Pick #2

[lose]

if scully isnt a great kik then why is he number one? so with that im saying that we have some excellent kicks to play in our midfield in sylvia, blease, morton, grimes and even jones's kicking has been exceptional in the later part of the season... plus i rate jetta and bennels field kicking very highly, plus the best field kick in the afl in davey... he is a super freak...

therefore i seriously think we have to take butcher... watts is going to be a CHF not FF, andf id hate to see jurrahs career tormented because he has to get monstered every week just as robbo was... butcher is a giant and is guna be a star... and thats guna happen at MELBOURNE for a long long time...

plus for those of you who rekon we should just wait and take another tall later in the draft, there is hardly any of them... but there will be midfielders... so that wat we'll take at 18...

 

[CM Sean]

Has anyone got any good vids of Butcher? I just watched the following and I'm not seeing anything special tbh.

[youtube]20KXJa1w7N0[/youtube]

 

[Dez!]

if scully isnt a great kik then why is he number one? so with that im saying that we have some excellent kicks to play in our midfield in sylvia, blease, morton, grimes and even jones's kicking has been exceptional in the later part of the season... plus i rate jetta and bennels field kicking very highly, plus the best field kick in the afl in davey... he is a super freak...

therefore i seriously think we have to take butcher... watts is going to be a CHF not FF, andf id hate to see jurrahs career tormented because he has to get monstered every week just as robbo was... butcher is a giant and is guna be a star... and thats guna happen at MELBOURNE for a long long time...

plus for those of you who rekon we should just wait and take another tall later in the draft, there is hardly any of them... but there will be midfielders... so that wat we'll take at 18...

I didn't say he wasn't a great kick just that it wasn't his absolute strength.

The bolded names all have problems:

1. Blease is yet to play at AFL level.
2. While I agree Jones' kicking has improved a lot recently it's still not as good as it should be.
3. Bennell will be playing in the back half, not much use listing him as he won't be delivering the ball into the forward line.

As for your last bit about KPP in the draft there are actually quite a few, there's Panos, Talia, Fitzpatrick, Carlisle, Black and Griffiths. One of them is bound to slip down to 18.

 

[RandB]

On paper Trengove is the man of the moment and it would be pretty hard (finishing last) to justify not getting him. Personally I think we couldn't go wrong with picking Trengove no matter who the other candidates are so from that pov he is a logical choice.

However...

My gut feeling is that the club will go for Butcher. Getting Butcher could quite simply revolutionise our forward line especially if he is a solid target who can hold his own. As much as Jurrah is going to be a fantastic player for us he won't get under the radar next year and both he and Watts are built pretty light on. If Butcher can play an anchor role whilst kicking 2 or 3 himself then Watts and Jurah won't have the best defender and may be more potent. Either of them can push further down the ground also if required. I think if Butcher was just any old forward then we would give it a miss as we have an array of options already but the fact is that Butcher is a genuine tall forward with size and that may be the clincher.

 

[Knowitall]

Does look alright but who is going to feed the ball to them? Scully is a decent kick but that's not his strength, Trengove on the other hand is a brilliant kick who would feed the forward line extremely well.

A forward is only as good as the delivery he receives.

Martin's athleticism and speed would allow him to be a very good target up forward, his set shooting isn't too bad either and that would still leave Bate and Jurrah as 3rd and 4th talls so we do have options up forward.

I've got another potential forward line than the other one I mentioned before.

HF: Bate Watts Petterd
F: Wonaeamirri Martin Jurrah​

I think people do tend to exaggerate how "lacking" we are up forward, good delivery can make even the worst forwards look good while poor delivery can make even the best forwards look bad.

Didn't we draft Blease and Strauss to kick into our forward line? Grimes is not going to play down back all his career he will be a midfielder to.

I think Martin will be best used as a backup ruckman as we have option of playing him forward or back when resting him, whatever suits best. What about this situation?

HF: Bate Watts Jurrah
F: Wonaeamirri Butcher Martin
​

Bate and Jurrah are both good at ground level. Martin swaping in the ruck with two potential gun KPP?

As you can probably tell i think Butcher is a must!!!!​

 

[Demon Revival]

There are going to be so many options... What a fantastic position we are going to be in going forward, providing they all stay fit.

My two bobs worth is


HF: Green, Watts, Davey
FF: Wona, Butcher, Jurrah

 

[CM Sean]

There are going to be so many options... What a fantastic position we are going to be in going forward, providing they all stay fit.

My two bobs worth is


HF: Green, Watts, Davey
FF: Wona, Butcher, Jurrah

This This I Like.

Green has to go forward in 2010. He is an excellent set shot in front of goal.

 

[TelkoTheGreat]

will Butcher be able to play straight away or will be need time to develop through the VFL ?

 

[KTLK]

This This I Like.

Green has to go forward in 2010. He is an excellent set shot in front of goal.

I like it too

Also, other option can be:

HF: Sylvia Watts Bate
FF: Jurrah Butcher Wona

Green can play HF and move Sylvia into midfield.

Davey as a rover and Scully as a ruck rover to inject pace in the midfield. Adding Blease there will be awesome

This FF line will put the pressure off Jurrah and Watts. Butcher is easily the best KPP in this draft and is a must

 

[KTLK]

Can anyone please tell me who is the next best midfielder and ruckman at Pick 18?

Is it a midfielder if Butcher at Pick 2?

Is it a ruckman if Butcher at Pick 2?

 

[Surkin]

Can we add a poll to this thread? I would love to see the overall consensus.

I am firmly in the Trengrove camp. I know it is an overused term but "he ticks all the boxes". There is not one area of his game that you can really fault whereas Butcher has a few major faults. His kicking is fairly poor and he is not overly strong.

While others may have doubts about Watts making it I don't have any doubts he will be a star. As others have said the things that all the top sides have in common is that they all have great midfields. A midfield needs to run 8 deep with at least three stars. All the top sides have at least three star midfielders.

St Kilda - Hayes, Dal Santo, Montagna
Geelong - Ablett, Selwood, Bartel
Dogs - Boyd, Cooney, Cross
Pies - Swan, Didak, Pendlebury
Blues - Judd, Murphy, Stevens
Crows - Vince, Thompson, Edwards
Brisbane - Black, Power, Rich

 

[Grandmaster_B]

Looking at the 5 sides who are contending for finals this year... Geelong, St. Kilda, Western Bulldogs, Collingwood, Adelaide... The Bulldogs and Collingwood have smaller forward lines, the Cats have had Mooney and the Tommahawk, neither has been dominant... Only the Saints have two true gun KPP, with the Crows the next best forward line...

All 5 sides have great midfields though...

Jack Trengrove it is...

Bingo.

You can never be a flag contender without an A-Grade midfield.


Scully and Trengove, without doubt.

 

[Knowitall]

I like it too

Also, other option can be:

HF: Sylvia Watts Bate
FF: Jurrah Butcher Wona

Green can play HF and move Sylvia into midfield.

Davey as a rover and Scully as a ruck rover to inject pace in the midfield. Adding Blease there will be awesome

This FF line will put the pressure off Jurrah and Watts. Butcher is easily the best KPP in this draft and is a must

Good to see everyone getting on Butcher

For the 18th pick i think we need a ruckman it would be really good if we got Nathan Vardy from Gippsland Power. But not to sure if he would slip that far????? Could we try and do a deal with the Hawks by getting there first rounder for one of our KPD. Like Rivers or Warnock and pick 34?

 

[Knowitall]

Can we add a poll to this thread? I would love to see the overall consensus.

I am firmly in the Trengrove camp. I know it is an overused term but "he ticks all the boxes". There is not one area of his game that you can really fault whereas Butcher has a few major faults. His kicking is fairly poor and he is not overly strong.

While others may have doubts about Watts making it I don't have any doubts he will be a star. As others have said the things that all the top sides have in common is that they all have great midfields. A midfield needs to run 8 deep with at least three stars. All the top sides have at least three star midfielders.

St Kilda - Hayes, Dal Santo, Montagna
Geelong - Ablett, Selwood, Bartel
Dogs - Boyd, Cooney, Cross
Pies - Swan, Didak, Pendlebury
Blues - Judd, Murphy, Stevens
Crows - Vince, Thompson, Edwards
Brisbane - Black, Power, Rich

Why can't our 3 stars be Sylvia, Grimes & Skully? With Davey, Moloney, Mclean, Jones, Blease & Strauss being our depth players?

 

[CM Sean]

Can we add a poll to this thread? I would love to see the overall consensus.

I am firmly in the Trengrove camp. I know it is an overused term but "he ticks all the boxes". There is not one area of his game that you can really fault whereas Butcher has a few major faults. His kicking is fairly poor and he is not overly strong.

While others may have doubts about Watts making it I don't have any doubts he will be a star. As others have said the things that all the top sides have in common is that they all have great midfields. A midfield needs to run 8 deep with at least three stars. All the top sides have at least three star midfielders.

St Kilda - Hayes, Dal Santo, Montagna
Geelong - Ablett, Selwood, Bartel
Dogs - Boyd, Cooney, Cross
Pies - Swan, Didak, Pendlebury
Blues - Judd, Murphy, Stevens
Crows - Vince, Thompson, Edwards
Brisbane - Black, Power, Rich

You left out the Bombers...

(not that they're a top side or anything, but they are in the 8)

 

[BlueDW]

I reckon it should be put on the table in trade week. Watch them come.

Possibles....Lake, Delidio (if you believe the rumours), McIntosh, Boak.

I dont know if any of these players would be put on the table, but you can bet your sweet arse that clubs will just about sell their soul to get their hands on pick 2 this year.

Would be worth having a look I reckon.

 

[WattsGoodForYou]

Butcher has a few major faults. His kicking is fairly poor and he is not overly strong.

What are you basing this on? Here-say? conjecture? Watching his games? Watching 3 minutes of vision? What some unknown posters say on a message board say?

Major is a strong word. I would say Juice's kicking has major faults. Butchers does not.

People need to realize things such as the grounds they play on are suburban and country grounds, which are often open to windy conditions.

While you say he is not strong, i guess you mean body strength? Which can be improved by gym work. However his contested marking is the key to his game. So if you say he improves his strengths so he can match it with established backmen, his general skill and positioning should then be able to be seen.

Furthermore, one highlight of his game which often goes unmentioned is his speed.

And those who want to say "Oh but JT plays seniors..against men!"...(Correct me if i am wrong) The TAC Cup has the highest number of players drafted from it , from any competition.

If i dominate in the locals does that make me better that dominating the U/18 competition? Who can say as so many other factors can come into play. Older guys, blocking better, giving it to you in better positions, doing their best to get you noticed. While the U/18's may not be that team orientated worrying solely on their own performances,meaning you often need to work harder to get the results.

Butcher has a few tricks to his bag which would benefit any side.
Saying that i do believe he is the best play available at pick 2.

 

[Tulip]

What you have to keep in mind is that Trengove is easily one of the best midfielders in the TAC Cup, potentially better than Scully too. I think he would hugely benefit Melbourne with his kicking skills and he'd probably be the last missing piece of their midfield. What should also be noted is that it's almost certain there will be a good key forward around Melbourne's second round pick. You could probably get someone along the lines of Carlisle, Panos, Griffiths or dare I say, Fitzpatrick.

While I've no doubt that they are fantastic, reading one james Strauss' profile on our OS, he seems as though he's the real deal with kicking.

Presonally I went from Butcher to Trengove but now, all things considered, I'm very firmly on the fence. Whoever BP takes I will be very VERY excited about!!

CANT WAIT FOR 2010

 

[2 Dogs]

Throwing up something that has been discussed, but hasn't got a mention in this thread is the prospect of Garland playing Key Forward.

Green Watts Bate
Wonna Garland Jurrah

I've been firmly in this camp for a while now, as our defence is rock solid with Rivers Warnock and Frawley. Garland has played 2 games forward when he first started, was drafted initially as a forward, now he has the experience I think next year is the time to put him there and see what he can produce.

Add Scully and Trengrove to our midfield and all of a sudden we almost have a Geelong-esque situation where players who would walk into other midfields (Chapman, Enright) are utilized elsewhere around the ground (Sylvia half-foward, Morton/Grimes Half back, Bruce taking a Milburn role) I believe you can never have too many good midfielders, and we would be silly not to take Trengrove at 2.

Of course this is all speculative, and to be honest I'll be satisfied with whoever we pick up as there are more informed people in charge than any of us here on big footy ever will be. We are in an enviable position, lets enjoy the fact that regardless we are going to take a big step forward with the players we get with these picks.

 

[GrandBlue]

The only real first rounder ruckman on the market is Nathan Vardy, but Collingwood will probably get him, the next best is James Craig but there's no way Melbourne would take him with their second rounder.

Just my 2 cents. I reckon Melbourne will take Trengove as he's probably the best kick in the draft and could feed the ball even to rubbish forwards. Butcher, while a gun player with a strong mark, still has his problems involving kicking and injuries. Plus one of the following: Carlisle; Griffiths; Panos; Fitzpatrick or Black will be available around Melb's second rounder.

 

[Andy_Mac]

Trengove may very well be the second best player in the draft, and for what it’s worth I am actually sold on him. He is getting it done in the SAFL seniors.

BUT Melbourne will take Butcher.

I think that the club will take the opportunity now to assure our KPP stocks. Elite KPP’s very very rarely go outside the top 5 where as elite mids are often had anywhere in the top 10. Given the club will not be planning on finish outside the top 10 for the next decade they will take Butcher knowing that we get Scully anyway.

Butcher is averaging 3.33 goals (@ 66.7% accuracy) a game in the TAC against 2 opponents whilst carrying an injury (he’s kicked 9 in his last 2 outings) and he takes big pack marks. That’s not too bad… Added to this his undoubted form last year as a bottom age player where he was the 2nd best KPF behind, the messiah.

Drafting Butcher this would mean that we have the two best key position forwards in their age range. Not too bad when you add a couple of 20 yo; Liam J, Austin Wonna. Added to that a very versatile Mathew Bate, and IMO the best set shot for goal Brad Green whom could play well into his 30’s re: Brad Johnston but as our 6th best forward.

Davey was on track early this year for AA honors, but struggled to break the number one tag. Scully will fix that. Grimes already has champion written all over him, Morton could do anything, Sylvia is looking more and more like a Gary Ablett Jnr clone, Jones is looks far more composed once he has some more quality around him. Mclean and Beamer are tough hard at it types, and we haven’t even seen what Blease and Strauss can do, not to mention a Bastinac or Gysberts type at pick 18 this year.

Mid options:
1. Scully - Both
2. Grimes - Both
3. Sylvia - Both
4. Davey - Outside
5. Morton - Outside
6. Maric - Outside
7. Blease - Outside
8. Strauss - Outside
9. McLean - Inside
10. Moloney - Inside
11. Jones – Inside
12. Valenti - Inside
13. Bastinac/Gysberts (Pick 18)

Pick the best 8 from that list and the 5 others are running around with Casey. IMO I cannot see any way we could fit all of: Jones, Beamer and McLean into our best 22. Rewind 12 months and that was an outrageous statement.

Whereas the forward line heavens forbid Watts was cut down circa David Schwartz our structure is looking way to much like the Western Bulldogs (on offence) we have no other seriously dangerous KPF options. With Scully our midfield will already be looking unstoppable and so deep Trengove would almost be over kill. We lack forward line depth.

 

[Surkin]

Has anyone considered that Cale Morton may be our CHF in the future? He is tall and has good endurance and reasonable speed. Do not rule it out.

 

[ExTasDeeMan]

I'm going to wait for the camp to get excited about butch. key forwards are going to be hugely rare in the next few years, so that would be my pref.

However if butch looks like a walsh or any other failed top forward pick, then buyer beware...

 

[Unleash Hell]

Trengrove for me.

Taking big men high in the draft is risky, lets not forget the Molan debacle, and just look at Josh Fraser. But if BP decides he is worth the risk i'll accept that, but damn we will be kicking ourseleves if we pass up a Simon Black type for a guy with only potential.

And if we take trengrove and he does decide to leave, in theory we should be compensated.

 

[lose]

Has anyone considered that Cale Morton may be our CHF in the future? He is tall and has good endurance and reasonable speed. Do not rule it out.

mate watts is a CHF, not FF... cale will be a great winger/flanker...