This season we have won 80% of games Marshall has played, but 100% of games that Sutcliffe has played. So it’s obvious that we must always play Sutcliffe.
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Player Watch Pick #16 (2016) - Todd Marshall
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This season we have won 80% of games Marshall has played, but 100% of games that Sutcliffe has played. So it’s obvious that we must always play Sutcliffe.
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As we saw with Gray and his early season broken toe, it can take a while to find form again after returning. I would go with a three tall forward line of Dixon, Marshall, and Ladhams this week but if Hoff or Georgiades are kicking goals in the scratch matches and Marshall doesn’t find form, I think we need to go with who is in form.... especially if that is Hoff who is very experienced and versatile. Hoff likely retired at the end of the season and then Marshall, Georgiades, and Ladhams compete for two spots next year.
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Marshall is soft, that might be because he's young or because he's naturally soft but either way i see him drop to many marks, i see him to lazy to burn off his oppo thats why he's always getting spoiled and i see him getting pushed under the ball too much, either through lack of strength or lack of judging the ball in the air correctly.
Port get a lot of forward half entries so i wouldnt be judging him on his goal total, thats by-and-by, judge him on what all tall forwards should be judged on owning the air and owning the position
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on this i think sutcliffe does play the role very good, its doesnt give him much accolades but it allows others to play well, structurally he may be important, so if the choice is sutcliffe or motlop then im leaning towards sutcliffe
I disagree with 95% of what you’ve said here
10 mins into his first game back from a broken thumb he goes for a smother yet he’s somehow soft? Nobody even knew when he first broke his thumb cause he tried to play through it. He’s pretty rarely spoiled to be honest. If you don’t count the two games back from a broken thumb he was taking marks pretty damn well when he pushed up the ground. Pushed under the ball a bit? In past seasons yes the 20yr old developing kf has been by seasoned defenders.
I think soft is the wrong word to use. A lack of physicality in his game is what i would say. Now hes still quite young and obviously hasnt filled out so time is on his side to improve that over the next few years.
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He's played 30 games. Judge him by what 30 game key forwards are doing. He's also just come back from a 6 week injury layoff.
Our high level of forward half entries also mean the defence is pinned on our forward half with us, so he's not getting the space in transition or cheapies over the top that other key forwards of his experience level might get.
He either gets backed in to find form, or a decade from now we're all still furrowing our brows and wondering why none of the obviously talented KPFs we draft seem to come on.
No one is immune to criticism, and maybe i am biased but i love what Marshall brings. Perhaps its not always reflected on the scoreboard or stats sheet, but he is an important part of the side. There is no co-incidence Charlie plays better when he is in the side.
Schulzenfest
TheBrownDog
Considering the majority of his games came in 2011-2013, that's actually relatively good.
100%.
Out entire forward half system looks better when he is there. Talls and smalls.
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Over the last 3 seasons (Marshall's entire career), there has been either 1 or 2 wins between 7th and 12th at the end of the season.
Including 2017 there have been a difference of 2, 3, 3 and 5 games plus considerable percentage between teams positioned 7th and 13th.
Marshall's career has been extremely scattered which always has the potential to seriously skew his record. Look at his career:
2017 Rd 22, 23, Elim Final
2018 Rd 1 to 4, Rd 13 to 15
2019 Rd 1 to 2, Rd 5 to 8, Rd 20 to 23
2020, in a season where we have been winning with or without Marshall, Rd 1 to 8, Rd 14 and 16
Across those games he has had the following stats:
| GM | Disposals | Marks | Marks Outside 50 | Goals | Behinds | Tackles | GA |
| 30 | 8.9 | 3.1 | 2.0 | 1 | 0.7 | 2.4 | 0.6 |
These are all below average stats for a KPF except for Goals which is average and tackles which is above average.
All this combined makes the win loss ratio in games difficult to assign significant causation too. If you can't admit that you are in denial. Yes, the most significant causation is improved forward structure and as a decoy for Dixon. But with those stats he is hardly setting the world on fire in either role. But his win loss ratio has as much to do with luck as his contribution to the outcome of games. Anyone looking at all of these factors objectively must agree.
I think everyone agrees on his strengths and his value to our side & the forward structure. But I was watching him carefully on Saturday, & IMO he doesnt go for the contested ball nearly hard enough. We cant deny it, and we shouldnt ignore it. I hope the coaches have identified this, and are helping address it. I liked the piece in on AFL.com regarding Diesel Williams' take on Paddy Dow of Carlton ... The same is true of Todd - Good player, but needs to lift a level.
CARLTON legend Greg Williams has taken aim at former No.3 draft pick Paddy Dow – a player he was invited back to the Blues to coach last season. "He got back last week. I thought just watching him, he's just not desperate enough, not going hard enough and I'm pretty blunt, but I think you get what you deserve." Williams told SEN.
"You've got to toughen up.
Williams has previously transformed Hawthorn's Tom Mitchell into a Brownlow medallist and before that worked with Essendon captain Jobe Watson and the Bombers' midfield group. "I remember telling Jobe Watson this when he was about 19, I said 'You've got to play like a man or don't play'," Williams said. "Jobe was thinking he was going hard, he was going half-hard. Then he starts going hard and he turns into a man and same with (Sydney co-captain) Josh Kennedy.
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CARLTON legend Greg Williams has taken aim at former No.3 draft pick Paddy Dow – a player he was invited back to the Blues to coach last season. "He got back last week. I thought just watching him, he's just not desperate enough, not going hard enough and I'm pretty blunt, but I think you get what you deserve." Williams told SEN.
"You've got to toughen up.
Williams has previously transformed Hawthorn's Tom Mitchell into a Brownlow medallist and before that worked with Essendon captain Jobe Watson and the Bombers' midfield group. "I remember telling Jobe Watson this when he was about 19, I said 'You've got to play like a man or don't play'," Williams said. "Jobe was thinking he was going hard, he was going half-hard. Then he starts going hard and he turns into a man and same with (Sydney co-captain) Josh Kennedy.
'You've got to toughen up': Diesel slams Carlton's former No.3 pick
Carlton champion Greg Williams has delivered some blunt advice for 2018 NAB AFL Draft No.3 pick Paddy Dow
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"Objectively", Jesus Christ. His contribution isn't just kicks and handballs, it's about how he works with the other forwards to give us one of the most effective forward lines we've had under Hinkley.
His stats might be below average compared to established KPFs, but again, what are they like compared to other KPFs who came into the season with 20 games under their belts? Your expectations aren't in line with reality.
Have a look at the stats of the key forwards in the 22under22 side that was just announced. I guarantee Todd Marshall makes that side if he hadn't missed 6 weeks with injury.
I really don’t agree with the majority of criticism nor understand the vitriol angled at Marshall. He’s a young KPP who historically take longer to develop and he is 2 games back from injury.
I had seen improvements in his game and thought he was developing nicely until his injury. He clearly has a unique set of talents so using a cookie cutter approach is pointless when comparing him to other developing players let alone trying to ascertain if he is any good thru stats.
Let him develop. Let him find continuity, confidence and learn his craft.
I don’t know if it’s agenda driven or a clear lack of understanding of the cycle of a player’s development that leads to such hasty condemnation but a little patience wouldn’t go astray and this can be applied to a lot of other players in our squad.
I had seen improvements in his game and thought he was developing nicely until his injury. He clearly has a unique set of talents so using a cookie cutter approach is pointless when comparing him to other developing players let alone trying to ascertain if he is any good thru stats.
Let him develop. Let him find continuity, confidence and learn his craft.
I don’t know if it’s agenda driven or a clear lack of understanding of the cycle of a player’s development that leads to such hasty condemnation but a little patience wouldn’t go astray and this can be applied to a lot of other players in our squad.
Diesel is right, intensity and hunger for the ball is paramount to being a very successful footballer and is especially crucial to the type of players mentioned. They are all inside midfielders or extractors not 200cm 21yo KPP.
I didn’t say that. Infact I said it is paramount for any player to be successful.
Bullcrap! Just look at charlie's attack on every ball - Be it in the air, on the ground, in the hands of an oppo player!
It doenst matter what position you play, intensity at each contest is an absolute! I love the guy, and I certainly never have, nor ever seen, VITRIOL directed at him. As part of his development, he needs to address this as a weakness in his game. If and when he does, he will go from being a role player, to a potentially great KPF
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It absolutely is, but 200cm players play a harder position and take longer to come on physically. Which is why basically no KPFs are dominating at 21
Bullcrap to what? Did you read my post?
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Lets compare stats then. The below is Dixon's output with and without Todd in the team (remember Mitch was in the Todd role whilst he was out):
| With Marshall | Without Marshall | Difference | |
| Disposals | 10.50 | 7.80 | -2.70 |
| Goals | 2.86 | 1.75 | -1.11 |
| Behinds | 2.00 | 2.50 | 0.50 |
| Tackles | 2.60 | 1.25 | -1.35 |
| i50 | 1.50 | 1.75 | 0.25 |
| Marks | 4.88 | 3.20 | -1.68 |
| CM | 3.63 | 2.50 | -1.13 |
| Mi50 | 3.00 | 2.50 | -0.50 |
| GA | 1.00 | 1.50 | 0.50 |
Basically, Dixon has on average 20-25% more output with Todd in the side than when he doesn't. It isn't all about Todd's numbers, its how the team operates as a whole and when your number one target can increase their output that significantly by the addition of one player, you do it.
I thought Marshall had turned the corner in terms of his physicality this year but he's been tentative since coming back. He's never going to be a Dixon power forward, he's a skilled, athletic, versatile mobile tall, dare I say Westhoff like. I was actually impressed with some of his ruck work against Goldstein, can't see that being developed though as we'll go back to 2 rucks. It wouldn't shock me if they think about him being turned into defender next year. Collingwood wouldn't have an AA defender in Moore if they hadn't trialled him in defence. We might also be better balanced only having Dixon, Ladhams & Georgiades as the talls in the forward line.
Of course they do, no one is disputing that.
Reality is, Marshall is now in his 4 year and needs to start doing better. His attack in the contest isn’t nearly good enough and for a guy who is 198cm in his marking isn’t at the level it should be.
We have seen far batter attack on the footy and Marking contests from Mitch Georgiades this year and he missed 18 month through injury before this year.
With Ladhams likely to come back in as 3rd tall forward / 2nd ruck that probably leaves one stop for MG or Marshall.
Marshall now needs to prove he is the better option than MG for that spot in the side and from what we have seen from the two this year, I’m not sure he it.
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If he can add a few goals to his game, it will further decrease the pressure on Dixon because they'll be a little more concerned with stopping Marshall if he can crop up when they clamp Dixon.
Just needs more time. He and Dixon and the small forwards still have improvement in them and their connection/ability to read the actions of each other and preempt good positioning.
I guess it's good that we still have room for improvement and sit at the top of the ladder. Just need to beat some genuinely good sides that are in good form at the time.
Just needs more time. He and Dixon and the small forwards still have improvement in them and their connection/ability to read the actions of each other and preempt good positioning.
I guess it's good that we still have room for improvement and sit at the top of the ladder. Just need to beat some genuinely good sides that are in good form at the time.
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