Welcome Pick 16 (2016) - Todd Marshall

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Powerage

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Aug 14, 2014
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In fairness to Powerage, I posted these stats. He then decided other stats were more important like contested marks, marks inside 50 and shots at goal.

Obviously Todd plays a higher role as a lead up player and if we're doing everything right, he shouldn't need to take contested marks because he should be in space or dragging a defender away from another forward in space.
He doesn't take more lead up marks either.


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Look I'm tired of the vitriol I am getting from you both. The stats I posted are indisputable. The fact that philthy05 would take stats posted by you to show that Marshall is good and, thinking they were posted by me, then make fun of them and say I was using them to say Marshall was bad just shows what is going on here. I could post that Marshall has flat feet and you would jump down my throat even if I produced a doctor's certificate.

The stats I posted are correct and to any sane person they indicate that Marshall has got flaws in his game and that his win ratio has as much to do with luck as it does to do with his incredible decoy skills. No matter what I say there are always other excuses, other stats which you produce that prove to you that Marshall is the man.

You have not been able to admit that one of the statistics I have produced has been relevant or correct. They are all wrong, they are all only laughworthy, even when I didn't actually post the stats. That is what is really worth a laugh.

Grow up.
 
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Enviable Tradition

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If that is directed at me, I have never compared Marshall to other KPF's. However if I was going to, here is my understanding of AFL level key forward development.

All of thise guys are head and shoulders above Marshall in two or more of the following areas:
  1. Contested Marks
  2. Marks inside Fifty
  3. Shots on goal.
Yeah its useful that Marshall takes marks up the ground but if I were his defender I would let him run up the ground, get somebody else to zone or stand him and get ready to double team Dixon. Maybe that's why all of those guys are in the team and Marshall is not.
Marshall is one of the best kicks inside 50 in the team and that is something we are desperate for.

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Enviable Tradition

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Its on the record they are all top 10 picks. I have no idea about the prior picks of those clubs.

I rate them higher as true KPF's. Can you acknowledge they would all be better decoys for Dixon than Marshall?

I do get frustrated at his hesitance to hit the contest, or lead up inside 50. Noone can deny that if he had the mindset of Georgiades or Butters he would be twice the KPF he is now. I'm hoping that as his body matures he will learn to impose himself more using his frame and his skills to become a bigger threat up forward.

I don't want to be seen to be deriding Marshall. He has gone through things no young person his age should have to. I recognise his physical attributes and skill. Yes play him for the rest of the year. Play him as form dictates vs Laddhams and Georgiades as true KPF's. If one of them proves to have better form and win their opportunity, try Marshalls abilities somewhere else before dropping him I think. He may yet become a KPF. He has the attributes to be a better swingman than Westhoff once he builds his tank and his frame. He could even become an All Australian Defender in the future. He has got the body, athleticism and skills most players would kill for. As yet he doesn't seem to have the desire or the desperation to win every contest at all costs like our very best players do.

What I get tired of are the people who say and blindly repeat, that
this has been his best year when the stats don't much support that,
that this is why Dixon is having his best year without taking into account Dixon had his firs full season with extra training in America,
that his win loss ratio speaks for itself when he has had a scattered career playing lower ranked teams which has partly contributed to that ratio,
that he is at least as much of a true KPF as the other 22under22s when IMO he is not a true KPF at all.

For mine a true KPF is a threat when the ball is heading inside 50. He will lead or contest and either mark the ball or bring it down front and square more often than not or give their damnedest in the attempt. Who can say Marshall really does that often enough as yet?
Marshall is Smith not Hodges.

You need both.

Ask John Cahill how important Smith was.

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El_Scorcho

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He doesn't take more lead up marks either.


View attachment 956653
If he doesn't take more lead up marks and doesn't take more marks inside 50, where do you think he takes marks, given he takes as many marks as his contemporaries?

I haven't said anything unreasonable to you, I've attacked your points. Philthy misread and I corrected him in the next post, he then immediately edited his post. This isn't a witch hunt. We've both been posting on this forum for a long time and we've never had a run in

Every single developing tall has flaws, and they are commonly accused of not being physical enough as they are developing because they're giving up weight and AFL level experience of bodywork to their direct opponents. That improves as they physically fill out and learn to use their body. Could Marshall be better? Sure. So can everyone.

The stats you posted are fine and relevant. The stats I posted are also fine and relevant. If you don't want to see Marshall's value to the side because you'd prefer he was a different player playing a different role at this stage of his career, that's on you. If you think his winning record is due to luck, I think that shows a lack of understanding about how we play. Whether it suits you or not, he makes us better as a team and his performance is in line with other highly rated key forwards his age and level of experience.
 

philthy05

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He doesn't take more lead up marks either.


View attachment 956653

View attachment 956643

Look I'm tired of the vitriol I am getting from you both. The stats I posted are indisputable. The fact that philthy05 would take stats posted by you to show that Marshall is good and, thinking they were posted by me, then make fun of them and say I was using them to say Marshall was bad just shows what is going on here. I could post that Marshall has flat feet and you would jump down my throat even if I produced a doctor's certificate.

The stats I posted are correct and to any sane person they indicate that Marshall has got flaws in his game and that his win ratio has as much to do with luck as it does to do with his incredible decoy skills. No matter what I say there are always other excuses, other stats which you produce that prove to you that Marshall is the man.

You have not been able to admit that one of the statistics I have produced has been relevant or correct. They are all wrong, they are all only laughworthy, even when I didn't actually post the stats. That is what is really worth a laugh.

Grow up.
they’re not indisputable. El Scorcho beyond a doubt completely disproved your incorrect take on them. The fact we’ve had to explain to you that judging a kf on marks inside 50 and goals when he’s our 21yr old kf playing as the 2nd to a dominant kf that our team looks to is beyond belief. Marshall has a role and he plays it well.

vitriol? We’ve shown you no more than you’ve shown us, or Todd for the matter. You’re defensive because you don’t like us arguing with you.

mistaking who posted those stats was an easy mistake, and to pretend to be offended by it like it was some huge insult is a defensive overreaction.

Stop trying to play the victim, you’re a grown adult. You made some claims on Marshall and have been taken to task on it.
 

Powerage

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Aug 14, 2014
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If he doesn't take more lead up marks and doesn't take more marks inside 50, where do you think he takes marks, given he takes as many marks as his contemporaries?

I haven't said anything unreasonable to you, I've attacked your points. Philthy misread and I corrected him in the next post, he then immediately edited his post. This isn't a witch hunt. We've both been posting on this forum for a long time and we've never had a run in

Every single developing tall has flaws, and they are commonly accused of not being physical enough as they are developing because they're giving up weight and AFL level experience of bodywork to their direct opponents. That improves as they physically fill out and learn to use their body. Could Marshall be better? Sure. So can everyone.

The stats you posted are fine and relevant. The stats I posted are also fine and relevant. If you don't want to see Marshall's value to the side because you'd prefer he was a different player playing a different role at this stage of his career, that's on you. If you think his winning record is due to luck, I think that shows a lack of understanding about how we play. Whether it suits you or not, he makes us better as a team and his performance is in line with other highly rated key forwards his age and level of experience.
I don't know and I don't want to discuss it. Ask StatsPro I've already been ridiculed for posting those stats deriding Marshall in the first place by Philthy05 and the stress is making me cry ;)
 

Expat power

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Marshall is one of the best kicks inside 50 in the team and that is something we are desperate for.

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Agree. Marshall’s kick to Charlie after the fast break in q1 last night, centimetre perfect. He’s a really smart player. I think many people don’t realise how tall he is and that while he has speed his height often makes it look like he lumbering around the ground, he’s not. Watch his pressure, his tackles, he’s brilliant.
 

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Revan11

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Aug 7, 2015
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He ll make it for sure. He’s building the aspects of his game piece by piece and eventually it will all come together, we’ve seen glimpses of each part. Another proper pre season and proper season to build into I think next year we ll see him start to dominate.
 

Duckimus Prime

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Apr 26, 2008
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Hesitance to hit up contests? False. He’s fine. fu** he was crashing plenty of packs early in the year when people were critical of him flying for the same ball as Dixon. He’s been crashing packs in the magpies for years. He’s not even near a finished product physically either.
Marshall wasn't the one crashing in packs and spoiling Dixon. That was Westhoff. The criticism of Marshall is that he wasn't separating from contests, so his man could simply move to add an extra number against Charlie. And when doing that Marshall wasn't even influencing the contest, he was setting up to rove.

It stuck out horribly against Brisbane. He continually brought Gardner in to engage physically with Dixon while he sat off the contest himself. Which simply allowed Andrews to sit back and jump into to the contest and punch the ball 20m away so the small and Marshall setting up to rove around Dixon were completely out of the game.
 

chickentendies

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Marshall wasn't the one crashing in packs and spoiling Dixon. That was Westhoff. The criticism of Marshall is that he wasn't separating from contests, so his man could simply move to add an extra number against Charlie. And when doing that Marshall wasn't even influencing the contest, he was setting up to rove.

It stuck out horribly against Brisbane. He continually brought Gardner in to engage physically with Dixon while he sat off the contest himself. Which simply allowed Andrews to sit back and jump into to the contest and punch the ball 20m away so the small and Marshall setting up to rove around Dixon were completely out of the game.
And Marshall will learn from it. He clearly has a great footy IQ and the sooner he learns these lessons the better.
 

Dylan8

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Best inside 50 of the year poetry in motion
When do you ever see Chaz running for the ball in space like that? I thought Jay Schulz was attacking the footy till it didn't end up with him launching at the footy and crashing to the ground with the ball. I guess you back Charlie in to take the contested mark but I'd like to see him get more seperation like that. Hawkins gets his marks with a much more even spread of leads and wrestles. Charlie basically only get the latter.
 

Powerage

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This is why you keep Marshall in the side. The Marshall-Dixon factor to come to the fore in October.


As long as you don't mind your 2st key tall having 10 disposals at 60% DE, 3 marks, 0 Contested Marks, 0 attempted contested marks, 0 Marks on a Lead,, 0 attempted marks on a lead, 1 Mark inside 50, 0 tackles inside 50, 1 spoil, 0.1 Goals, 30% clangers, 20% turnovers

but on the bright side

24 - 7 Now.

1 sh*t hot inside 50 out of 3, 4 tackles and 5 score involvements (not his fault but I think they were were all points).

I don't doubt Marshall's skill or athleticism, and he has the height but he will not hold his position unless he starts to improve. Laddhams or Georgiades will overtake him as 2st KPP which will be a crime. Those stats just don't support the supposition that he is an effective decoy or leading forward to support Dixon.

I am sure I will I will get slammed for this but where exactly have I got it wrong?
 
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Shaxx Attaxx

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When do you ever see Chaz running for the ball in space like that? I thought Jay Schulz was attacking the footy till it didn't end up with him launching at the footy and crashing to the ground with the ball. I guess you back Charlie in to take the contested mark but I'd like to see him get more seperation like that. Hawkins gets his marks with a much more even spread of leads and wrestles. Charlie basically only get the latter.
I would love to see Dixon lead more (Like Hawkins). Not sure why he doesn’t since he’s quicker than most.
 

Chrizzt

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I would love to see Dixon lead more (Like Hawkins). Not sure why he doesn’t since he’s quicker than most.
Because he's not as good at reading the flight of the ball combined with having the ol' cinderblock hands. Much easier to read + soften hands when you're stationary. When he tries to run at the ball is when he tends to flat palm them and spill the marks.
 

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