Analysis Pick 1: Jason Horne-Francis vs rest of the field

[Psicosis]

In the years I’ve been reading KM’s stuff, what has become abundantly clear is:

- His focus on data over actually watching prospects (likely due to never playing the sport).
- His comparisons are generally poor and skewed to one attribute that he gets obsessed with.
- His stubbornness removes any ability to revise his opinions once formulated.

 

[DocSholl]

Reminds me of a young N. Buckley actually.

It's the gait and the ball drop I reckon.

 

[DocSholl]

In the years I’ve been reading KM’s stuff, what has become abundantly clear is:

- His focus on data over actually watching prospects (likely due to never playing the sport).
- His comparisons are generally poor and skewed to one attribute that he gets obsessed with.
- His stubbornness removes any ability to revise his opinions once formulated.

Don't forget the Collingwood bias. He is not judging JHF independently as a draft prospect, he's judging him in comparison to Daicos.

 

[rickety]

It's the gait and the ball drop I reckon.

For sure, and the attacking run

 

[pupstar]

He doesn't do the give and get type disposal that Daicos does. So 20 disposals could be 30 if you do that instinctively. We normally see disposals as high impact, but some like Mitchell for example, can get a ton of the ball and not really do much damage. I think Daicos is better than Mitchell, but imo has that stat padding trait.

Jy does that sporadically, in some games when he dishes a lot of short range handpasses he blows way over 30 disposals. It has it's pros and cons, but not all disposals have the same weight.

LDU is similar to Horne in that when he gets possession he will duck and weave through traffic and then kick a 40-50m kick, he misses the opportunity to gather 3+ disposals in that passage of play, but when he gets it right, that has a lot more impact than at times over-possessing of the footy.

Daicos has not even played a game and you think he is better than a 3 time BF winner and Brownlow winner Think he needs some runs on the board before we talk him up to much.

 

[Tas]

Daicos has not even played a game and you think he is better than a 3 time BF winner and Brownlow winner Think he needs some runs on the board before we talk him up to much.

Go watch him play, his kicking is far superior. Danger and Fyfe are champions as well, their kicking is shyte too.

 

[shinboner magic]

So KM thinks JHF plays like Ed curnow from blues.
Hmmmm the guy is cooked

 

[winalotroos]

The latest from Nightmares-------

I see the point being with Horne-Francis that in every game he has played this year, the way he has impacted games more than anything has been with his pressure, tackling and second and third efforts.

The Horne-Francis supporters continue to miss this point and recognise how this is in fact how every week he exerts his influence.

On Daicos v Horne-Francis, Collingwood would like for Horne-Francis to be picked before Daicos. It saves them points. That said, Daicos has outperformed Horne-Francis this year and is this draft's best talent.

On Horne-Francis' kicking as that has been mentioned a few times. He's in the average category for me. It's not a weapon to his game. His kick placement can lack consistency - we only need to look back at what he was doing last week overshooting targets. He can also rush his disposals and not lower his eyes at times, though is reasonable in this regard and much better than a say Roberts. Once at AFL level, I'd be surprised if anyone refers to his kicking as a weapon to his game. It's his tackling/pressure/second and third efforts. With as those tertiary strengths being his ball winning on the move and further down that list his aerial marking forward of centre.

The point I've been making and I can't speak for others is that while I'd agree with anyone who says he's a top-2 pick this year on quality, there seems to be a widespread misunderstanding as to how he impacts games.

He's more like Hugh Greenwood than he Patrick Dangerfield or whatever fanciful player comparisons or even stylistic comparisons people are coming up with. And that should be pretty obvious. Dangerfield is a ball winner and all offense. He doesn't work hard both ways. Horne-Francis is a genuine two way player who impacts games defensively more than he does offensively. That's what makes him special and unique because there aren't a lot who do that.

was this before or after yesterdays game, to say JHF kicking is average is just plain dumb

 

[Reagan Smash]

was this before or after yesterdays game, to say JHF kicking is average is just plain dumb

After the game.
He Posted it this morning

 

[winalotroos]

After the game.
He Posted it this morning

it has been hard to take him seriously lately, he couldn’t have watch the game to say these things about a kid playing with men in a final and under rating him just shows how bad he is going.

 

[hoffseason gains]

I do think JHF is an inconsistent kick, I would understand that criticism, at his best his kick can be elite, and at his worst it can be a bad turnover or a missed kick blazing away.

But 1. this isn’t really a concern of a kid playing in a high pressure senior finals game and 2. it is a bit ironic seeing that KM loves Lukosius who while is definitely a better kick than JHF, is prone to a few absolute stinkers from time to time trying to take the game on. Players like this are always trying to create something and that is why sometimes it can be bad.

Really though when JHF played against people his own age in a relatively low pressure game, he didn’t really miss a target and his kick was a legit weapon.

He’s obviously able to do great things with ball in hand and I’d think anyone would take that along with his frame and athletic ability, even despite the occasional turnover or miss kick.

 

[pupstar]

Go watch him play, his kicking is far superior. Danger and Fyfe are champions as well, their kicking is sh*te too.

That does not make him a better player He is miles off Mitchell at the moment. Thats like saying Mckenzie is a better player than Danger cause he is a better kick. There are dozens of players going around that are better kick than both Danger and Fyfe but they are definitely not better players . Mitchell is a much better player than he is made out to be.

 

[Tas]

That does not make him a better player He is miles off Mitchell at the moment. Thats like saying Mckenzie is a better player than Danger cause he is a better kick. There are dozens of players going around that are better kick than both Danger and Fyfe but they are definitely not better players . Mitchell is a much better player than he is made out to be.

Ugh.

We are comparing draftees and what kind of players they resemble, of course I am not comparing their playing careers. I just said he accumulates like Mitchell but his field kicking is obviously superior.

Yeah, lets not talk about any draftee because they haven't played in the AFL yet. * me.

 

[Reagan Smash]

The kid is a part time footballer who works in a milk factory during the day and plays against grown ass men.

He should thrive in a full time professional environment and only get better

 

[pupstar]

Ugh.

We are comparing draftees and what kind of players they resemble, of course I am not comparing their playing careers. I just said he accumulates like Mitchell but his field kicking is obviously superior.

Yeah, lets not talk about any draftee because they haven't played in the AFL yet. fu** me.

Reading your post again you said he is BETTER than Mitchell but i must have got my wires crossed some how

 

[Tas]

Reading your post again you said he is BETTER than Mitchell but i must have got my wires crossed some how

Context dude, context. Follow the last few pages.

 

[pupstar]

Context dude, context. Follow the last few pages.

So after all of this who is the better player or who is going to be.Well who knows way to early to to judge anything about Daicos untill he is playing against men in the AFL.

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

I cannot wait to see Jy, Cunners, Willips and JHF setting the tone with the professional standards at training.

JHF, Cunners and Willips’ diligence and coachability were/are some of biggest strengths pre-draft. I don’t actually know how well Jy was rated in this regard, but he has been well respected over the few years across all levels of the club for his work ethic off the field.

The talent and leadership we are amassing cannot be overstated.

 

[The acurate one]

I cannot wait to see Jy, Cunners, Willips and JHF setting the tone with the professional standards at training.

JHF, Cunners and Willips’ diligence and coachability were/are some of biggest strengths pre-draft. I don’t actually know how well Jy was rated in this regard, but he has been well respected over the few years across all levels of the club for his work ethic off the field.

The talent and leadership we are amassing cannot be overstated.

John Blakey will be setting the standards am sure they'll all follow though and yes that will be great.

 

[Passmore]

John Blakey will be setting the standards am sure they'll all follow though and yes that will be great.

Some might be following through at the thought of what lies ahead.

 

[Reginald0]

I’m thinking he will play HBF
We will find out pretty soon if his kicking under pressure is any good

 

[Psicosis]

I’m thinking he will play HBF
We will find out pretty soon if his kicking under pressure is any good

Why are we trying to turn highly rated C/F's into HBF's?

 

[Reginald0]

not turn him into……
we have to get him in the team Point 1
we have a lot of c/ f guess that is Centre fwd?
he is a fab one on one defender….geez have you heard of a team that like really really needs a good one on one defender

 

[Psicosis]

not turn him into……
we have to get him in the team Point 1
we have a lot of c/ f guess that is Centre fwd?
he is a fab one on one defender….geez have you heard of a team that like really really needs a good one on one defender

Recruit a good one on one defender.

Don't turn your prized number 1 draft pick & the most talented kid we've brought to the club in decades, into one.

 

[Moti]

not turn him into……
we have to get him in the team Point 1
we have a lot of c/ f guess that is Centre fwd?
he is a fab one on one defender….geez have you heard of a team that like really really needs a good one on one defender

We don't have a good attacking wingman, let's try him in his spot first.