Welcome Pick 16 (2016) - Todd Marshall

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philthy05

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My point exactly. Marshall isnt established yet
Yeah that’s true.

But lots of if not all established key forwards were carried in their afl side at some stage.

Marshall early needs to develop in some areas but history tells us the best chance of that happening is in the afl.

It’s also the double standards for talls v smalls that pisses us off with Hinkley. We’ve all seen smalls and flankers get carried through poor form in ports side while talls get dropped ASAP.

Also I would rather try and fail to develop a kf rather than hope one magically appears. I do worry that hinkleys and ports ability to attract players to the club might make Hinkley think he can pick up a gun forward off the market at the drop of a hat when realistically it’s the lowest percentage play going around.
 

RussellEbertHandball

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At the Member's Convention this year in one of the videos, Marshall's workrate at training to chase and follow up to create a goalscoring opportunity was used as an example of the importance of this part of the game. This sort of workrate is being positively reinforced.

So he's not being coached to be lazy.

Sometimes players go out of form and they stop doing the little things that matter. It happens across all sports. Then it clicks and they get back to doing everything that will make them a success.
That's why I said in the Maggies game day thread last night or this morning, that maybe the anniversary of his father's death is playing on his mind and is having a compounding effect to go with some poor form. Most games I have seen him play he works hard and makes a big effort. But if his mind is elsewhere then its hard to perform.
 

FineWines11

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That's why I said in the Maggies game day thread last night or this morning, that maybe the anniversary of his father's death is playing on his mind and is having a compounding effect to go with some poor form. Most games I have seen him play he works hard and makes a big effort. But if his mind is elsewhere then its hard to perform.
I agree. This guy deserves a bloody medal for being able to compete as an elite athlete after what he's been through.
 

S.Patrol.G

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I Don’t disagree, but this is one of Marshall problems, he isn’t playing Tall. He doesn’t make leads into space I50 nearly well enough, drops to many marks and isn’t a contested marking player.

That’s where the comments about them seing him as a general forward comes from. If we want a sting marking target in Dixon’s absence Frampton is ahead of Marshall at this point in time. Billy holds more contested marks and Crashes packs.

Do we remember the job AJ did on McGovern last year at AO ? Stopping tall defenders taking intercept marks isn’t as simple as picking more talks.

Don’t get me wrong, I want Marshall back in the AFL side as soon as possible, but he has things he needs to work on, especially if we want him out #1 (tall) Forward.
Absolutely agree with you that he has things to work on, just like any kid with a handful of games, but he can work on those areas effectively in the AFL. We don't want/need him to be our Number 1 tall right now. We want him to be developing and that takes trust and consistency, something Hinkley has proven he will not do with KP players. That's why I fear for Marshall under Hinkley.
 

RangaInTeal

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Call me old fashioned, but it would be pretty hard to relate to Matthew Nicks, Nathan Bassett and Ken Hinkley as a key forward. Those three know the pitfalls and perils of being a young lad learning the craft...
Currently why can’t we develop tall, skinny players like Hipwood? Can only think of Westy at the moment who would get a very high pass mark.
Listen to Browny on the Couch tonight dissecting the Melbourne forward structure, enough said!
 

El_Scorcho

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It’s also the double standards for talls v smalls that pisses us off with Hinkley. We’ve all seen smalls and flankers get carried through poor form in ports side while talls get dropped ASAP.
This is part of why I won't accept people saying that people need to play at a high level and demand selection before getting a run of games.

Jake Neade 66 games under Hinkley
Kane Mitchell 35 games under Hinkley
Sam Gray 77 games under Hinkley
Nathan Krakouer 29 games under Hinkley
Cam O'Shea 59 games under Hinkley
Andrew Moore 36 games under Hinkley
Aaron Young 64 games under Hinkley
Paul Stewart 36 games under Hinkley

Not all of these guys were total garbage, but every single one of them got more than a decent crack at it during an era where we were playing short up forward and crying out for a key forward.

John Butcher 19 games under Hinkley.
 

JUSTWORK

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This is part of why I won't accept people saying that people need to play at a high level and demand selection before getting a run of games.

Jake Neade 66 games under Hinkley
Kane Mitchell 35 games under Hinkley
Sam Gray 77 games under Hinkley
Nathan Krakouer 29 games under Hinkley
Cam O'Shea 59 games under Hinkley
Andrew Moore 36 games under Hinkley
Aaron Young 64 games under Hinkley
Paul Stewart 36 games under Hinkley

Not all of these guys were total garbage, but every single one of them got more than a decent crack at it during an era where we were playing short up forward and crying out for a key forward.

John Butcher 19 games under Hinkley.
There's no doubt there were some horrible elevations into the AFL side for those guys - but there were also some pretty bloody good games that resulted in those call ups also (like Sam Gray last week) have they gotten more leeway than Butcher, Marshall probably yes. But those two aren't alone Snelling did more than some of those guy and never got a look in other than a token game v the suns (where he did pretty well from memory), as did Palmer took that ripper mark in that showdown.

But just because other guys were gifted games and given gold passes doesn't mean we should do the same with Marshall, it doesn't mean Marshall shouldn't have to earn his spot in the side back. Yes he can develop in the AFL side, but he needs to be at a point where he is doing enough to be in the AFL side and Develop, remember a page back, maybe a few Macca used the phrase "198cm Jake Neade" to describe how Marshall is playing, i want Marshall back in the side as you do, but we need to start to see the kind of player we say in his draft year. What i saw playing in the SANFL does warrant AFL selection.

Marshall has talent, but nothing absolutely nothing is more important that work rate, wanting to succeed and that's why i want Marshall to earn his spot back in the AFL side. He needs to know there is a spot there for him, we want him there but he has to earn it. Being a successful AFL player does just happen, it won't come to him, he has to make it happen.
 

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edgie

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The Marshall criticism is a bit weird, unlike Butcher who had critics from the get go (kicking, couldn't play well with other KPF), Marshall has had universal support.

Until now?


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JUSTWORK

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The Marshall criticism is a bit weird, unlike Butcher who had critics from the get go (kicking, couldn't play well with other KPF), Marshall has had universal support.

Until now?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't think its a lack if support.

I know in my case i just want to see him earn his spot back after a disappointing start.
 

yepits2020

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The Marshall criticism is a bit weird, unlike Butcher who had critics from the get go (kicking, couldn't play well with other KPF), Marshall has had universal support.

Until now?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Marshall has my support. He has the talent. But I do not see why he should be overly carried. He needs to earn and respect his spot.
 

S.Patrol.G

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I don't think its a lack if support.

I know in my case i just want to see him earn his spot back after a disappointing start.
What is this "disappointing start" that some are going on about? Marshall averaged 8.5 disposals in his two games this year, one where he was poleaxed twice and the other where ALL KPF's struggled in the conditions.

He's taken the same amount of marks as Lycett, in one game less, and has 3 less kicks than Ryder, also in one game less.

Add to that, Marshall has played 12 games for the club and we've won 10 of them.
 

RangaInTeal

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What is this "disappointing start" that some are going on about? Marshall averaged 8.5 disposals in his two games this year, one where he was poleaxed twice and the other where ALL KPF's struggled in the conditions.

He's taken the same amount of marks as Lycett, in one game less, and has 3 less kicks than Ryder, also in one game less.

Add to that, Marshall has played 12 games for the club and we've won 10 of them.
I would be in the Marshall has been disappointing thus far in 2019, but they are some pretty interesting stats! We look so much better when Ryder is at Full Forward, but Marshall in a pocket wouldn’t hurt
 

GremioPower

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I Don’t disagree, but this is one of Marshall problems, he isn’t playing Tall. He doesn’t make leads into space I50 nearly well enough, drops to many marks and isn’t a contested marking player.

That’s where the comments about them seing him as a general forward comes from. If we want a sting marking target in Dixon’s absence Frampton is ahead of Marshall at this point in time. Billy holds more contested marks and Crashes packs.

Do we remember the job AJ did on McGovern last year at AO ? Stopping tall defenders taking intercept marks isn’t as simple as picking more talks.

Don’t get me wrong, I want Marshall back in the AFL side as soon as possible, but he has things he needs to work on, especially if we want him out #1 (tall) Forward.
There! Dixon is out, and we haven't actually replaced him. We are playing, just like last year, without a #1 target down front.

Ryder is replacing Dixon, which is odd — to say the least. Ryder/Lycett should be our #2 target, with Westhoff/Marshall/Ebert/Watts rotating as #3.

Marshall is not a KPF, and that's fine. If we were willing to proper replace Dixon, we would be playing Frampton.
 
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Jason K

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There! Dixon is out, and we haven't actually replaced him. We are playing, just like last year, without a #1 target down front.

Ryder is replacing Dixon, which is odd — to say the least. Ryder/Lycett should be our #2 target, with Westhoff/Marshall/Ebert/Watts rotating as #3.

Marshall is not a KPF, and that's fine. If we were willing to proper replace Dixon, we would be playing Frampton.
Ken is too pig headed to play Frampton as a key forward until our season is shot for a game or so in the hope he fails so he can look smarter than supporters.

I feel like every second post atm I am banging on about Ken, but seriously, I simply cannot believe he doesn't see that he totally f’ed our structure and team balance with his selections against Brisbane. Perhaps he just thought we were much better than Brisbane and we wouldn't need good balnce to beat them?

I am pretty much resigned to seeing Port - No Change tonight too, sigh.....
 

GremioPower

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Ken is too pig headed to play Frampton as a key forward until our season is shot for a game or so in the hope he fails so he can look smarter than supporters.

I feel like every second post atm I am banging on about Ken, but seriously, I simply cannot believe he doesn't see that he totally ****** our structure and team balance with his selections against Brisbane. Perhaps he just thought we were much better than Brisbane and we wouldn't need good balnce to beat them?

I am pretty much resigned to seeing Port - No Change tonight too, sigh.....
That's not it. Our structure hasn't changed much without Marshall. Paddy/Lycett have still played as target #1; and Westhoff/Ebert, as #2. I asked who would do Marshall's work as tall (target #3). I suspect that it may have been Connor Rozee.
 

OneGreatClub

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There! Dixon is out, and we haven't actually replaced him. We are playing, just like last year, without a #1 target down front.

Ryder is replacing Dixon, which is odd — to say the least. Ryder/Lycett should be our #2 target, with Westhoff/Marshall/Ebert/Watts rotating as #3.

Marshall is not a KPF, and that's fine. If we were willing to proper replace Dixon, we would be playing Frampton.
That’s not how we roll :(
 

Janus

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There! Dixon is out, and we haven't actually replaced him. We are playing, just like last year, without a #1 target down front.

Ryder is replacing Dixon, which is odd — to say the least. Ryder/Lycett should be our #2 target, with Westhoff/Marshall/Ebert/Watts rotating as #3.

Marshall is not a KPF, and that's fine. If we were willing to proper replace Dixon, we would be playing Frampton.
It’s actually Westhoff that’s replacing Dixon. Charlie isn’t the type of player that you anchor in the forward line - he’s a good field kick too.

That’s why Westhoff had a great game against Melbourne but has struggled since. He gets the best defender now.
 

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