Peter Dutton - How Long?

[Ned_Flanders]

This guy is deadset delusional and a genuine threat to our national security. He just loves playing politics with serious national defence issues.

he's beyond delusional - he's the only person on the planet who can possibly believe this:

On Thursday, the opposition leader voiced his support for the American Virginia-class nuclear powered submarines, which he hoped to purchase two of to arrive by 2030.

“I thought we could be in a position to make an announcement around July, August,” Mr Dutton said.

“It was always the intention to not get to the end of the 18 month consultation, but to get parkway through it, make a decision on which submarine we’re going to go with and then use the balance of the 18 months to work out the detail.”

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/peter-duttons-suspicion-on-major-military-deal-involving-america/news-story/31177953307b88d13ed92145137daecc

Given the USN demand for these subs, the only way we get anything before 2040 is if the USN agrees we can take some of the subs that have been slotted for them

I wouldnt hold your breathe on that happening

 

[Gough]

They're just chucking whatever they can at the moment and hoping something sticks. My favourite was the other day when they said labor couldn't do anything with the price of power because they weren't best mates with CEOs like they were, or words to that effect. It was beyond childish.

 

[QuietB]

he's beyond delusional - he's the only person on the planet who can possibly believe this:

On Thursday, the opposition leader voiced his support for the American Virginia-class nuclear powered submarines, which he hoped to purchase two of to arrive by 2030.

“I thought we could be in a position to make an announcement around July, August,” Mr Dutton said.

“It was always the intention to not get to the end of the 18 month consultation, but to get parkway through it, make a decision on which submarine we’re going to go with and then use the balance of the 18 months to work out the detail.”

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/peter-duttons-suspicion-on-major-military-deal-involving-america/news-story/31177953307b88d13ed92145137daecc

Given the USN demand for these subs, the only way we get anything before 2040 is if the USN agrees we can take some of the subs that have been slotted for them

I wouldnt hold your breathe on that happening

Well it is possible.

I mean, except for the fact Australia would have paid for them, Australia would be providing the crew, and there would be a kangaroo painted on the sail they would still essentially be USN submarines.

 

[QuietB]

They're just chucking whatever they can at the moment and hoping something sticks. My favourite was the other day when they said labor couldn't do anything with the price of power because they weren't best mates with CEOs like they were, or words to that effect. It was beyond childish.

Oh the irony - being best mates with the CEO's is the root cause of this mess.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Well it is possible.

I mean, except for the fact Australia would have paid for them, Australia would be providing the crew, and there would be a kangaroo painted on the sail they would still essentially be USN submarines.

joking aside, the USN is running short on its sub rollout, with older classes being rotated within an inch of death to fill the gap

my gut is we will end up with the Astute, and hopefully some loaner Trafalgar's, but who knows what the UK is ultimately prepared to do in what timeline

 

[Sun Ra]

Well it is possible.

I mean, except for the fact Australia would have paid for them, Australia would be providing the crew, and there would be a kangaroo painted on the sail they would still essentially be USN submarines.

Not sure that submarines have sails though......

 

[QuietB]

Not sure that submarines have sails though......

I did my research pal

No idea why it is called a sail

 

[Sun Ra]

I did my research pal

No idea why it is called a sail

Well done QB !

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I did my research pal

No idea why it is called a sail

my guess (guess) its because it juts up from the body of the boat proper, like a sail on a boat.

fwiw according to wiki they are called fins in the UK (sail is a USA thing)

also there are now sail-less submarines (seen vids on the chinese ones, not sure who else has them)

 

[QuietB]

my guess (guess) its because it juts up from the body of the boat proper, like a sail on a boat.

fwiw according to wiki they are called fins in the UK (sail is a USA thing)

also there are now sail-less submarines (seen vids on the chinese ones, not sure who else has them)

My guess would be that it is actually a sail in that it is used to stabilise the boat in the same way a keel would be used to stabilise a yacht. Just a guess though.

 

[QuietB]

Sail (submarine) - Wikipedia

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Australia suddenly swamped by people wanting to be tortured on small island for three years — The Shovel

"It's a pretty enticing way to get into Australia"

www.theshovel.com.au

 

[Pie eyed]

he's beyond delusional - he's the only person on the planet who can possibly believe this:

On Thursday, the opposition leader voiced his support for the American Virginia-class nuclear powered submarines, which he hoped to purchase two of to arrive by 2030.

“I thought we could be in a position to make an announcement around July, August,” Mr Dutton said.

“It was always the intention to not get to the end of the 18 month consultation, but to get parkway through it, make a decision on which submarine we’re going to go with and then use the balance of the 18 months to work out the detail.”

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/peter-duttons-suspicion-on-major-military-deal-involving-america/news-story/31177953307b88d13ed92145137daecc

Given the USN demand for these subs, the only way we get anything before 2040 is if the USN agrees we can take some of the subs that have been slotted for them

I wouldnt hold your breathe on that happening

Delusional to the point he thinks his s**tstain of a Non-Government is still in power.

Labor has every right to cancel the half witted nuclear Subs deal.
If that jeopardises the AUKUS pact then it was not a pacts arseh*le to begin with.
If I was Albo I would be on the phone to Macron pronto, then Bidon. Bidon will at least remember Albo's name.
heck the blond campaigner in the UK. He is a Morrison clone. Contact his replacement in good time.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Delusional to the point he thinks his sh*tstain of a Non-Government is still in power.

Labor has every right to cancel the half witted nuclear Subs deal.
If that jeopardises the AUKUS pact then it was not a pacts a-hole to begin with.
If I was Albo I would be on the phone to Macron pronto, then Bidon. Bidon will at least remember Albo's name.
damn the blond campaigner in the UK. He is a Morrison clone. Contact his replacement in good time.

we actually dont have a deal, we have an agreement to talk about getting a deal

we are still to even get the nod from the US Congress, who are concerned about us potentially violating the NPT

 

[Festerz]

Outgoing SA Senator Rex Patrick will be sorely missed by anyone who values hard work and accountability from their politicians.

With just 3 weeks until he officially loses his job he's still holding Canberra to account.

Here he is in a series of well crafted posts ripping Peter Dutton a new one over his BS claims about the AUKUS nuclear submarine deal.

For the record Rex Patrick has served in both Australian submarines and done a service tour in a US nuclear submarine so he actually knows what he is talking about - unlike Dutton who has today broken defence security protocols and embarrassed both the Australian and US Government by releasing confidential international defence negotiation details (TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT) for political point scoring:

 

[Sun Ra]

I win - Sail (submarine) - Wikipedia

Outgoing SA Senator Rex Patrick will be sorely missed by anyone who values hard work and accountability from their politicians.

With just 3 weeks until he officially loses his job he's still holding Canberra to account.

Here he is in a new one in a series of well crafted posts ripping Peter Dutton a new one over his claims about the AUKUS nuclear submarine deal.

For the record Rex Patrick has served in both Australian submarines and done a service tour in a US nuclear submarine so he actually knows what he is talking about - unlike Dutton who has today broken defence security protocols and embarrassed both the Australian and US Government by releasing confidential defence negotiation details for political point scoring:

Damn shame Rex won't be around in the Senate. One of the good ones. I missed that - who took his spot ? Pardon my ignorance.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Damn shame Rex won't be around in the Senate. One of the good ones. I missed that - who took his spot ? Pardon my ignorance.

the two xenaphon peeps (Patrick and Griff) have been knocked out by the greens, and most likely the libs

only got 2.1% of the primary - disappointingly low for the great work he did in his term

I have no idea what sa voters were thinking

 

[NSWCROW]

 

[Rob R]

the two xenaphon peeps (Patrick and Griff) have been knocked out by the greens, and most likely the libs

only got 2.1% of the primary - disappointingly low for the great work he did in his term

I have no idea what sa voters were thinking

Well said, Xenophon was a sell-out but Patrick seemed to one of the smartest and most independent senators (not that that is a high bar)

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Heisenberg_]

only got 2.1% of the primary - disappointingly low for the great work he did in his term

I have no idea what sa voters were thinking

Mark Dreyfus could do worse then trying to get Rex Patrick involved with the ICAC

 

[Festerz]

Damn shame Rex won't be around in the Senate. One of the good ones. I missed that - who took his spot ? Pardon my ignorance.

The Libs got an extra seat and Greens scored an extra seat too.

SA senate elect:

Libs- 3
ALP - 2
Greens-1

 

[Number37]

The Libs got an extra seat and Greens scored an extra seat too.

SA senate elect:

Libs- 3
ALP - 2
Greens-1

It was pretty close between the LNP and One Nation for the last available seat.
South Aussies not giving Rex Patrick another go and almost ending up with One Nation representation. That would have have learned them.

 

[Festerz]

Mark Dreyfus could do worse then trying to get Rex Patrick involved with the ICAC

My view, and one I have expressed elsewhere is that the new Federal Government should undertake an independent and sharply focussed (and relatively quick) review of Australia's immediate strategic defence priorities and commitments in the light of the rapidly changing international situation, particularly in the Pacific region and with a focus on maritime defence needs for the next 20-30 years while the AUKUS nuclear submarine concept is properly developed, costed and implemented.

This review should be chaired by Rex Patrick who has a unique combination of hands-on naval experience- including within the mine field of defence procurement - and a good understanding of the current defence needs of Australia within the current political and economic climate. A no BS chair who can rapidly sort out the wheat from the chaff that comes from the defence bureaucrats and present something to the Government that might actually be achievable in our lifetimes.

We simply cannot have a situation where Australia's maritime waters are left undefended for the next 20-30 years while the Dutton brain fart idea of nuclear subs - something Australia has neither the available skills nor the infrastructure at hand to successfully implement - gets fleshed out into to something remotely achievable.

 

[QuietB]

My view, and one I have expressed elsewhere is that the new Federal Government should undertake an independent and sharply focussed (and relatively quick) review of Australia's immediate strategic defence priorities and commitments in the light of the rapidly changing international situation, particularly in the Pacific region and with a focus on maritime defence needs for the next 20-30 years while the AUKUS nuclear submarine concept is properly developed, costed and implemented.

This review should be chaired by Rex Patrick who has a unique combination of hands-on naval experience and a good understanding of the current defence needs of Australia within the current political and economic climate. A no BS chair who can rapidly sort out the wheat from the chaff that comes from the defence bureaucrats and present something to the Government that might actually be achievable in our lifetimes.

We simply cannot have a situation where Australia's maritime waters are left undefended for the next 20-30 years while the Dutton brain fart idea of nuclear subs - something Australia has neither the available skills nor the infrastructure at hand to successfully implement - gets fleshed out into to something remotely achievable.

Australia is the safest place on earth.

1. It is not possible for anyone to invade Australia - the USA have tried and failed in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan to name a few, the Russians have tried and failed in Afghanistan, Ukraine, China are too scared to try in Taiwan (noteably an island - China would have dealt with Taiwan decades ago if they were not), Iraq failed, Argentina failed, etc.
2. Australia is an island. This means we are 100 times safer than any of the places mentioned above (maybe only 80 times safer than Taiwan).
3. It is not possible to even build a navy to defend Australia's maritime waters. Half a dozen submarines is a total waste of time. You would need about 10,000 ships and 10,000 submarines, maybe more.
4. Even if it was possible to invade Australia no one is going to allow it - especially the USA. Australia is one of their biggest and most reliable "corporations".

Australia's defence policy has nothing to do with "defence". It is 100% forward projection as the USA's sheriff in SE Asia.

If Australia was serious about defence we'd be doing what NZ does, mostly relying on our island status and isolation and keeping our heads down. Maybe to appease the USA we might introduce some stuff that is actually useful in defending Australia as opposed to supporting the USA.

Right now if someone (China presumably) invaded Australia we'd all sit around in pubs wondering WTF was happening, then the invaders would get bored of maintaining supply lines that are literally thousands and thousands of km's long (if they were ever established), and frankly Taiwan would take the opportunity to take the China mainland.

IT IS NEVER HAPPENING. EVER.

 

[Festerz]

Australia is the safest place on earth.

1. It is not possible for anyone to invade Australia - the USA have tried and failed in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan to name a few, the Russians have tried and failed in Afghanistan, Ukraine, China are too scared to try in Taiwan (noteably an island - China would have dealt with Taiwan decades ago if they were not), Iraq failed, Argentina failed, etc.
2. Australia is an island. This means we are 100 times safer than any of the places mentioned above (maybe only 80 times safer than Taiwan).
3. It is not possible to even build a navy to defend Australia's maritime waters. Half a dozen submarines is a total waste of time. You would need about 10,000 ships and 10,000 submarines, maybe more.
4. Even if it was possible to invade Australia no one is going to allow it - especially the USA. Australia is one of their biggest and most reliable "corporations".

Australia's defence policy has nothing to do with "defence". It is 100% forward projection as the USA's sheriff in SE Asia.

If Australia was serious about defence we'd be doing what NZ does, mostly relying on our island status and isolation and keeping our heads down. Maybe to appease the USA we might introduce some stuff that is actually useful in defending Australia as opposed to supporting the USA.

Right now if someone (China presumably) invaded Australia we'd all sit around in pubs wondering WTF was happening, then the invaders would get bored of maintaining supply lines that are literally thousands and thousands of km's long (if they were ever established), and frankly Taiwan would take the opportunity to take the China mainland.

IT IS NEVER HAPPENING. EVER.

Whoa. Settle down.

WTF mentioned 'invasion'? My post certainly didn't.

And yet you mentioned it half a dozen times in response to my post.

Way to miss the point mate.

This is 2022 not 1942.

No one is talking about imminent invasion from China or anyone else when they talk about maritime defence.

They are talking about our total dependence on maritime trade routes for our economic survival - exports and imports. Like the fact that, with the disappearance of refining capability, we only have 3 weeks of petroleum supply available for a continent that is totally dependent on road transport. As we are seeing right now where, due to covid impacts and recent floods, the lack of consistent supply of essential grocery items is causing chaos in supermarkets across the country.

It should go without saying that we are an island nation integrated into the rest of the world. Our grains and textiles are exported to Asia and imported back in the form of things like clothing and flour - all by sea. Our metals and minerals exported overseas to pay for the manufactured items that make our farms, mines and businesses work. etc.

Now imagine if those supply blockages were imposed between Australia and the rest of the world.

Ensuring the security of our borders is vitally important for us to survive as a country.

And that's where, as an island, Australia's capacity to protect our trade routes from disruption - via blockade or other means - is our biggest defensive threat.

NOT invasion.