Philosophy: Neeld vs Bailey

LouisCK

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I know we're all sick of getting excited by draft picks and the rest of it, but I'm loving Neeld's strategy so far.

He's not been afraid to bring in mature players in their prime to fill holes. This is crucial, because it means the players can really start playing to the right gameplan. He clearly did this with Magner and Couch last year, as well as Clark. This year he's nabbed Shannon Byrnes to fill a need, and is targetting Dawes and Wellingham for the same reason. Mature, capable, players who won't dominate - but WILL allow the youngsters to learn how he wants the game played, because they fill a role the young guys simply can't. Bailey, on the other hand, preferred throwing the young guys to the wolves in roles they just aren't physically up to playing.

Then there's the youngsters themselves, have a look at Bailey's early picks, and there's a very common thread: Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Cook, Watts, Morton.... all of them lacked sufficient size to play the roles Bailey had them in. Scully is still shirking contests at GWS, Trengove is struggling with OP because he has clearly been told to bulk up a bit... Gys, Cook and Morton are all potentially on the outer and Watts is progressing well now, but only because he clearly can't play as a key forward (yet?).

No such illusions with the players Neeld has already brought in: Taggert, Viney and Hogan are all tough, athletic and ready to play. Viney could probably be claimed as a Bailey choice, but in reality he was a complete no brainer of a decision no matter who was in charge. Getting him for 26 is the real bargain of this entire draft. Hogan is friggin 98kg as a 17 year old, yet kicked arse in the sprints and beep test as well. These are guys who know how they play football, and have the bodies to match it in the AFL already. We'll possibly end up with Wines too, another tough ball winner.

Where I really see the differentiation, is when you look at the skinny guys that Neeld IS prepared to play and draft. Take Blease for example, he's skinny yeah - but Neeld will play him on the proviso he attacks like a man possessed and runs hard and fast. Barry seems very similar in this regard. I think we're starting to see what Neeld is building as far as the midfield goes in particular. He wants hard nosed players who will not just win the clearances, but dominate the clearances and make the other team shit dacks. And if you're skinny, you had better be fast and you had better be skillful, or there's just no room for you in the side.

Look at the guys who were playing well under Neeld: Jones, Clark, Howe, Rivers, Grimes... all of them are tough players who put the team first and play without fear of injury. I am certain that isn't a coincidence.
 

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Biffinator

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#4
Good thread. Would definitely read again
There clearly has been a change in philosophy. We were on the road to nowhwere. I am puzzled by the impending decision re Gysberts but they see a lot more of him than me.

So happy with Hogan. Nothing beats a (potential) CHF.
 

Super Demon

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#5
There clearly has been a change in philosophy. We were on the road to nowhwere. I am puzzled by the impending decision re Gysberts but they see a lot more of him than me.

So happy with Hogan. Nothing beats a (potential) CHF.
Could you imagine what Neeld must have said behind closed doors to his new coaching staff about his predecessor?

We all might have a fairly good idea. :mad:

Gentleman

"The Melbourne Football Club Is Under New Management"

Thank Goodness :)
 

autocol

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#6
My favourite thing about the Hogan recruitment is that obviously Neeld doesn't feel like he's coaching for his job next year, (or if he does, he's backing himself to survive it). This is not a decision made by a coaching team with short term survival in mind. It's the decision of a team with a goal of long term success, so obviously the football department has confidence in the management to do the right thing. It's the first time in a long time the board and the FD have trusted each other at the Dees, and it's a great development!
 

demonfan9

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#7
There definately is a different strategy and I am pleased with how Neeld has approached it thus far, but we must remember that this time 4-5 years ago we were all frothing over Bailey and the super young kids we had drafted who were going to turn us into a powerhouse.

So I will save my adulation for when we actually have success.
 

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LouisCK

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I am an unabashed Daniher fan. He did some pretty amazing things considering our issues at the time, and he continues to do well at West Coast obviously.

I was glad we hired another suitably unstable individual when we got Neeld. There's definitely a place for 'crazy' in AFL coaching. Could argue that there is a correlation between insane coaches and winning flags.
 
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#15
Good thread. I just can't believe we put up with Bailey and his soft attitude for as long as we did. It really is about time we had a no nonsense coach. I know it'll take a while for us to properly develop, that there are no guarantees in footy etc, but by goodness Neeld has the right attitude. Exactly what I look for in a coach.
 
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#16
We are pinning a lot on Bailey, but are we certain it was 100% his plan, I remember big Jim was quite keen on getting in the best young talent, and was very excited about Scully and Trengove.
 

Wonaeamirri33

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#17
I am an unabashed Daniher fan. He did some pretty amazing things considering our issues at the time, and he continues to do well at West Coast obviously.
Yeah, as I've often said, looking back at the state of things at the club as it was then, Daniher had to keep topping up the way he did, because the infrastructure simply wasn't there to pursue a proper rebuild - and that of course includes the FD, which was manifestly sub-par right up until the end of 2011.

We obviously found this out over the previous four years when we decided we would try to rebuild. Now we're finally in the right shape to do it properly.

I was glad we hired another suitably unstable individual when we got Neeld. There's definitely a place for 'crazy' in AFL coaching. Could argue that there is a correlation between insane coaches and winning flags.
How true.

After all, General George S. Patton was a little nuts. But this guy's completely out of his mind!

We can't fail! ;)
 

00Stinger

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#18
There is a change to the philosophy, but the sad fact is after 1 season in charge they are level pegging with 4 wins each, a disappointing season and many 60+ point floggings.

I'll reserve judgement until I see results. Remember after the 2008 draft all the hype on here?
 

maxmustard

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#20
There is a change to the philosophy, but the sad fact is after 1 season in charge they are level pegging with 4 wins each, a disappointing season and many 60+ point floggings.

I'll reserve judgement until I see results. Remember after the 2008 draft all the hype on here?
Agree with that mostly. The proof will be in the pudding and I'm holding off judgements of Neeld good or otherwise at this point. 2012 was terrible, but maybe we had to go backwards to go forward. After the shit we've been through, it's good to have something to be positive about.
 

00Stinger

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#21
Agree with that mostly. The proof will be in the pudding and I'm holding off judgements of Neeld good or otherwise at this point. 2012 was terrible, but maybe we had to go backwards to go forward. After the shit we've been through, it's good to have something to be positive about.
I totally agree.

The problem is there are too many spruiking off on here after we have signed Burns, Viney & Hogan. It makes us sound like Richmond supporters, during the season we get flogged and during the off-season we go on with shit
 

maxmustard

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#22
I totally agree.

The problem is there are too many spruiking off on here after we have signed Burns, Viney & Hogan. It makes us sound like Richmond supporters, during the season we get flogged and during the off-season we go on with shit
Yeah agree, tiger fans end up in meltdown because of their ridiculous summer expectations. That fine line between optimism and delusion.
 

Viney

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#23
There definately is a different strategy and I am pleased with how Neeld has approached it thus far, but we must remember that this time 4-5 years ago we were all frothing over Bailey and the super young kids we had drafted who were going to turn us into a powerhouse.

So I will save my adulation for when we actually have success.
I touched on this in another thread, and the clear difference in philosophy is easy to see

demonfan9 you are correct - we did froth (with good reason)

Watts, Scully, Trengove, Tapscott, Blease was / is mouth watering

These guys will still all develop into top line talent IMO

Then there was Gysberts, Cook etc. who were all a little bit of "what the?" selections, along probably with Strauss as well

Later picks netted us blokes like Fitzy - again, long term prospect

The issue with these guys is they were all (mostly) long term propspects

The majority of them needed MULTIPLE preseasons before they'd ever have a chance of dominating

We drafted too many "3 years / 5 years" time players

What Neeld is drafting is ready made players

Let's look at his record thus far:

Clark - say no more
Sellar - was exceptionally servicable
Tynan / Taggert - both ready made, just hit with injury
Magner - was great for a mature rookie in his 1st season - ready to go day 1
Couch - not a great impact but ready made
Williams - man mountain - ready made
Sheahan - project(ish) player who was a ROOKIE PICK - exactly where project players should be taken (not with Pick 12 in ND)

This draft - Viney (ready made), Hogan (ready made), likely Ollie Wines (ready made), Dom Barry - should play games next year

I'd prefer to take a bloke like Daniel Rich who will give you 5 bloody good years before Lucas Cook's even pulled on a jumper, if you know what I mean
 
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#24
Grimes (#14, 07), Bail (#64, 08), Blease (#17, 08), Watts (#1, 08), Trengove (#2, 09), Howe (#33, 10), McDonald (#53, 10) All 'skinny' kids brought in under Bailey's watch who all look to be seriously good players for MFC for years to come. Drafting isn't an exact science and every club makes mistakes. We have made our fair share but we still made some great picks and drafted some great talent in the Bailey years and lets not forget that. Keep the faith with Cook and Gysberts. It takes some kids time to develop into an AFL standard players but the rewards are there for clubs who keep the faith. If you draft with the sole goal of instant rewards in mind then you end up with a list like Carlton's. Plenty of good midfielders and talent on paper but a total imbalance when it comes to quality talls.

Having said that the thought of Viney, Tapscott and Hogan on the same team does get me slightly aroused..
 
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