Pick 27

[sirlothie]

Why do we need 190cm+ midfielders? I really don't understand this but I come from a different era. Why do inside mids who spend a lot of their time burrowing in for ground ball need to be so tall??

It's out of control, I know of a kid who plays club under 16 junior footy as a 192cm ruckman, but when he got selected for rep footy wanted him to play as a mid!

 

[Knightmare]

As long as we don't pick another midget ... circa sub 180 cm ... I'm not fussed. I'm sure Hine and co will pick a gem


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You'll be glad to hear in the Bigfooty Official Phantom Draft that I selected Kieran Lovell (174cm mid) for Collingwood.

As for my general targets with pick 27. Mitch Hibberd is my best case scenario as a wing/hb with his weapons. Luke Partington and Ryan Clarke as quick, productive mids also greatly appeal to me if there. Kieran Collins as a key defender would be an excellent selection if he slides. Harry Himmelberg as a key forward is worth bidding on with our pick 27.

After these guy, failing none of them sliding. A Jade Gresham or Kieran Lovell as small mids probably are those best leftovers I'm seeing as those next few with the highest probability of an AFL career.

But maybe Collingwood have their guy who they have a higher level of optimism regarding compared to a Gresham or Lovell as I was forced to select in the Bigfooty Official Phantom Draft given the lack of availability of anyone else worthwhile, or at least worthwhile of those expected not to be available at the clubs later selections.

 

[peter9789]

You'll be glad to hear in the Bigfooty Official Phantom Draft that I selected Kieran Lovell (174cm mid) for Collingwood.

As for my general targets with pick 27. Mitch Hibberd is my best case scenario as a wing/hb with his weapons. Luke Partington and Ryan Clarke as quick, productive mids also greatly appeal to me if there. Kieran Collins as a key defender would be an excellent selection if he slides. Harry Himmelberg as a key forward is worth bidding on with our pick 27.

After these guy, failing none of them sliding. A Jade Gresham or Kieran Lovell as small mids probably are those best leftovers I'm seeing as those next few with the highest probability of an AFL career.

But maybe Collingwood have their guy who they have a higher level of optimism regarding compared to a Gresham or Lovell as I was forced to select in the Bigfooty Official Phantom Draft given the lack of availability of anyone else worthwhile, or at least worthwhile of those expected not to be available at the clubs later selections.

Yes KM I did read that with much dismay, but will bow to your vastly superior knowledge and judgement of footballing pedigree.


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[Knightmare]

Yes KM I did read that with much dismay, but will bow to your vastly superior knowledge and judgement of footballing pedigree.


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Lovell through the u18 championships in each game was the leading ball winner. Round 1, nine disposals more than the next highest ball winner. Round 2, four more disposals than the next highest ball winner. Round 3, ten more disposals than the next highest ball winner. And with his acceleration offers a dynamic we lack. While also leading disposals won in each of the three rounds with only Hopper who will go top five equalling him in round 2. Then Lovell for speed, agility and endurance is seriously impressive.

None the less I thoroughly hope that Collingwood come up with someone even better, and like yourself would ideally like someone 180cm+. I'm just at least for the bigfooty official phantom not seeing that guy though, or at least based on those players available.

 

[Likitysplit]

Lovell through the u18 championships in each game was the leading ball winner. Round 1, nine disposals more than the next highest ball winner. Round 2, four more disposals than the next highest ball winner. Round 3, ten more disposals than the next highest ball winner. And with his acceleration offers a dynamic we lack. While also leading disposals won in each of the three rounds with only Hopper who will go top five equalling him in round 2. Then Lovell for speed, agility and endurance is seriously impressive.

None the less I thoroughly hope that Collingwood come up with someone even better, and like yourself would ideally like someone 180cm+. I'm just at least for the bigfooty official phantom not seeing that guy though, or at least based on those players available.

So what are some of the reasons he's not a top 30 pick? He knows how to find the pill, are his disposals just not that damaging / effective?

What are the differences between Lovell and Darcy Parish? Just out of interest as I know Darcy is considered the best mid in this draft. (I know I'll probably get shot down but I'm just interested at what recruiters and yourself look for, becuse your description of Lovell sounds like he's a brilliant player).

 

[Knightmare]

So what are some of the reasons he's not a top 30 pick? He knows how to find the pill, are his disposals just not that damaging / effective?

What are the differences between Lovell and Darcy Parish? Just out of interest as I know Darcy is considered the best mid in this draft. (I know I'll probably get shot down but I'm just interested at what recruiters and yourself look for, becuse your description of Lovell sounds like he's a brilliant player).

Being sub 180cm mostly. If Lovell was 184cm and not 174cm he'd be a top five selection.

In terms of my views of Lovell's weaknesses. Lovell's efficiency is good and the more I've seen him the more comfortable I've been with his ball use but I have found he has shanked a few balls this year and missed some targets I'd expect a league footballer to hit and that's one criticism I have. Otherwise I wouldn't describe Lovell as a forward as someone who feels better suited to playing through the midfield, which will be that other element that will work against him with few particularly good small midfielders in the competition. Then as a sub 175cm mid, he most probably will remain much as he is today as he is already very well developed as a strong 80kg small midfielder and has a very advanced ball winning game by any measure.

As for the differences between Lovell and Parish. Parish is the better skilled and more versatile of the two (can play midfield and flanks) with his relative point of difference being his work by foot. As for Lovell, his production is stronger, inside game stronger and has a lot more speed, agility and endurance with substantially greater ability to apply it in game.

My hope with Lovell is that he can evolve from midfielder into more a half forward/midfield as we've seen of Cory Gregson this year.

But from a Collingwood context. Lovell is something like an even quicker and more agile Kennedy with greater ability to use that in game and with greater ability again to find the footy with as much inside game and more ability to find the uncontested footy to go with it.

On season one impact if you're a Dreamteam player. Lovell if he plays would be very near if not the top year one performer. So he is no scrub. The performances are there, but just as a 174cm mid it's hard to see him starring. Then again his dimensions are similar to Lachie Neale so who knows.

 

[Ricky90]

So, having done a little bit of research, I've come up with this:

Gone by our first pick will almost definitely be these players (including academy kids not available to us):

Weitering, Schache, Hopper, Mills, Kennedy, Keays, Francis, Parish, Weideman, Curnow, Oliver, Mathieson, Milera, Hipwood, H. McKay, Ah Chee, Tucker and Burton.

That's 18 names (five academy names), all gone before our first pick leaving another 13 guys before we get to our selection.

Possible candidates for the next selections are:

Hibberd, Partington, Clarke, Himmelberg, B. McKay, Balic, Gresham, Lovell, Ferreira, Snelling, Answerth, Rioli, Kerbatieh, Hardwick and Bonner.

There's 15 names, all likely to go in the next 20-30 picks.

Himmelberg is very likely going to GWS, unless someone bids something outrageous for him. McKay or Balic would be my ideal scenario but failing that Hibberd, Gresham, Rioli would be nice.

I think at 27 we'll get someone worthwhile. It's just going to depend on who's left to select. I think we can all agree though that our needs are a tall forward and a small forward. Would definitely like some outside pace too.

 

[DaVe86]

Youve sold me on lovell.

He would be our puopolo type player...and an upgrade on blair i reckon.

Seems to be an upgrade on kennedy as well.

Theres not much else exciting me at our pick tbh and lovell would be a pretty solid pick

 

[DoubleDraw7710]

It's good to see apart-height is back (The Goodies South Africa episode). Now if I could only get rid of my 15 yo daughter's (174cm) 16 yo boyfriend (163cm).

 

[Apex36]

Top 30 are Normally Solid but outside of that it when Good Recruiters Show Themselves

Not neccessarily. Cal Twomey had Goddard as top 10 last year. Don't trust phantoms as gospel, especially this far out from the draft.

 

[Likitysplit]

Being sub 180cm mostly. If Lovell was 184cm and not 174cm he'd be a top five selection.

In terms of my views of Lovell's weaknesses. Lovell's efficiency is good and the more I've seen him the more comfortable I've been with his ball use but I have found he has shanked a few balls this year and missed some targets I'd expect a league footballer to hit and that's one criticism I have. Otherwise I wouldn't describe Lovell as a forward as someone who feels better suited to playing through the midfield, which will be that other element that will work against him with few particularly good small midfielders in the competition. Then as a sub 175cm mid, he most probably will remain much as he is today as he is already very well developed as a strong 80kg small midfielder and has a very advanced ball winning game by any measure.

As for the differences between Lovell and Parish. Parish is the better skilled and more versatile of the two (can play midfield and flanks) with his relative point of difference being his work by foot. As for Lovell, his production is stronger, inside game stronger and has a lot more speed, agility and endurance with substantially greater ability to apply it in game.

My hope with Lovell is that he can evolve from midfielder into more a half forward/midfield as we've seen of Cory Gregson this year.

But from a Collingwood context. Lovell is something like an even quicker and more agile Kennedy with greater ability to use that in game and with greater ability again to find the footy with as much inside game and more ability to find the uncontested footy to go with it.

On season one impact if you're a Dreamteam player. Lovell if he plays would be very near if not the top year one performer. So he is no scrub. The performances are there, but just as a 174cm mid it's hard to see him starring. Then again his dimensions are similar to Lachie Neale so who knows.

Thanks for that, that's exactly the explanation I was after. It will be interesting to see who collingwood actually selects or more importantly who is still available. Can't wait to hear your thoughts after the draft!

 

[Likitysplit]

Ps Knightmare

I really like the look of Himmelberg, I'm kind of suprised he should be around the mark. Realistically what are the chances GWS don't bid on him/he actually falls that low in the draft?

 

[TradeDraft]

 

[76woodenspooners]

What about Sub-175cm's? I can not think of many Below 175cm then been good. Can only think of Boomer and Blairy

Tony Shaw, Ray Shaw, Ronnie Wearmouth ...

 

[TradeDraft]

Not neccessarily. Cal Twomey had Goddard as top 10 last year. Don't trust phantoms as gospel, especially this far out from the draft.

Agree - Lot can still happen. Phantom's can only be really paid Attention to are the ones that comes out day or 2 before the Draft

 

[TradeDraft]

Tony Shaw, Ray Shaw, Ronnie Wearmouth ...

Way Different Era then. Can't Compare it at all

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

Tony Shaw, Ray Shaw, Ronnie Wearmouth ...

Basically if the Collingwood Big Footy board was drafting in years gone by they would pass up on Sam Mitchell, Boomer Harvey, Greg Williams, Daniel Kerr, Tony Shaw, Steven Milne, John Platten, Eddie Betts, Dale Weightman and a host of other players in the same vein because of our strict no sub 180cm policy.

 

[Bard]

We have a pretty good sized midfield now compared to recent years with the addition of Crisp/De Goey (who will probably hit near 189/190cm) and Greenwood/treloar are both in that mid 180s I believe. Can probably afford one more midget with Thomas our only sub 180cm midfielder.

 

[boxy99]

We have a pretty good sized midfield now compared to recent years with the addition of Crisp/De Goey (who will probably hit near 189/190cm) and Greenwood/treloar are both in that mid 180s I believe. Can probably afford one more midget with Thomas our only sub 180cm midfielder.

Treloar is only 182 and greenwood is only 181

 

[TradeDraft]

Basically if the Collingwood Big Footy board was drafting in years gone by they would pass up on Sam Mitchell, Boomer Harvey, Greg Williams, Daniel Kerr, Tony Shaw, Steven Milne, John Platten, Eddie Betts, Dale Weightman and a host of other players in the same vein because of our strict no sub 180cm policy.

But how many where Drafted and did NOT make it?

 

[Knightmare]

Youve sold me on lovell.

He would be our puopolo type player...and an upgrade on blair i reckon.

Seems to be an upgrade on kennedy as well.

Theres not much else exciting me at our pick tbh and lovell would be a pretty solid pick

This is my bio for Lovell fyi:

Kieran Lovell (TAS – MID)
Height: 174cm, Weight: 80kg, DOB: 16/05/1997
Recruited from: Kingston Tigers
Reminds me of: Cory Gregson
Brief bio: Lovell is a high production, extremely athletic small midfielder with rare agility and excellent pace and endurance. Lovell will regularly burst out of traffic and run around guys easily as if they’re stationary and look to take on the game with his pace. Lovell finds high disposal numbers through the midfield and has a nice balance between contested and uncontested ball winning numbers, with his contested ball winning numbers particularly excellent, with his strong body for his age helping with this. Lovell as a ball user is generally clean but has also at times shown that he can shank some balls by foot for some awful turnovers. From a versatility standpoint I am not convinced that Lovell while he could play forward, would necessarily be as effective as he is through the midfield, as he doesn’t quite for me have that front half talent where he could offer heavy scoreboard impact or provide any particularly meaningful offense. Additionally from a tackling and pressuring standpoint while it’s something Lovell can do, it is not something he does as well as other smalls with his quickness.

Regarding Lovell as a small forward. It's not something he has had much of a chance to do. He has the cleanness and quickness at ground level so it's plausible. But until he proves he can play forward he is more a midfielder who you hope can learn to play forward to compliment his midfield play. I'm not sure whether he'll have the pressure game to be our Puopolo equivalent or a Blair replacement. But maybe a Cory Gregson as more a half forward/midfielder would be more an outcome that feels more like something he could do.

Ps Knightmare

I really like the look of Himmelberg, I'm kind of suprised he should be around the mark. Realistically what are the chances GWS don't bid on him/he actually falls that low in the draft?

Himmelberg is an overager. So that makes his value more 20s rather than 10s. GWS almost certainly would match our pick 27, and may well get a higher bid than that anyway. Always worth a shot though as you never quite know.

 

[Bay Pie]

There are many small forwards that have made it big in the AFL and recently, that didn't go all that early in the draft. No need to reach for a small Forward at 27 if better players are available.

Betts, Milne to name a couple and Garlett, Cameron, Breust, Walters and many more have all been picked up late in the draft or even rookie picks.

We'd actually love a Brad Dick clone but without those fragile joints. He had a lot of talent, just not the body for AFL footy.

 

[Stoods]

On Paige's phantom draft she has us taking Nicholas O'Kearney at pick 34 (had rioli going to wce at 30)

Height: 180cm, Weight: 71kg, DOB: 13/02/1997
Recruited from: Calder Cannons
Draft Range: 20-40

An unassuming, competitive ball magnet who does the small things well. Doesn’t have a swag of tricks that give him the ‘wow’ factors others have, but looms as a 200-game player given his discipline, work ethic, leadership, professionalism and finesse. Is one of the draft’s most balanced kicks, rating elite on both sides of his body and winning the goal-kicking test with a perfect score, and following it up with a top-10 showing in the kicking test at the combine. Bobs up effortlessly at the clearances, has clean and quick hands, and is rarely caught with the ball. Tackles hard, and plays tougher than he looks. Lock him in as a future AFL Captain one day; he’s a player’s player.

Yay or nay?

 

[Knightmare]

On Paige's phantom draft she has us taking Nicholas O'Kearney at pick 34 (had rioli going to wce at 30)

Height: 180cm, Weight: 71kg, DOB: 13/02/1997
Recruited from: Calder Cannons
Draft Range: 20-40

An unassuming, competitive ball magnet who does the small things well. Doesn’t have a swag of tricks that give him the ‘wow’ factors others have, but looms as a 200-game player given his discipline, work ethic, leadership, professionalism and finesse. Is one of the draft’s most balanced kicks, rating elite on both sides of his body and winning the goal-kicking test with a perfect score, and following it up with a top-10 showing in the kicking test at the combine. Bobs up effortlessly at the clearances, has clean and quick hands, and is rarely caught with the ball. Tackles hard, and plays tougher than he looks. Lock him in as a future AFL Captain one day; he’s a player’s player.

Yay or nay?

If you're asking me I don't feel O'Kearney makes the grade and I don't rate him inside my top 50 power rankings.

O'Kearney is productive in the TAC Cup but I'm struggling to find a point of difference. Not a dominant contested ball winner. Not an athlete. Not a damaging or even above average kick. You can work as hard as you want to, but you need a point of difference to have an impact at the next level and O'Kearney doesn't have that.

It's a really rosey profile and I can't with O'Kearney share Paige's view and optimism as to his scope to develop.

 

[Ketchup]

On Paige's phantom draft she has us taking Nicholas O'Kearney at pick 34 (had rioli going to wce at 30)

Height: 180cm, Weight: 71kg, DOB: 13/02/1997
Recruited from: Calder Cannons
Draft Range: 20-40

An unassuming, competitive ball magnet who does the small things well. Doesn’t have a swag of tricks that give him the ‘wow’ factors others have, but looms as a 200-game player given his discipline, work ethic, leadership, professionalism and finesse. Is one of the draft’s most balanced kicks, rating elite on both sides of his body and winning the goal-kicking test with a perfect score, and following it up with a top-10 showing in the kicking test at the combine. Bobs up effortlessly at the clearances, has clean and quick hands, and is rarely caught with the ball. Tackles hard, and plays tougher than he looks. Lock him in as a future AFL Captain one day; he’s a player’s player.

Yay or nay?

And so it begins