Player Watch Pick #16 (2016) - Todd Marshall

[RangaInTeal]

he was only statistically the best or 2nd best kf in the league for the first third of last year and has been holding his marks for a while.

was our best marking threat in the trial game.

for those watching he’s been holding marks. Some will never accept he’s a key forward until he wins the Coleman / Brownlow medal double.

Consistency hurts, however he is 22/23? Key Forwards don’t really come of Age until they are 25ish and then enjoy 4-5 years, bar Franklin. Marshall just needs to keep on the park for 22games this year.

 

[AFC AFeederClub]

but hes still got chicken arms?

 

[Powerage]

Consistency hurts, however he is 22/23? Key Forwards don’t really come of Age until they are 25ish and then enjoy 4-5 years, bar Franklin. Marshall just needs to keep on the park for 22games this year.

This is a fallacy.

Carey was AA Captain at the age of 22, Jack Riewolt a Coleman Medal Winner, Nick twice AA by the age of 24 as was Chris Grant and our own Warren Tredrea just to name a few.

Some Key forwards don't develop until later, some make their mark earlier.. Noone would blame Marshall for taking a while to develop given personal tragedy, injury and a frame that as of last season was still not ready to hold down a Key Position Post. Everyone hopes that he can play a full season without injury to allow his confidence and his attack on the ball to blossom.

 

[El_Scorcho]

It's not just age, it's AFL experience.

Todd has played 34 games of AFL footy which has been stop start, initially due to poor selection strategy and family tragedy and in 2021, injury.

Keep backing him in and the results will come. We've all seen the talent. This is what every single other club does with their blue chip key forwards. We just have to do it as well.

 

[philthy05]

This is a fallacy.

Carey was AA Captain at the age of 22, Jack Riewolt a Coleman Medal Winner, Nick twice AA by the age of 24 as was Chris Grant and our own Warren Tredrea just to name a few.

Some Key forwards don't develop until later, some make their mark earlier.. Noone would blame Marshall for taking a while to develop given personal tragedy, injury and a frame that as of last season was still not ready to hold down a Key Position Post. Everyone hopes that he can play a full season without injury to allow his confidence and his attack on the ball to blossom.

“That’s not true”






*Goes on to present Hall of Famers for comparison.

 

[Harlott]

“That’s not true”






*Goes on to present Hall of Famers for comparison.

GA snr only got going at 22 or 23yrs old.......

 

[JUSTWORK]

GA snr only got going at 22 or 23yrs old.......

For context GA Snr debuted at 21 for the Hawks, 6 games for 10 Goals. Moved to Geelong and went at over 2 goals a game in his second year.

41 games after 3 years for 125 goals.

 

[Powerade 08]

Consistency hurts, however he is 22/23? Key Forwards don’t really come of Age until they are 25ish and then enjoy 4-5 years, bar Franklin. Marshall just needs to keep on the park for 22games this year.

No, they almost all come on in year 4 on a list. Some take an extra year. Marshall is entitled to an extra year. If they don't break out in their first 5 years, they probably just aren't good enough.

 

[Boxx]

For context GA Snr debuted at 21 for the Hawks, 6 games for 10 Goals. Moved to Geelong and went at over 2 goals a game in his second year.

41 games after 3 years for 125 goals.

SO, pretty much he was s**t until he was 24... case closed I spose!

 

[JUSTWORK]

SO, pretty much he was sh*t until he was 24... case closed I spose!

Probably not how I’d put it

 

[chiwigi]

It's not just age, it's AFL experience.

Todd has played 34 games of AFL footy which has been stop start, initially due to poor selection strategy and family tragedy and in 2021, injury.

Keep backing him in and the results will come. We've all seen the talent. This is what every single other club does with their blue chip key forwards. We just have to do it as well.

I'm keeping my promise to hold off until he has played 50!

 

[Eddie Dingle]

I'm keeping my promise to hold off until he has played 50!

50 games is about the lowest I've heard a player refer to when they said they felt like they "belonged" out there. For a lot of others that number is 70-90. Of course there are your Judd's or Rowell's who a couple of games in just went boom but for the majority it's almost 3-4 seasons worth of experience.

34 games isn't a lot.

 

[El_Scorcho]

34 consecutive games is also better than 34 games where you are in and out of the side.

The biggest factor for me in believing Ken Hinkley might have turned the corner in 2020 was that he played Marshall whenever he was available despite the classic external pressure to drop a developing tall. That shows me that Hinkley values the key forward position and is willing to do what it takes to strengthen us up forward long term.

 

[Schulzenfest]

34 consecutive games is also better than 34 games where you are in and out of the side.

The biggest factor for me in believing Ken Hinkley might have turned the corner in 2020 was that he played Marshall whenever he was available despite the classic external pressure to drop a developing tall. That shows me that Hinkley values the key forward position and is willing to do what it takes to strengthen us up forward long term.

I still don't think Hinkley has any respect for structure, I think he just likes the players he likes. He didn't like Frampton, Eddy or Butcher so he didn't play them. He does like Dixon, Marshall and Georgiades so he does play them.

 

[Power Raid]

but hes still got chicken arms?

As long as he builds a strong core, he won’t need beach muscles

 

[Ford Fairlane]

As long as he builds a strong core, he won’t need beach muscles

He looked noticeably thicker and stronger through the body in the trial game.

 

[Chewy316]

I still don't think Hinkley has any respect for structure, I think he just likes the players he likes. He didn't like Frampton, Eddy or Butcher so he didn't play them. He does like Dixon, Marshall and Georgiades so he does play them.

Marshall was dropped plenty of times prior to 2020. He even sent Dixon back to the magoos when his form was diabolical.

The quality of the latter three though compared to Frampton, Eddy and Butcher really is laughable. Frampton couldn't get a game at the worst club in the comp last year. Eddy was out of the league within 12 months, and Butcher had such a reliable kick for goal that you were still crossing your fingers when he had a set shot from the goal square.

 

[Marmozet]

If we got more games into him in 2018 and 2019 like we should have and he’s played, say, 54 games instead of 34 then he’d be in a much better position.

 

[AFC AFeederClub]

As long as he builds a strong core, he won’t need beach muscles

strong arms are highly underrated and are really needed for taking pack marks, its make s a big difference when you can hold your arms in the position you want them when when taking the mark and it also helps when outbodying the opponent for position, chicken arms mean you can be a nice lead-up player but thats about it

 

[El_Scorcho]

I still don't think Hinkley has any respect for structure, I think he just likes the players he likes. He didn't like Frampton, Eddy or Butcher so he didn't play them. He does like Dixon, Marshall and Georgiades so he does play them.

Don't get me wrong, i'd sack him yesterday, but there were several times last year where I felt like we might go in short and we didn't.

Remember Marshall played 11 regular season games at SANFL level in 2019 when we were crying out for a key forward.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Don't get me wrong, i'd sack him yesterday, but there were several times last year where I felt like we might go in short and we didn't.

Remember Marshall played 11 regular season games at SANFL level in 2019 when we were crying out for a key forward.

Honestly, given Todd's circumstances at the time I find it hard to be too harsh on Ken for not exposing him to the pressure cooker environment of AFL football when he was clearly out of form. Frampton is another issue though.

 

[backtozero]

Structure, past sins, John Butcher

John Butcher

Age

32

Ht

197cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

7.8

2star

K

4.8

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.6

5star

etc. etc, it was still the wrong call to play him second half of 2020. Form didn't deserve it and it showed.

Happy to give developing players games but not when its cut throat.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Structure, past sins, John Butcher etc. etc, it was still the wrong call to play him second half of 2020. Form didn't deserve it and it showed.

Happy to give developing players games but not when its cut throat.

There will always be a reason to not play developing tall forwards.

The only valid reason is because you already have 3 AFL quality tall forwards and you're gunning for a flag.

We're in an odd situation where we've neglected developing tall forwards at all for over a decade, arguably longer. The only 2 established key position forwards we've had in the last decade were traded in. If we'd worked hard on developing a tall forward in the first 7 years of Hinkley's campaign, we'd have at least 1 more AFL ready KPF by now who could have made a difference in 2020.

 

[backtozero]

There will always be a reason to not play developing tall forwards.

The only valid reason is because you already have 3 AFL quality tall forwards and you're gunning for a flag.

We're in an odd situation where we've neglected developing tall forwards at all for over a decade, arguably longer. The only 2 established key position forwards we've had in the last decade were traded in. If we'd worked hard on developing a tall forward in the first 7 years of Hinkley's campaign, we'd have at least 1 more AFL ready KPF by now who could have made a difference in 2020.

This is all true.

However, when a guy hasn't played a good game for 6, 7, 8 weeks they should be dropped, especially when finals are approaching. To not experiment with other options in that time, Georgiades for example, is negligent. Hell, even Westhoff was never statistically that bad. A last roll of the dice could have paid dividends.

Unless someone is actually happy with Todd's output in the second half of the year, then it was the wrong call.

Like I said though, more than happy for him to continue his development and he certainly has the talent. I just think his selection in that prelim was one of the factors that went towards the loss and its worse because we could have seen it coming.

 

[dav3]

but hes still got chicken arms?