 12, Lachie Henderson
2011: Mitch Clark (15 games) > Pick 12
2014: Kristian Jaksch (7 games), Pick 19 > Pick 7
2015: Chris Yarran (0 games) > Pick 19
2016: Brett Deledio (32 games) > Picks 17, 54
2017: Bryce Gibbs (37 games) > Picks 10, 16
2018: Jesse Hogan (19 games), 59 > Picks 6, 27
 
OK, I am sure some smart person can explain why a team in our position having salary cap problems is not a big red cross mark against Bell and Bond.
 
Square Peg said:
OK, I am sure some smart person can explain why a team in our position having salary cap problems is not a big red cross mark against Bell and Bond.
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You may be a bit tough on Bell. Bond was the head of football until September 2018. Bell only has two years of player contracts (2019 & 2020).

You also need to point the finger at the list manager (Lloyd until end of 2018 & Micaleff in 2019). Mark Micaleff's appointment probably needs the most scrutiny. He was appointed in December 2018 and made questionable calls early (i.e locking in Duman and Giro into long term deals when they were borderline best 22). There was also speculation that Bell had to step in and take over conversations with player agents during 2019 as Mark struggled. He was sacked after one year.

I agree though - IF we are in contract trouble, there needs to questions asked. And not just with Bell. Also with our recruitment strategy. If we keep recruiting Victorians with our first-round picks - we are disadvantaged to overpay them to keep them West (ala Gold Coast and GWS). Why is our recruitment team based in Victoria? There should be a number of questions - and not just targeted towards Bell.
 
Yeti said:
The Brayshaw/ Cerra draft was supposed to be a dud draft. Apart from Dow it looks like a pretty good top 10.
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Draft was said to lack depth.

The top 6 were considered were considered equal and could have gone anywhere in the top 6.

As it turned out, the mature age players like Kelly and Fritsch made the draft better than expected.
 
You can't win every trade. We get pick 2 for Weller, we have turned Mayne into Serong, trading pick 3 even got us our Best and Fairest winner last season. Our strike rate has been so much better lately and we have actually been nailing our drafts and developing the young players on our list. Time for some of the pessimists to build a bridge and get over it.
 
Purple Suit said:
You can't win every trade. We get pick 2 for Weller, we have turned Mayne into Serong, trading pick 3 even got us our Best and Fairest winner last season. Our strike rate has been so much better lately and we have actually been nailing our drafts and developing the young players on our list. Time for some of the pessimists to build a bridge and get over it.
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Exactly!

Who cares what we finish on the ladder? We should be thankful we're allowed to participate.
 

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Square Peg said:
OK, I am sure some smart person can explain why a team in our position having salary cap problems is not a big red cross mark against Bell and Bond.
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A smart person usually bases their assessments and explanations on facts. Since there are basically none in the public domain, such an explanation by somone not privvy to the club's financials would be impossible.
 
Monument Hills said:
A smart person usually bases their assessments and explanations on facts. Since there are basically none in the public domain, such an explanation by somone not privvy to the club's financials would be impossible.
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How about the fact we finished 12th? That's the point I think he's getting at... Stands to reason that the clubs paying the most to players should be higher up the ladder than those paying less. Seeing as we have hardly any bona fide stars it's reasonable to assume that we should be paying a low amount. Every second thing the club says is that we're young and developing so we shouldn't be paying the maximum.

You don't actually need ALL the facts to extrapolate the data. It's algebra mate, just cos there's a variable missing doesn't mean this equation is unsolvable (or impossible)...

It's just lazy on your part. Unless someone lays it all out for you it's not worth knowing? How about using your own head?
 
Wigarus said:
How about the fact we finished 12th? That's the point I think he's getting at... Stands to reason that the clubs paying the most to players should be higher up the ladder than those paying less. Seeing as we have hardly any bona fide stars it's reasonable to assume that we should be paying a low amount. Every second thing the club says is that we're young and developing so we shouldn't be paying the maximum.

You don't actually need ALL the facts to extrapolate the data. It's algebra mate, just cos there's a variable missing doesn't mean this equation is unsolvable (or impossible)...

It's just lazy on your part. Unless someone lays it all out for you it's not worth knowing? How about using your own head?
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Are aware there is a salary floor and salary cap yeah?
 
Wigarus said:
How about the fact we finished 12th? That's the point I think he's getting at... Stands to reason that the clubs paying the most to players should be higher up the ladder than those paying less. Seeing as we have hardly any bona fide stars it's reasonable to assume that we should be paying a low amount. Every second thing the club says is that we're young and developing so we shouldn't be paying the maximum.

You don't actually need ALL the facts to extrapolate the data. It's algebra mate, just cos there's a variable missing doesn't mean this equation is unsolvable (or impossible)...

It's just lazy on your part. Unless someone lays it all out for you it's not worth knowing? How about using your own head?
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Ok, you give me the total of the player payments that Freo are paying the players in 2021 and I'll stop being lazy and make comment on it v the max cap and what I think it should be based on the age profile of our players and position on the ladder in 2020. Waiting in anticipation for your reply with that total.
 
Monument Hills said:
Ok, you give me the total of the player payments that Freo are paying the players in 2021 and I'll stop being lazy and make comment on it v the max cap and what I think it should be based on the age profile of our players and position on the ladder in 2020. Waiting in anticipation for your reply with that total.
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Don't hold your breath.
 

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Monument Hills said:
Ok, you give me the total of the player payments that Freo are paying the players in 2021 and I'll stop being lazy and make comment on it v the max cap and what I think it should be based on the age profile of our players and position on the ladder in 2020. Waiting in anticipation for your reply with that total.
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I think you might be seeing trees not the wood. There is one publicly known fact - we finished 12th and have missed finals for five years in a row. If (and I don't know it's true, but if) we are having cap problems despite this, do you think that's a tick against the two football managers we've had in that period, or a cross?
 
Square Peg said:
I think you might be seeing trees not the wood. There is one publicly known fact - we finished 12th and have missed finals for five years in a row. If (and I don't know it's true, but if) we are having cap problems despite this, do you think that's a tick against the two football managers we've had in that period, or a cross?
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How do we know that the cap problems aren't just due to frontloading and wanting to squeeze Mundy in for one more unplanned year?

All MH is sayings is that we don't know, because we don't. I'm not sure how you argue with that.
 
Joao said:
How do we know that the cap problems aren't just due to frontloading and wanting to squeeze Mundy in for one more unplanned year?

All MH is sayings is that we don't know, because we don't. I'm not sure how you argue with that.
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Yes agreed, if looked at in isolation we don't know that it isn't some part of the brilliant master plan and we shouldn't be worried.
If looked at in the context of how well we've gone with managing senior and assistant coaches, trading, player development/retention, fitness/medical, membership, media presence, standing up to the AFL, flag by 2020 etc etc we equally don't know it isn't another piece of evidence of mediocre or worse football club management from the president down.
We don't know but we can each have our suspicions.
 
I think it's only 2020 we have a cap issue; I'd like to think we've positioned our cap to have a go at a free agent next year. We probably also weren't anticipating Mundy to go on again.
 
Joao said:
How do we know that the cap problems aren't just due to frontloading and wanting to squeeze Mundy in for one more unplanned year?
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Hasn't Bell already publicly said as much?

From Trade Radio Q&A

The situation with David Mundy, where does that sit for 2021?
We’ve been having regular discussions with Dave, clearly he’s a club stalwart and had an exceptional year. At the start of the year, we were thinking that at 34, 35 years of age, this would be his last (season). Then he just performed so well and perhaps the season itself suited his game style as well. He ended up finishing fifth in our best and fairest - equal third but was shuffled back to fifth on our countback system. He had an exceptional year, we’ve had regular discussions with him and I’m sure over the next few weeks, maybe even days, we’ll come to an arrangement for him to play on.
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www.fremantlefc.com.au

Peter Bell Q&A on AFL Trade Radio

Peter Bell appeared on AFL Trade Radio to discuss Fremantle's Trade and Draft period, presented by Programmed
www.fremantlefc.com.au www.fremantlefc.com.au

Sure, it could the ramblings of an incompetent trying to cover his own a*se, but seems reasonable to me.
 
Fremantle could have tight salary cap issues within their own plans without being close to the salary cap. If we are trying to pay 95% this season to be able to throw and extra $500,000 on top of a contract offer for 2022 (free agent end of 2021) then that would fit the narrative of both salary cap issues and not actually bursting the salary cap.
 

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Roast Peter Bell

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