Teams Philadelphia Eagles - The Gold Standard

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BeinPurplenGreen

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Three and out, just like his so called magic offense...

I disagree with you in saying cutting Herremans, Mathis, Cole and Foles was the bigger problem. Apart from Mathis, all of those moves were absolutely the right thing to do. Herremans is now on the street, Foles is on the bench and Cole has 3.5 sacks and has been a non-factor for the Colts. Cole was in decline and had a big cap hit. The bigger issue was letting Jackson go for nothing, not paying to keep Maclin and trading McCoy (which in itself was not a bad idea given his cap hit) and then signing Murray for just as much money.

I would argue Jenkins has been a great signing in FA, Barwin was a great signing, Mathews has been solid albeit injury prone and Thurmond has been solid as well. In the draft Matthews, Hicks, Rowe and Agholor will all be starters for the team going forward. And can I also remind you Roseman absolutely butchered the 2011 draft when he was GM (which he apparently is now, once again) - Watkins, Jarrett, Marsh, Matthews, Henery and co. I'm not sure where they go from here. It seems certain that the first round pick this year will be used on a QB which isn't great news considering how poor the draft class is.
I can't agree with this analysis. Not one of the names you cite have been "great" signings. Also both Sproles and Jenkins were signed when Roseman was in charge of recruiting and especially FAs.

No way can you say at this early stage that either Rowe or brick hands Agholor will be starters in an even half decent NFL calibre team. I like Rowe, but he has been burned badly against better WRs, and has had only a few games so far. You also ignore the fundamental recruiting mistakes that are solely on Chuppa - Alonso is a bust at this stage, Austin is an absolute bust, Cooper is a spud, Maxwell is an overpaid steaming heap, DeMarco has done nothing and he couldn't pick a kicker to save his life. Far from being a great talent evaluator, Chuppa fundamentally failed to grasp the key role of elite talent in the NFL. System is secondary to, and must always be tweaked to make best use of, the elite talents on your squad.

Best of all, in his mad pursuit of "culture", Chuppa got nothing (not even a conditional 6th round draft pick exerciseable only in leap years) for Jackson or Maclin or Mathis, and a banged up lb for McCoy. That is no return for cutting or giving away what was a generationally special group of key position players. Just really, really dumb player management by a guy who thought his system was so super special it could beat talent, and that the rest of the NFL couldn't figure him out.

I don't know where you get the info blaming Roseman for the 2011 selections either, back then Reid very openly called the draft shots. Reid certainly took direct credit for both the first and second round picks that year. And if you want to talk drafting busts, I think Smith from last year, and much of this year's draft, shows Chuppa to be just as bad. Worst of all was the classless way "genius" Chuppa tried to pretend on Monday that he didn't have much to do with player recruiting and wasn't the GM, and threw the scouts and recruiters under the bus. Not a stand up move, and not how you get good talent into the key lower levels of your scouting department.

Local media is saying Lurie met with Chuppa this morning and said he'd have to give up player management and just coach. Apparently Chuppa didn't take it well, and Lurie thought about it and then decided to dump him outright. Smart move IMHO, even if Chuppa chup goes on to succeed elsewhere as a coach, he had lost the core of this team, and much of the city. Gets the Eagles in early on the coach search, and might help quell some of the disharmony that is so evident across the roster.

Will be years before we are competitive again, thanks to Chuppa's ego driven destruction of the team, but at least we won't be gimmicky and shallow.
 

nobbyiscool

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Three and out, just like his so called magic offense...

Will be years before we are competitive again, thanks to Chuppa's ego driven destruction of the team, but at least we won't be gimmicky and shallow.
:D:D:D

And I thought I'd taken a pretty serious whack at Chip!

Great post though - there's not much, if anything there that I don't agree with.
 

Southerntakeover

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On Agholor- don't want to call him a bust yet, but very concerning. Shows very little ability to adjust to the NFL game, very little ability to catch in traffic. Havent really seen him make anyone miss (other than a play in the first quarter of this weeks game). Ankle injury held him back, sure. He wasn't doing a ton before hand.

Really, I'm not sure that he's shown anything more than Huff did.
 

BeinPurplenGreen

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Barwin was Chip's first off season. A need created by the shift to a 3-4.

The decision to move to a 3-4 is one which we now very strongly need to consider. I was not convinced it was the right move at the time. We actually have the makings of a pretty decent 4-3.

Cox is a natural 4-3 pass rushing DT. He could be a hall of famer at that position. He's wasted as a 3-4 gap controller. Graham/Curry natural pass rushing DEs. Really just need some additional DTs to fill in there. Would think Thornton could fill convert back.

At LB, we still don't have a natural 3-4 pass rusher. Barwin a 3-4 player who perhaps wouldn't fit the 4-3, but for the most part I think our personnel favours the 4-3.
Very interesting points.

Filling the roles of line coaches on both sides and defensive co-ordinator with capable people will be among the most vital steps the team makes this offseason. I too think Cox will be much better in a 4-3, and the next tier guys alongside him will be less exposed in that system too.

Most important thing is to get that d off the field more. The Chuppa pace offense and "time of posession don't matter" attitude leads to guys like Cox and Jenkins having to play over 1000 snaps already this year, meaning they are being asked to play an extra two whole games each year compared to the average D. Almost a guarantee of wear and tear and early career ending injuries...
 

BeinPurplenGreen

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I'm making a temporary comeback to the NFL board to comment on this.

Me? I'm glad it happened. Even before this disastrous season, and going back to the offseason about 22 months ago, I felt myself losing my team. Kelly, for reasons that I always believed were to do with power rather than personnel, blew up everything that was "our" team.

People will talk about the big names ad nauseum - Maclin, McCoy, Jackson. But they were only a small part of the problem. The bigger problem was giving up "heart and soul" players like Herremans, Matthis, Cole, and perhaps to a lesser extent Foles.

And for what? Nearly every single move he made in player personnel failed to pay off - on the FA side, Murray, Mathews, Maxwell; on the trading side Alonso and Bradford; on the drafting side Smith, Huff, Agholar, Matthews to an extent - none of them worked. (I know he was only formally given oversight last season, but you can't tell me he didn't have a hell of a lot of oversight the season before.) I'm sure I'm missing one or two players, but the only personnel move of the last 2 seasons that I would suggest has worked was Sproles.

Which brought me to this season, when even dating back to the first couple of weeks, I felt myself falling out of love with my team. It wasn't the typical being angry and frustrated - it was deeper than that, it was a complete antipathy towards my team. I've still watched them every week, but I found myself rolling my eyes moreso than swearing at the tv. I'd just lost the will to care, because having given up our heart and soul players, who was I really cheering for (or not)? I couldn't even really enjoy the Pats win a couple of weeks ago because, unlike people here who thought it was a great win, it was the worst of wins - it was the kind of win where the scoreboard might mask some issues, but your eyes told you were still absolutely prevalent.

This was all down to Chip Kelly - it was no longer "our team", it had become Chip Kelly's little experimental play thing, to see whether he as "the genius" could single-handedly revolutionise the modern NFL.

Perhaps Kelly could've had a successful career as a Head Coach only - but if he wasn't prepared to separate personnel control from the head coaching position, he had to go, and I'm glad he's gone.

With Kelly gone, I will get that love for my team back. And I will do it knowing that there is more pain to come. This will likely be a 2 year+ rebuild because, apart from the probability of finding a coach who puts the QB under centre, there is no real quick fix here. Aside from Fletcher Cox, there are no stars on this team. Our defence is probably adequate, but has holes at corner, and Alonso is an outrageous bust when you look at him in pass protection.

And on our offence? Apart from an aging Peters, Kelce, Johnson who is ok, but not the star you hope for with a 4th overall pick (albeit one from what has become a rubbish draft), and maaaaybe Ertz who has never really been used properly, there's nothing there. I don't automatically say a new coach will fix the RB situation, because Murray had one great season behind a great offensive line - what is there to really fix there?

We need to find a QB, stat. We need 2 new guards. We need wide receivers who are of different moulds, not all this same mediocre "cut" of player who had speed but couldn't catch (oh, sorry, Riley Cooper is a different "cut" :rolleyes: )

SNIP
Great post mate, hope you decide to stick around the board a bit more, your posts on the Eagles have almost always been thought provoking.

I agree that he will dedicate himself to proving he really is an NFL genius and the Eagles got it wrong.

The sad part is that the Titans right now have so much better young key position talent than the Eagles, especially if they draft and trade well this year. Fact is, given the mess Chuppa has left behind, my 91 year old Australian grandmother could coach the Titans to a better record than the Eagles next year and the year after. And she's been dead for 6 years...
 

Southerntakeover

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Yeah, let's be real. With the state our o-line is in we could be in for quite the long haul.

Move Peters on and we've got officially one player of starting quality on the offensive line. Two if Kelce can recapture his past form, but I'm increasingly concerned by his play and lack of size.

People can talk all they want about 4-12. That was a team which was devastated by offensive line injuries. The offensive line health was the predominant reason in our NFC East Championship the next year (as opposed to Coaching).

In all of that time, we added no talent to the offensive line. It got old, and we got screwed.
 

nobbyiscool

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Great post mate, hope you decide to stick around the board a bit more, your posts on the Eagles have almost always been thought provoking.
I did always intend to stick around the Eagles thread, cos the people I had a problem with tend not to post in this thread... I guess though, the aforementioned antipathy I felt towards the team this season put an end to that. (It was certain posters that initially stopped me posting here, not the Eagles)

Moving into a new era, I feel like this team can re-engage me again, despite me (and others) having already said that we're in for more pain before we see some gains.
 

Southerntakeover

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I did always intend to stick around the Eagles thread, cos the people I had a problem with tend not to post in this thread... I guess though, the aforementioned antipathy I felt towards the team this season put an end to that. (It was certain posters that initially stopped me posting here, not the Eagles)

Moving into a new era, I feel like this team can re-engage me again, despite me (and others) having already said that we're in for more pain before we see some gains.
I can relate to what you said about antipathy this year.

It really felt like we put a group of players on the field this year, rather than a team we'd built.
 

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rumply

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I can relate to what you said about antipathy this year.

It really felt like we put a group of players on the field this year, rather than a team we'd built.

Yeah I think we can all agree on that, it's been a very uninspiring year allround
 

Southerntakeover

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Sean Payton being mentioned as well. Is McDermott getting credit for Rivera's work though?
You do have to wonder. I'm a bit more sceptical of DCs who have only been in the job a short while with superior talent. How much of it is the coach?

I was very high on Gus Bradley for example, but in retrospect, a lot of the credit belongs with the recruiting staff at Seattle.
 

Warsaw

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Will be peak Philadelphia if he gets another NFL coaching gig and succeeds.

Wish he just left on his own, and I could hate him till the end of time.

Still wanted another year - believe in Chip the Coach, not the GM. But can understand why Lurie fired him when he didn't want to relinquish power, and could understand why Chip didn't want to.

Latest reports on him not wanting to be the personnel guy next time around hurts even more.

******* mess.
 

Warsaw

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Zealbee

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The new coach will fare no better until we find our franchise QB. Pure and simple. We can be competitive but we will never win a Super Bowl without one. This couldn't have happened at a worse time.
 

nobbyiscool

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So the consensus in here is that he should of been fired? Guess I am alone. I thought he deserved another year but had to be stripped of his GM powers.
It's a moot point though - the 2 roles became inseparable in Kelly's mind, which is what ultimately led to him being sacked before week 17 (according to reports that we've probably all seen this afternoon).

I probably wouldn't have come to loathe him so much in the first place if he hadn't have been given absolute authority over the team.
 

PhatHQ

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Very well put mate!
I think if the O line is strengthened & they get a Cooks type to take the top of a defence it would open up more space for all of those dropped catches to not happen. Kelly has put together, almost, a brand new team on offence & defence with special teams the only real constant from last season to this.
Another offseason to get the chemistry into the team & a better Eagles outfit under Bradfords leadership will be back in the hunt.
Someone will be accountable for a lost season, whether it is players or a coach, to satisfy the "why" question & everyone will move on. Kelly should not be worried until next seasons H&A results... The same will cost him his job.
Doh! ......
 

Broken

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This was all down to Chip Kelly - it was no longer "our team", it had become Chip Kelly's little experimental play thing, to see whether he as "the genius" could single-handedly revolutionise the modern NFL.
We experienced a similar thing with the Steve Spurrier mistake. He gutted the roster, brought in his guys and we had to re-stock our roster to get it back to an NFL level, which required the 2nd coming of Joe Gibbs to help set it right. I don't think the Eagles current roster is as bad as ours was post-Spurrier, but there will be some undoing of the Kelly regime in the short term.

I hope, for the Eagles and even the NFC Easts sake (I'd rather the Redskins come out on top of an ultra competitive division than a piss poor one), that you guys make the right hire. You've lost some good football players who didn't fit the Kelly system, or who just didn't get along with him, but you still have a talented roster who, with the right hire, could turn your team around quickly. That might be the best thing the Eagles did since putting a hole in the cheerleaders wall for the visiting teams to have a peek :p
 
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