Pick 2

[HirdyLannister]

I completely disagree, these days the draft is ranked and rated even higher then ever before. The competition is more even than it's ever been in the games history, getting your hands around an early pick is huge to any clubs success, I really don't think I need to go through examples of this, just about every team besides Geelong to recently win a premiership has a very good player they picked up very early in the draft who contributed massively. The way I see it with pick 1 and 2 is that baring freakishly bad luck with injuries, your pretty much guaranteed a very good player at minimum.

I think two A grade 23-25 year olds for a very good player at minimum, possibly elite for 10-12 years is very much spot on the money.

Delusional - is that why Hawthorn traded their first round pick last year for Lake.

A developed player > a early pick every day of the week. How many top 10 picks have Melbourne had recently? They have been doing really well recently aren't they?

Give me a break, the best a early pick gets you is a developed player of 4-6 years in the system who potentially will break out.
An IF he agrees to go to the basket case of a club like Melbourne with a likely hood of not being competitive for a flag until 4 years.

 

[Fitzey]

Anyone heard any recent news in who Pick 2 is going to go to?? Also i've got a trade game for trade board memebers to join. If you like trading etc you will love this, and best of all it's on Big Footy. Link: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...ame-all-in-one-starting-26th-october.1035567/

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Delusional - is that why Hawthorn traded their first round pick last year for Lake.

A developed player > a early pick every day of the week. How many top 10 picks have Melbourne had recently? They have been doing really well recently aren't they?

Give me a break, the best a early pick gets you is a developed player of 4-6 years in the system who potentially will break out.
An IF he agrees to go to the basket case of a club like Melbourne with a likely hood of not being competitive for a flag until 4 years.

How many other examples like Brian lake do you have? Il answer that, none. And it very much will probably come back to bite them soon when they begin to slide down the ladder trading away so many picks. And please tell me how hawthorn would have gone last year and 2008 if they hadn't of traded for the number one pick and have hodge, franklin and roughead? Think they would have been better off going for mature recruits? Thanks for proving my point why they were up there in the gf

So would you like to go through all the premiers and see how important the early draft picks were to them winning or making a gf? Or even just the top four sides? Just about every single one beside Geelong and Sydney needed the help of early picks to make it to a gf, that says something about its value

 

[HirdyLannister]

How many other examples like Brian lake do you have? Il answer that, none. And it very much will probably come back to bite them soon when they begin to slide down the ladder trading away so many picks. And please tell me how hawthorn would have gone last year and 2008 if they hadn't of traded for the number one pick and have hodge, franklin and roughead? Think they would have been better off going for mature recruits? Thanks for proving my point why they were up there in the gf

So would you like to go through all the premiers and see how important the early draft picks were to them winning or making a gf? Or even just the top four sides? Just about every single one beside Geelong and Sydney needed the help of early picks to make it to a gf, that says something about its value

Burgoyne.. Two first rounds hawks gave up for him I'm pretty sure...

Why do you think Geelong traded there early pick for caddy who hasn't show much yet or again with Adams it will be likely varco+first round for Adams who has been developing for 2 years.

Geelong are after developed players and not picks to take a risk.

 

[Bluelegs]

Absolutely I rate those guys. Roughead would be the 2nd best player on the list but until this year was only a very good 2nd fiddle forward. Thomas struggled early then had a few very good years and has been cut down by injury. Ball and Wells have had some quality but a fair bit of disappointment too.

Why would a team give up a proven part of their next 5+ years for an unproven but quality youngster? Even if they're likely to get a slightly better player it's very unlikely any club would be willing to take that short-term step back. Take Mitch Duncan for example. He's a proven good young player but he's certainly no superstar. Would Melbourne be happy with pick 2 for Duncan? Not from the sounds of things. Would Geelong do that? Maybe but it would set us back for next year and possibly hurt the culture of the place by giving up a player who's done nothing wrong and doesn't want to leave.

So if you go for a direct swap, either you've got to go for:

1) A player who wants to leave their current club and is happy to come to Melbourne. Very unlikely.
2) A player who their club isn't desperate to keep. In this case they might be a good player but clearly they've got some massive issues (say Martin for example) which would be a big risk for Melbourne.
3) A player where the other club is happy to do a deal so they're likely to be a significantly worse player than what pick 2 will be.

Apart from situation 1, which is incredibly unlikely, there's simply no value in trading pick 2 for a single player. Much better to get a young, talented but still unproven player along with downgrading your pick somewhat to give yourself 2 bites at the cherry rather than going for the 1 big signing.

I feel like this has been a poor choice from a lot of teams, a huge kpf prospect on the horizon and yet no team is willing to make a short term setback to secure their forward-line for the next ten years. midfielders come and go and are generally fairly replaceable. I find it bizarre that a team like Collingwood who won't win a flag in the next few years until they tweak their list refuse to give up one of their big players like for example beams to secure a top line kpf.

Same as Carlton who should be trying to trade Gibbs and another good player for Boyd. I can understand teams not going for pick 2 because the reward isn't as great but if collingwood or carlton were bold enough to revitalize their list with a young forward for a season or two they could re-open their premiership window for a long time.

Losing one of your top mids is a setback for sure but for these teams it would only take a couple of seasons to fill that hole. It is so much harder to find a good kpf. Hell, Carlton have been after one ever since Fev left.

 

[HirdyLannister]

Exactly thank you father and son <3 Daniher

 

[DrEvil]

I agree Melbourne will probably have to settle for a good player and decent draft pick or 2 good players instead of absolute A graders.

But seriously...you wouldnt trade Zaharakis for pick 2?? He aint that good. No where near as good as the other names on that list

He's required at Essendon. I can see Sidebottom for pick 2 though.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Burgoyne.. Two first rounds hawks gave up for him I'm pretty sure...

Why do you think Geelong traded there early pick for caddy who hasn't show much yet or again with Adams it will be likely varco+first round for Adams who has been developing for 2 years.

Geelong are after developed players and not picks to take a risk.

Caddy has sown heaps actually and will be around our club for ten+ years, we were very happy with his season.

Premierships are own at the draft table, not at the trade table, besides Sydney( and we all know how and why), tell me who else are these teams to win premierships without huge help from a high draft pick? Hawthorn had multiple high draft picks that they moulded a premiership around, franklin and roughead, collingwood had didak Thomas Luke ball Ben Reid, Thomas was a very big player in their premiership year, that st kilda team that came so close had a handful of early draft picks, west coast had Chris Judd, Brisbane had a host of special concessions and early draft picks. Going to the draft with an early pick is huge in the long run for premiership success, not giving them away for a senior Solid B grader

 

[HirdyLannister]

Oh course teams are built at the draft but the players these delusional Melbourne supporters are suggesting are from teams that aren't in full rebuild, they will be wanting to push into the 8 next year and they won't give up any player required in their best 12-14 for pick 2. The best from Essendon they would get would be Myers, Hibberd, Stanton (an I do doubt any of them would agree to it if they want to stay at Essendon) but we would use that pick two to try and get shuey if we could get in his ear wanting to play with his best mate Zaha.

 

[HirdyLannister]

Btw Hibberd is in our best 12 but we do have others that could play that role...

 

[Bardo State]

Caddy has sown heaps actually and will be around our club for ten+ years, we were very happy with his season.

Premierships are own at the draft table, not at the trade table, besides Sydney( and we all know how and why), tell me who else are these teams to win premierships without huge help from a high draft pick? Hawthorn had multiple high draft picks that they moulded a premiership around, franklin and roughead, collingwood had didak Thomas Luke ball Ben Reid, Thomas was a very big player in their premiership year, that st kilda team that came so close had a handful of early draft picks, west coast had Chris Judd, Brisbane had a host of special concessions and early draft picks. Going to the draft with an early pick is huge in the long run for premiership success, not giving them away for a senior Solid B grader

If premierships are only won at the draft table then explain Gibson, Hale, Gunston, Burgoyne, Lake, Guerra this year. Doubt we would have won a premiership without those guys playing.

Gunston and Hale were probably the players of the finals series for Hawthorn, we wouldn't have won the PF without Burgoyne, Lake won the Norm Smith and Gibson and Guerra played brilliantly all year.

 

[HirdyLannister]

If premierships are only won at the draft table then explain Gibson, Hale, Gunston, Burgoyne, Lake, Guerra this year. Doubt we would have won a premiership without those guys playing.

Gunston and Hale were probably the players of the finals series for Hawthorn, we wouldn't have won the PF without Burgoyne, Lake won the Norm Smith and Gibson and Guerra played brilliantly all year.

Don't forget STWIEEEE DEW he WAS the 08 grand final

<3 stewie

 

[RIOLIUSTAR]

So would you like to go through all the premiers and see how important the early draft picks were to them winning or making a gf? Or even just the top four sides? Just about every single one beside Geelong and Sydney needed the help of early picks to make it to a gf, that says something about its value

So basically your saying 50%

 

[iBeng]

Caddy has sown heaps actually and will be around our club for ten+ years, we were very happy with his season.

Didnt even know he was a farmer :O

 

[master bate]

Oh course teams are built at the draft but the players these delusional Melbourne supporters are suggesting are from teams that aren't in full rebuild, they will be wanting to push into the 8 next year and they won't give up any player required in their best 12-14 for pick 2. The best from Essendon they would get would be Myers, Hibberd, Stanton (an I do doubt any of them would agree to it if they want to stay at Essendon) but we would use that pick two to try and get shuey if we could get in his ear wanting to play with his best mate Zaha.

It's not delusional to want the high class player that pick two is worth. Most Melbourne supporters understand it's not an easy pick to trade because you need a club to be willing to part with a really decent player.

But if we are serious about this trade we wont be approaching clubs, we will be approaching managers of players and offering them the deal of money and a broad range of opportunities - to play a particular role, for leadership, for off field prominence as a star recruit. It's why most of the names Melbourne supporters have brought up have been interstate players because the opportunity to go home would be part of the package.

Clubs wont want to trade very good young players. But if a very good young player goes to their club and says I know I'm contracted but I really wish to go to Melbourne and they are willing to give you pick 2 then that certainly would change things.

 

[theflea]

Trust me I want as many mids in the team as possible as well but I have considered it. To put it simply it works like this

Gawn = Bailey - rucks 75% of the game and only does brief goal square cameos.
Clark = Hale
Dawes and Hogan = Franklin and Roughy
Howe = Gunston
Frawley, McDonald and Garland = Lake, Gibson and Stratton
Watts = Isaac Smith

Now I'd argue Gawn and Clark move every bit if not better than Bailey and Hale. We lose out the next two that's for sure but Dawes moves better when the ball hits the deck than people realise. His forward pressure is very good. Hogan has youth on his side and can play high up the ground as well and he's one of those natural footballers that doesn't move like a big man because he has great footy smarts.

Howe is a more natural midfielder than Gunston in fact I'd play Howe on a wing as much as forward if not more and if he isn't performing I'd put him in the 2's. The defenders are very mobile no concern there.

The biggest question mark is what Watts can do as a full time tall outside midfielder. Personally I still think his best position is half back flank in a Birchall or Ibbotsan type role but if his work rate and endurance improve and he finds 20 touches and does some defensive work it doesn't really matter how tall he is on a wing. His speed is certainly good enough.

Remember we have Paul Roos coaching. There will be a focus on stoppages and that mandates ruckman. A half fit Clark and a guy who hates rucking backing him up in Dawes, that wont happen. A proper ruckman will play and I just hope it's Gawn and not Jamar or Spencer. If Dawes, Clark and Hogan are all fully fit and it's not quite working we will either stick with it knowing there's upside riding it out or we'll rest Hogan at times and develop him patiently.

nice write up but I would say that you cant compare buddy as a tall. he plays like a hff'er anyway. agree with most of this but still believe you would have 1 too many talls. you might be able to get away with this if you had 5 really good mids but you don't so I would either sacrifice the second no1 ruck or not play 1 of your other talls for team balance.

 

[Tulip]

Nonsensical discussion happening.

Melbourne isn't desperate to trade pick two by any means.

I know we have form, but we have a few very experienced operators guiding the club now and I can't see them making a diabolical decision here.

It's not a pick that we have to trade. People saying 'take Myers/Priddis/etc.' because they're the best you will get are deluded.

We see the opportunity to try and lure over a good, young midfielder over (Sloane/S.Selwood/Shuey/Rockliff/Zaharakis mould) to the club. If they don't want to come, or their club won't release them, we go to the draft and can pick any U18's midfielder in the country. Just because Trengove has under performed in the past two seasons, and Coniglio and O'Rourke get no media coverage, it doesn't mean pick 2 is worthless.

 

[HirdyLannister]

Melbourne isn't desperate to trade pick two by any means.

Yes you are, Roos stated he wants to inject some experience bodies into the midfield asap.

 

[Tulip]

Yes you are, Roos stated he wants to inject some experience bodies into the midfield asap.

Thanks, but I've read the quotes. Roos saying we want experienced bodies doesn't mean he's giving up a golden pick for rubbish.

 

[manny100]

It has been shown time and time again that clubs will not trade youngish very good talent. So I would be surprised if the MFC trades pick 2 unless it involves a very slight downgrade and an 'ok' player that Roos thinks can develop further.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Yes you are, Roos stated he wants to inject some experience bodies into the midfield asap.

Did he really? You must be right then. How about Dustin Fletcher for Pick 2? Doesn't get much more experienced than that, Roos would hardly believe his luck!

 

[Theo X]

Yes you are, Roos stated he wants to inject some experience bodies into the midfield asap.

And that can't be done with picks ~20? of which we will have two

 

[Enforcer25]

I get the feeling the Dees have had fruitful discussions with other clubs over players, such as Rockliff and Shuey, being given the impression that something WILL be worked out for pick 2... until coaches have been put into place at those clubs and have had / will have the final say. That being NO.

The club CLEARLY aren't desperate, as displayed by the decisively stating that there are only 3 or 4 players we would be targeting with pick 2.
There will be no panic and raffling it off for consummate spuds like Colyer and/or Leroy Jetta.

It's ok, I'm happy to keep pick 2.
Aish will be a jet. He is already.

 

[Bluelegs]

Yes you are, Roos stated he wants to inject some experience bodies into the midfield asap.

Yes we're falling over our feet to trade pick two for a fringe player. Turn it up.

 

[maverick001]

Had a weird dream the other night that Brisbane traded Rockliff+7 for 2+Hogan.

Weird.

That would have been a wet dream for a Lions supporter