Pick 1.

[Magnificence]

Kruezer we need him more

Its 100% Kruzcontrol

 

[WorthTheWaite]

We need Kruezer more than Cotchin. We have an abundance of midfielders, a lot of them will be playing VFL most weeks. We need ruck, HFs and defence.

If we get Kruezer we can chuck him in the forward flanks for 08, let him use his pace and kick a few goals. Also give him a run in the bullants in 2nd ruck posi. he'll be alright for 2010 ruck.

No we don't. We may have an "abundance" of midfielders, but quality over quantity any day of the week. We don't have enough quality midfielders - still need another 1-2 "elite" midfielders to round off our current batch. Cotchin has all the smarts, skills, poise and hands of Gibbs/Murphy, PLUS athleticism that is through the roof. You can't honestly say we need need a ruckman more when we have Hampson, Aisake and Jacobs as long term prospects, more than we need the skills of Cotchin. Midfield rotation is absolutely essential. Look at West Coast. Do you think they'd be where they are if they just said, "Well, we have Judd, Cousins and Kerr, we don't need midfielders!"? We need depth, we need quality. Cotchin will give us both. And I don't buy into this whole ruck deficiency - it's a SHORT-TERM problem - we have Hampson, Aisake and Jacobs developing - it's only because we don't have any good ruckman AT THE MOMENT that it looks so bad. By no means should we stop recruiting ruckmen now, but to use Pick 1 on a ruckman "because we need Kreuzer more than Cotchin" is not only poor reasoning, but also false IMO. Cox is an amazing player, but 1) Kreuzer will probably never be as good and 2) he's just the icing on the cake - a decent ruckman would only be marginally less effective. They couldn't win games without their midfield. As long as they had a decent ruckman to win taps and do a little bit of work around the ground, they'd still win.

Secure the midfield, secure the Premiership.

Also, we've lost Kennedy and well as the possibilty of Whitnall. A ruckman/forward in the mould of Corey McKernan would be an important pick-up given the losses. An important reason for retaining pick 1 and taking Kreuzer.

Kreuzer will not be a forward. He is a ruckman. If you want a ruckman/forward then get McEvoy.

 

[blues4flag]

Will be very, very surprised if we picked up Cotchin over Kreuzer. Our midfield is just about complete - Stevens back, Judd (whom Cotch is supposedly a similar type to) and Hadley, added to our current midfield stocks and we're not in need of another.

On the otherhand, while we have 2 young ruckmen, neither are sure things. Hampson is raw and Aisake is an unknown. I've got hope for them, but Kreuzer appears to good to pass up. Plus, Cloke and Ackland will be only short term options at the club - I'd be surprised if Ackland played much more than half a dozen games next year, barring injury.

 

[DonFletch]

kruezer rates well in all departments, i think we'll get him. He is simply just the best young talent in the country...

 

[Jimthegreat]

No we don't. We may have an "abundance" of midfielders, but quality over quantity any day of the week. We don't have enough quality midfielders - still need another 1-2 "elite" midfielders to round off our current batch. Cotchin has all the smarts, skills, poise and hands of Gibbs/Murphy, PLUS athleticism that is through the roof. You can't honestly say we need need a ruckman more when we have Hampson, Aisake and Jacobs as long term prospects, more than we need the skills of Cotchin. Midfield rotation is absolutely essential. Look at West Coast. Do you think they'd be where they are if they just said, "Well, we have Judd, Cousins and Kerr, we don't need midfielders!"? We need depth, we need quality. Cotchin will give us both. And I don't buy into this whole ruck deficiency - it's a SHORT-TERM problem - we have Hampson, Aisake and Jacobs developing - it's only because we don't have any good ruckman AT THE MOMENT that it looks so bad. By no means should we stop recruiting ruckmen now, but to use Pick 1 on a ruckman "because we need Kreuzer more than Cotchin" is not only poor reasoning, but also false IMO. Cox is an amazing player, but 1) Kreuzer will probably never be as good and 2) he's just the icing on the cake - a decent ruckman would only be marginally less effective. They couldn't win games without their midfield. As long as they had a decent ruckman to win taps and do a little bit of work around the ground, they'd still win.

Secure the midfield, secure the Premiership.



Kreuzer will not be a forward. He is a ruckman. If you want a ruckman/forward then get McEvoy.

Kreuzer has more of an upside than just being a ruckman. He was also 2nd in the competition goalkicking, which says something about his ability to go forward. Also has a huge motor and excellent speed for a big man. We've just lost Kennedy and possibly Whitnall so I'm guessing Kreuzer's going to be our man. If you wanting the best player then it also seems accepted that Kreuzer's the best player in that competition. Morrish Medalist may just confirm that. You say Kreuzer won't be as good as Cox, who, by the way, actually came off the Rookie List. There's a fair chance that Crotchin won't be as good as Judd, who we just got with pick 3. There's no guarantee that Crotchin will be better than the other mid's at AFL level. The fact that we fought so hard to keep pick 1 indicates we'll be getting Kreuzer. If we wanted a midfielder we would've traded pick 1 and kept Kennedy. There's nothing to say here that one is infinitely better than the other so, unlike with big men, there are choices. I think that is obvious. We got our midfielder when we picked up Judd with pick 3.

 

[WorthTheWaite]

Will be very, very surprised if we picked up Cotchin over Kreuzer. Our midfield is just about complete - Stevens back, Judd (whom Cotch is supposedly a similar type to) and Hadley, added to our current midfield stocks and we're not in need of another.

On the otherhand, while we have 2 young ruckmen, neither are sure things. Hampson is raw and Aisake is an unknown. I've got hope for them, but Kreuzer appears to good to pass up. Plus, Cloke and Ackland will be only short term options at the club - I'd be surprised if Ackland played much more than half a dozen games next year, barring injury.

We can pick up developing ruckmen later in the draft, and in future drafts. It's not as though the future of our ruck division relies on getting Kreuzer. The kid's rucking ability isn't even his most outstanding attribute - it's not as though he's going to smash every other ruckman.

Also - we have Gibbs and Murphy who are pretty much sure things. Add Judd & Stevens who are "things". That leaves us with 4. Four quality midfielders isn't enough. I'm not saying the likes of Walker, Carrazzo and co. aren't going to make it, but they're not going to be A-grade stars (except perhaps Walker, who could be anything once he improves decision making and consistency). Why turn down a virtually guaranteed superstar like Cotchin in favour of a player like Kreuzer who probably "only" going to be very good?

Cotchin.

 

[encino]

There has to be a reason for all the hype. It was the same last year, with people saying we shouldn't take Gibbs #1 just because of the hype. But there's a reason the media are on to him.
Would any blues supporter honestly have preferred taking someone other than Gibbs in hindsight?

Go Kreuzer.

 

[Jimthegreat]

We can pick up developing ruckmen later in the draft, and in future drafts. It's not as though the future of our ruck division relies on getting Kreuzer. The kid's rucking ability isn't even his most outstanding attribute - it's not as though he's going to smash every other ruckman.

Also - we have Gibbs and Murphy who are pretty much sure things. Add Judd & Stevens who are "things". That leaves us with 4. Four quality midfielders isn't enough. I'm not saying the likes of Walker, Carrazzo and co. aren't going to make it, but they're not going to be A-grade stars (except perhaps Walker, who could be anything once he improves decision making and consistency). Why turn down a virtually guaranteed superstar like Cotchin in favour of a player like Kreuzer who probably "only" going to be very good?

Cotchin.

How do we know he'll be a superstar yet or that much better than other mid's in the draft when it comes to AFL level. We have Judd plus plenty of decent mids. Right now I'd prefer a very good big man rather than a super midfielder, especially one who's considered the best player in the draft. Probably a good chance we're not talking another Judd so I'm sure we'll find plenty more as time comes. We've picked up Murphy, Gibbs, Walker, Stevens and Judd in the last few years and just given away Kennedy, so it's time for a very athletic, versatile big man. Even more so when you considered it may take a few years to develop without the guarantees, so, in respect there, you do have to think about your list 3,4 even 5 years ahead. Don't knock them back when there's a good one as you have to draft them at some stage. Don't want to end up a team of short people in 5+ years like the Bulldogs (worst case senario and unlikely) if we stop drafting them. A case in point iwth bigger players is that we have taken years to still unsuccesfully find a KP defender

 

[WorthTheWaite]

There has to be a reason for all the hype. It was the same last year, with people saying we shouldn't take Gibbs #1 just because of the hype. But there's a reason the media are on to him.
Would any blues supporter honestly have preferred taking someone other than Gibbs in hindsight?

Go Kreuzer.

I don't give a **** about the hype, frankly. Just because we feel Gibbs was the right choice doesn't mean it was all thanks to the media. My reasoning for not picking Kreuzer isn't that he's been hyped up...

 

[encino]

I don't give a **** about the hype, frankly. Just because we feel Gibbs was the right choice doesn't mean it was all thanks to the media. My reasoning for not picking Kreuzer isn't that he's been hyped up...

The point is, if everyone around is telling you he is going to be a superstar, why wouldn't you believe it? The media and all the scouts and club officials know a darn side more than most of us, and if they are hyping him up, he's not going to be a dud.

 

[WorthTheWaite]

Kreuzer has more of an upside than just being a ruckman. He was also 2nd in the competition goalkicking, which says something about his ability to go forward. Also has a huge motor and excellent speed for a big man. We've just lost Kennedy and possibly Whitnall so I'm guessing Kreuzer's going to be our man. If you wanting the best player then it also seems accepted that Kreuzer's the best player in that competition. Morrish Medalist may just confirm that. You say Kreuzer won't be as good as Cox, who, by the way, actually came off the Rookie List. There's a fair chance that Crotchin won't be as good as Judd, who we just got with pick 3. There's no guarantee that Crotchin will be better than the other mid's at AFL level. The fact that we fought so hard to keep pick 1 indicates we'll be getting Kreuzer. If we wanted a midfielder we would've traded pick 1 and kept Kennedy. There's nothing to say here that one is infinitely better than the other so, unlike with big men, there are choices. I think that is obvious. We got our midfielder when we picked up Judd with pick 3.

So what if he scored goals at TAC level? The stats really don't mean everything. He isn't going to be a replacement for JK/Whitnall - no chance. He is NOT a forward. He did so well in the TAC Cup because he was bigger and fitter - he won't do that at AFL level, because he doesn't have the attributes to do so. TAC Cup success does not equal AFL success.

And when I say "best available", I don't mean the player that is the currently the best, irrespective of potential. Kreuzer's an incredible junior football player - great. Fort Caruso won the Morrish Medal twice, and wasn't even rookied.

A lot of the arguments I'm seeing for Kreuzer are "nothing" statements, just meanginless rhetoric. "He scored goals at TAC Cup level, he won the Morrish Medal, he averaged 20 hit outs" etc. Talk about his game and his attributes, not about his accolades. A Morrish Medal won't make you a good AFL player. It's the skills/attributes that win you that medal that matter. We're all friends here, and we all want whats best for Carlton, so I'm happy to hear about why we should take Kreuzer. But I'd rather hear about how he's got the rucking to dominate at AFL level, the speed to burn off opponents, etc., not that he won the Morrish Medal.

 

[WorthTheWaite]

The point is, if everyone around is telling you he is going to be a superstar, why wouldn't you believe it? The media and all the scouts and club officials know a darn side more than most of us, and if they are hyping him up, he's not going to be a dud.

There's a fine line between the media and scouts/officials. If Wayne Hughes and co. came up to me and said, "We believe Kreuzer is the best available pick", then I'd be willing to believe it. But all I've heard is hot air from journos trying to sound draft-savvy. Besides, shouldn't you be able to work out for yourself who's going to be the better player, rather than others just telling you? Sure, the media can say that, but that's only one opinion, and everyone has one.

 

[Jimthegreat]

So what if he scored goals at TAC level? The stats really don't mean everything. He isn't going to be a replacement for JK/Whitnall - no chance. He is NOT a forward. He did so well in the TAC Cup because he was bigger and fitter - he won't do that at AFL level, because he doesn't have the attributes to do so. TAC Cup success does not equal AFL success.

And when I say "best available", I don't mean the player that is the currently the best, irrespective of potential. Kreuzer's an incredible junior football player - great. Fort Caruso won the Morrish Medal twice, and wasn't even rookied.

A lot of the arguments I'm seeing for Kreuzer are "nothing" statements, just meanginless rhetoric. "He scored goals at TAC Cup level, he won the Morrish Medal, he averaged 20 hit outs" etc. Talk about his game and his attributes, not about his accolades. A Morrish Medal won't make you a good AFL player. It's the skills/attributes that win you that medal that matter. We're all friends here, and we all want whats best for Carlton, so I'm happy to hear about why we should take Kreuzer. But I'd rather hear about how he's got the rucking to dominate at AFL level, the speed to burn off opponents, etc., not that he won the Morrish Medal.

You've just been told why we WILL take Kreuzer and not just from me. If that doesn't tell you why then the fact is that you don 't want to know. Don't give me this only "TAC" level stuff. FFS, where the **** else do you pick them up from and get a guide to their form. That argument is absolutely laughable and desperate. Where are you judging Crotchin's form from given he's plays for the same team as Kreuzer. Competiton B & F medals are usually smaller midfielders awards these days. When a big player wins they've done very well. I will listen to people in the know who universially continue to say that Kreuzer. Why did we fight so hard to retain pick 1. There's a choice of potentially excellent midfielders with pick 3. Miss one, there's a good chance the next one will be as good. Not with a big man. If we'd traded pick 1 you think Richmond would've passed up Kreuzer to take Crotchin. Not ****** likely. They would've dived on him. Why do you think they were in the background applying pressure for us to give up pick 1? That's why we fought tooth and nail to retain it.

 

[johno_1989]

Seen him play? Seen Cotchin play anywhere outside this year's nat champs?

Just curious is all.

Ive seen them both play, can't really split em cause of the different positions and all. But carlton need a ruckman, where as our midfield is pretty full as it is

 

[DIG]

Ratten was just foxing this morning to throw the Tigers off guard. We'll get Kreuzer.

 

[WorthTheWaite]

You've just been told why we WILL take Kreuzer and not just from me. If that doesn't tell you why then the fact is that you don 't want to know. Don't give me this only "TAC" level stuff. FFS, where the **** else do you pick them up from and get a guide to their form. That argument is absolutely laughable and desperate. Where are you judging Crotchin's form from given he's plays for the same team as Kreuzer. Competiton B & F medals are usually smaller midfielders awards these days. When a big player wins they've done very well. I will listen to people in the know who universially continue to say that Kreuzer. Why did we fight so hard to retain pick 1. There's a choice of potentially excellent midfielders with pick 3. Miss one, there's a good chance the next one will be as good. Not with a big man. If we'd traded pick 1 you think Richmond would've passed up Kreuzer to take Crotchin. Not ****** likely. They would've dived on him. Why do you think they were in the background applying pressure for us to give up pick 1? That's why we fought tooth and nail to retain it.

Telling me that we should take Kreuzer because he won the Morrish Medal and came 2nd in the TAC goalkicking is hardly convincing. Telling me we should take Kreuzer because he's got a terrific rucking technique, an impressive leap and is almost certain to become a dominant ruckman at AFL level IS compelling. But no one has done that. I wonder - is this because it's not true?

I'm not saying you disregard the TAC Cup... but accolades at that level are for THAT LEVEL only. They don't give the Morrish Medal to kids who are going to be awesome AFL players - they give the Medal to kids who are awesome TAC Cup players. There are certain attributes that will see a kid dominate at TAC Cup level that won't translate into success at AFL - for example, a gorilla with a huge size advantage over everyone else will dominate in the U18 comp, but he's not going to continue growing and enjoy the same advantage at AFL level, is he? That's why simply saying "FFS **** TAC Cup Morrish Medallist 2nd in goal kicking" isn't convincing at all. Shane Woewodin's resume features a Brownlow. That doesn't make him better than Daniel Kerr. It's obviously an extreme example, but I hope you get my point - tell me what parts of his game make him an irresistible #1 pick, not what he's got in his trophy cabinet.

Also, it might be worth noting that Cotchin only played 7 TAC Cup games this year. He was BOG twice. He averaged 27.4 disposals, 2.9 tackles, 5.3 marks (1.4 contested), and 3.4 scoring shots per game (1.3 goals).

If you ignore the final against Calder in which he broke his foot, he averaged 29 disposals, 2.8 tackles, 6.0 marks (1.5 contested) and 4.0 scoring shots (1.5 goals). Make no mistake - Cotchin is no TAC Cup dud - he would've been competing with Kreuzer for that medal if he didn't have school football commitments. Those stats are even more impressive when you consider he's bottom-aged, has no developmental advantages over anyone else (if anything, is disadvantaged) and was tagged.

 

[jonoman89]

You're saying kruezer isnt brilliant cause hes only at TAC level, yet u are trying to argue cotchin is brilliant even though he too is at TAC level. You are even using TAC stats!

Kruezer IS a forward option. He has kicked a lot of goals, is bulky and has pace. That isn't going to change.

 

[WorthTheWaite]

You're saying kruezer isnt brilliant cause hes only at TAC level, yet u are trying to argue cotchin is brilliant even though he too is at TAC level. You are even using TAC stats!

Kruezer IS a forward option. He has kicked a lot of goals, is bulky and has pace. That isn't going to change.

Oh my god. Are you being serious?...

My point was that simply saying Kreuzer performs at TAC Cup level and won the Morrish Medal and should therefore be Pick 1 is wrong. Read this:

I'm not saying you disregard the TAC Cup... but accolades at that level are for THAT LEVEL only. They don't give the Morrish Medal to kids who are going to be awesome AFL players - they give the Medal to kids who are awesome TAC Cup players. There are certain attributes that will see a kid dominate at TAC Cup level that won't translate into success at AFL - for example, a gorilla with a huge size advantage over everyone else will dominate in the U18 comp, but he's not going to continue growing and enjoy the same advantage at AFL level, is he? That's why simply saying "FFS **** TAC Cup Morrish Medallist 2nd in goal kicking" isn't convincing at all. Shane Woewodin's resume features a Brownlow. That doesn't make him better than Daniel Kerr. It's obviously an extreme example, but I hope you get my point - tell me what parts of his game make him an irresistible #1 pick, not what he's got in his trophy cabinet.

I only mentioned Cotchin's stats for your benefit - you seem to be so intent on mentioning how well Kreuzer performs at TAC Cup level to support his case - well, guess what, Cotchin ain't bad either!

 

[blues4flag]

We can pick up developing ruckmen later in the draft, and in future drafts. It's not as though the future of our ruck division relies on getting Kreuzer. The kid's rucking ability isn't even his most outstanding attribute - it's not as though he's going to smash every other ruckman.

Also - we have Gibbs and Murphy who are pretty much sure things. Add Judd & Stevens who are "things". That leaves us with 4. Four quality midfielders isn't enough. I'm not saying the likes of Walker, Carrazzo and co. aren't going to make it, but they're not going to be A-grade stars (except perhaps Walker, who could be anything once he improves decision making and consistency). Why turn down a virtually guaranteed superstar like Cotchin in favour of a player like Kreuzer who probably "only" going to be very good?

Cotchin.

How the hell can you say Cotchin is a "guaranteed superstar" while Kreuzer will "probably "only going to be very good"? Where's the objectivity in that?

Fact is, they're only 17/18 years old and not even the most astute teenage scout will know where they'll be in 5 years time. To say that Kreuzer will probably only be very good, when the majority of footy watchers rate him as the best kid in the draft, is simply ridiculous.

Also, tell me how many premiership teams have more than 4 A-grade midfielders? I think you'll find they have 3 or 4 guns while the rest of them are are above average to very good players. You claim that our young rucks are good enough to be persisted with - yet how about our young midfielders? Doesn't the same argument apply to Grigg, Jackson, Russel, Benjamin? And the likes of Simpson, Hadley, Walker, Scotland, Carrazzo, Bentick and even Betts rotating through provides that depth.

I don't think midfield is our problem - definitely not top end midfield talent anyway. We've also established some very good depth in the midfield - so much so that for the first time in years, there'll be some serious competition for spots.

Meanwhile, we've got basically two options for ruckmen in the long term - Cloke and Ackland are on borrowed time and Jacobs looks highly unlikely - leaving Aisake and Hampson. One has played been playing club footy for three years - the other hadn't even touched a football until three years ago. While they've got potential, we're still one good ruckmen short going into the future, and what could be better than not only drafting the best ruckman in the draft, but arguably the best player in the draft?

All things being equal, I will be shocked if Kreuzer is not selected at number one in the ND.

 

[WorthTheWaite]

How the hell can you say Cotchin is a "guaranteed superstar" while Kreuzer will "probably "only going to be very good"? Where's the objectivity in that?

Fact is, they're only 17/18 years old and not even the most astute teenage scout will know where they'll be in 5 years time. To say that Kreuzer will probably only be very good, when the majority of footy watchers rate him as the best kid in the draft, is simply ridiculous.

Also, tell me how many premiership teams have more than 4 A-grade midfielders? I think you'll find they have 3 or 4 guns while the rest of them are are above average to very good players. You claim that our young rucks are good enough to be persisted with - yet how about our young midfielders? Doesn't the same argument apply to Grigg, Jackson, Russel, Benjamin? And the likes of Simpson, Hadley, Walker, Scotland, Carrazzo, Bentick and even Betts rotating through provides that depth.

I don't think midfield is our problem - definitely not top end midfield talent anyway. We've also established some very good depth in the midfield - so much so that for the first time in years, there'll be some serious competition for spots.

Meanwhile, we've got basically two options for ruckmen in the long term - Cloke and Ackland are on borrowed time and Jacobs looks highly unlikely - leaving Aisake and Hampson. One has played been playing club footy for three years - the other hadn't even touched a football until three years ago. While they've got potential, we're still one good ruckmen short going into the future, and what could be better than not only drafting the best ruckman in the draft, but arguably the best player in the draft?

All things being equal, I will be shocked if Kreuzer is not selected at number one in the ND.

You're right. That statement was a little over the top But basically, in my opinion, Cotchin is more likely to become a superstar. Kreuzer is an outstanding prospect, but I don't see him entering the "elite" category - a feat which few ruckmen really ever achieve. In that sense, I think we're better off picking up Cotchin.

On the issue of premiership teams - assuming Judd returns to his best, Stevens is able to reproduce his early 2007 form, Murphy continues his rise and makes it, Gibbs is able to dominate in the midfield and Cotchin becomes elite - picking Cotchin would leave us with 5 genuine A-grade midfielders. That's about right, IMO. Some might not make it, some might not last that long... basically, enhancing our chances of having as many A-graders as we can is in our best interests. So the issue of having "too many" isn't a big one for me.

In saying that our young rucks are good enough, I mean that they are sufficient to allow us to select a midfielder over a ruckmen at Pick 1. We can pick up a ruckman later in the draft or in later drafts. Overlooking Kreuzer will not disqualify us from ever drafting a ruckman again. That eliminates the issue of "needing a ruckman" from entering the decision making process IMO, which I feel contributes partly to the pro-Kreuzer sentiments. Our young mids are also promising, but very few will near that "elite" bracket. I believe Cotchin will go one better and enter it.

Although our short-term ruck outlook is bleak, Kreuzer will not affect that in anyway. If we draft him, he's going to be conditioned for a few years before he's expected to really step up. By that time, I expect Hampson & Aisake to have come along in leaps and bounds (excuse the pun ), and for us to have gone through perhaps 2-3 more drafts. If we were to take Cotchin, we could pick up another 1-2 ruckmen in those drafts, or even more if we so desired. Overlooking Kreuzer this year and getting a ruckman next year won't seriously impact on our long-term ruck stocks - only one season later, and you never know how quickly a ruckman will develop. The same could be said about picking up a midfielder. But this is the crux of the issue: the same could not be said about overlooking Cotchin. He has the potential to become a truly elite midfielder. We will not simply be able to get another Cotchin next year, or the year after, as we slowly (or rapidly, depending on how things turn out) rise up the ladder. They are hot property. They are rare and clubs snap them up. We could miss out on a very, very special player.

The same could be said of Kreuzer. But I would argue that 1) he doesn't tick as many boxes for a ruckman as Cotchin does for a midfielder, 2) the difference between a top ruckman and a good one is not as significant as the difference between a top midfielder and a good one, and 3) ruckmen, in their nature, do not last as long and are therefore more "costly" to draft - as you don't get as much service out of them. Can we afford to draft one at #1, all things considered?

 

[Salaryman]

I trust Gilly's judgement and say we take Cotchin.

No offense to myself, but i'd be trusting Hughesy and Shane and their years of experience over me .

They have seen a lot more of both of them than me...who knows i might have been at the "right" games where Cotch turned it on and missed some of the big fella's better games (e.g. against Geelong Falcons at Colac). Having said that, to borrow a line from wisbey, I just think the Cotch has more "hurt" factor, he hits targets and will do the stuff that turns and wins games....Kreuz does everything well for a ruckman and will compete well and contribute for 100 minutes no matter the point of the game....he also seems to get to more contests than any other ruckman I've seen.....but he aint going to pick up the pill, explode away from a pack and hit Fev on the chest off the left or right......then again that bloke we oicked up called Judd won't be bad for that either


Win-Win-Win-Win

But thanks for your vote of confidence

 

[Salaryman]

The best player? Kreuzer won the Morrish Medal, was the number 1 ruck and also finished equal second in the goalkicking. Tells me he's the best player. Craig Kelly left us in no doubt on SEN that Kreuzer was certainly the best and we'd be stupid give give up pick 1 and miss out on him, even at the expense of Judd. We've already picked up the best player with our picks. He's called Judd. If we wanted another mid why did we fight so hard to keep pick 1. We could've given away pick 1 picked up a good mid anyway and kept Kennedy. I'm guessing you're going to be wrong and we get Kreuzer. I think I'll go with Craig Kelly's judgement rather than "Windows" off BigFooty.

Jim you need to take a deep breath....you are using a too recuctionist approach to this.. If it was this cut and dried we needn't have bothered turning up to draft camp, Hughesy can take a holiday to the Maldives. Lots of whispers that Woodhouse (WCE) has cotchin ranked at #1........but then again he is a dud recruiter

 

[WorthTheWaite]

No offense to myself, but i'd be trusting Hughesy and Shane and their years of experience over me .

They have seen a lot more of both of them than me...who knows i might have been at the "right" games where Cotch turned it on and missed some of the big fella's better games (e.g. against Geelong Falcons at Colac). Having said that, to borrow a line from wisbey, I just think the Cotch has more "hurt" factor, he hits targets and will do the stuff that turns and wins games....Kreuz does everything well for a ruckman and will compete well and contribute for 100 minutes no matter the point of the game....he also seems to get to more contests than any other ruckman I've seen.....but he aint going to pick up the pill, explode away from a pack and hit Fev on the chest off the left or right......then again that bloke we oicked up called Judd won't be bad for that either


Win-Win-Win-Win

But thanks for your vote of confidence

Good point. Kreuzer, as a ruckman, will never really have the ability to influence a game like Cotchin. I suspect he'll never have the influence around the ground of an elite midfielder nor the sheer dominance in tapouts of a towering hit-out king. However, I also believe he'll have the ability to perform very well in both.

 

[Salaryman]

kruezer rates well in all departments, i think we'll get him. He is simply just the best young talent in the country...

Ever heard of opinions??? SO every recruiter in the country has him at #1??

Not what I've heard

 

[Salaryman]

Good point. Kreuzer, as a ruckman, will never really have the ability to influence a game like Cotchin. I suspect he'll never have the influence around the ground of an elite midfielder nor the sheer dominance in tapouts of a towering hit-out king. However, I also believe he'll have the ability to perform very well in both.

Don't get me wrong I think Kreuz will have some very dominant games at AFL level, much like Cox, and to a lesser extent Fraser and Simmonds.....I just think Cotch will more often do things in a game that put hurt and scoreboard hurt on the opposition...Ablett and Nathan Brown style......one thing we have been really lacking in our side.