Pick 5

[Zvim]

Drew couldn't kick once upon a time.

56% accuracy just from scoring shots isn't all that fantastic though. People were bagging the shit out of Harding years ago when his was in the 70s. Dish is just teflon stuff here because he is a great bloke.

And it has taken Dish 10 years to get to this stage. You want Dish 2?

 

[__aria__]

yea dumb post dude

his kicking is certainly no worse than guys like franklin, riewoldt, petrie and most other afl forwards

i like it how on bigfooty if u want 1 guy in the draft u have to bag out the other guys even when they are absolute guns

 

[bellzy]

You want Dish 2?

Is that a serious question?

 

[Flawed Genius]

Martin. If not Martin, Cunnington.

 

[Zvim]

Is that a serious question?

Yes, I am serious would you pass a mid with terrific skills for someone like a Petrie. Ie, would you choose a Buckley or Voss over a Petrie?

Martin could be as good as that. Coach for Falcons claims Scully, Cunnington and Rohan are as good as the other Geelong boys he has coached.

Would you seriously pass a potential like that for someone who in 10 odd years might be as handy as Petrie?

 

[__aria__]

butcher >>>>>> petrie

 

[bellzy]

Yes, I am serious would you pass a mid with terrific skills for someone like a Petrie. Ie, would you choose a Buckley or Voss over a Petrie?

Martin could be as good as that. Coach for Falcons claims Scully, Cunnington and Rohan are as good as the other Geelong boys he has coached.

Would you seriously pass a potential like that for someone who in 10 odd years might be as handy as Petrie?

If Martin were available (which from what I've read and seen of his draft camp results, is highly unlikely anymore), I'd take him in a heartbeat.

The same goes for any one of the probable top four of Morabito/Trengove/Scully.

Saying that, if it were Butcher vs Cunnington/Rohan with pick 5, I'd take Butcher. We lack a contested mark in the forward line when Drew isn't there. Azza takes plenty of marks, but generally on the wing where he can't contest the ball in the forward line. Imagine having the contested marking ability of Drew + Azza + Butcher all in one functioning forward line. Add to that Campbell and Thomas, possibly Ross as well, and suddenly we have a very, very potent forward line.

 

[Groggyk]

Nah Bellzy, it's all about the midfield man.

Just ask Rocket Eade.

 

[r004life]

Would much rather cunnington than butcher.
Regardless of butchers disposal and skill, the major problem with the kid is his attitude. I know ppl close to him, they all say he has dominated at younger levels because he is a natural athlete, but he is a very risky prospect because he has never had to work to get to where he is and is very lazy. Thus wont take the next step into AFL because it's all "just too hard".

Scott wants our club to reach for the stars and be the best we can by getting the most out of our players (which i love), this isn't john butcher and thus hopefully wont be part of our great club.

 

[bellzy]

I know ppl close to him, they all say he has dominated at younger levels because he is a natural athlete, but he is a very risky prospect because he has never had to work to get to where he is and is very lazy. T

I'm no doctor or anything, but I would have thought that anybody in first round contention that's "never had to work", could only go up from there.

Sounds promising.

 

[hilly]

I'm no doctor or anything, but I would have thought that anybody in first round contention that's "never had to work", could only go up from there.

Sounds promising.

Shane Harvey and Damian Cupido are proof of that.

 

[Groggyk]

i like it how on bigfooty if u want 1 guy in the draft u have to bag out the other guys even when they are absolute guns

Nail. Head. Hammer.

People who think Butcher will be a hack haven't got much idea really.

 

[Zvim]

If Martin were available (which from what I've read and seen of his draft camp results, is highly unlikely anymore), I'd take him in a heartbeat.

The same goes for any one of the probable top four of Morabito/Trengove/Scully.

I would expect Melbourne to pick Scully and Trengove and Fremantle to take Morabito. The only club with worse key forward stock than us is Richmond so they are a chance to take Butcher. Not a big chance but a chance. I'd hope we are an outside chance to see Martin at 5, very outside but possible.

Saying that, if it were Butcher vs Cunnington/Rohan with pick 5, I'd take Butcher. We lack a contested mark in the forward line when Drew isn't there. Azza takes plenty of marks, but generally on the wing where he can't contest the ball in the forward line. Imagine having the contested marking ability of Drew + Azza + Butcher all in one functioning forward line. Add to that Campbell and Thomas, possibly Ross as well, and suddenly we have a very, very potent forward line.

The club said that they made a mistake with Hale and Petrie and that Petrie should have been our permanent full forward and Hale our number two ruckman. Assuming that scenario is corrected next year and assume Tarrant doesn't have any more injury issues with Josh Smith also around and Hansen a possibility up forward do you think we are totally devoid of forward options?

I thought Smith started to show something across half forward late in the season, Butcher might be a better option than him but is he sinking a pick 5 on him kind of better option? I dunno.

Having a Cunnington or Rohan plus pushing Smith's development might be worth it.

If we don't get a top class midfield delivering the ball forward we could have Reiwoldt and Brown down there and it wouldn't make a big difference, our supply is what has been hurting us, our number of quality inside 50s is just way off the mark.

 

[RUNVS]

There has been talk of Butcher falling in the draft (and i can see it is being discussed here as well). I was wondering if Butcher was available at pick 5 do you think you're team will pick him or will they go for a midfielder?

I was just wondering as i'm sort of hoping he falls to the Swans pick (even though he looks like a risky pick) but i don't really know what North Melbourne want/need in the national draft.

 

[__aria__]

The club said that they made a mistake with Hale and Petrie and that Petrie should have been our permanent full forward and Hale our number two ruckman.

done with the butcher discussion but have u heard of a guy named t goldstein?

hale in the ruck? surely not

 

[Rippednew1]

I would expect Melbourne to pick Scully and Trengove and Fremantle to take Morabito. The only club with worse key forward stock than us is Richmond so they are a chance to take Butcher. Not a big chance but a chance. I'd hope we are an outside chance to see Martin at 5, very outside but possible.



The club said that they made a mistake with Hale and Petrie and that Petrie should have been our permanent full forward and Hale our number two ruckman. Assuming that scenario is corrected next year and assume Tarrant doesn't have any more injury issues with Josh Smith also around and Hansen a possibility up forward do you think we are totally devoid of forward options?

I thought Smith started to show something across half forward late in the season, Butcher might be a better option than him but is he sinking a pick 5 on him kind of better option? I dunno.

Having a Cunnington or Rohan plus pushing Smith's development might be worth it.

If we don't get a top class midfield delivering the ball forward we could have Reiwoldt and Brown down there and it wouldn't make a big difference, our supply is what has been hurting us, our number of quality inside 50s is just way off the mark.

You honestly think Josh Smith will become a gun forward?
Building 10 years of forward line shouldnt come down to whether Josh Smith showed a bit or a meek CHB will be an option.

Get this guy at pick 21

Aaron Black (Peel Thunder, WA)
Height: 193cm, Weight: 78kg, DOB: 29/11/90
Recruited from: Kingsley
Athletic key forward whose excellent hands are a feature. Agility and awareness are also strengths. Western Australia U18 representative in 2009.

 

[Zvim]

Nail. Head. Hammer.

People who think Butcher will be a hack haven't got much idea really.

It is not about being a hack, not a lot of top 10 draft picks turn into hacks, some just don't reach lofty standards.

My issue is not if he is a reasonable prospect but if he is appropriate prospect for pick 5.

It is the Jack Reiwoldt principal, we knew he was an amazing ball magnet as a forward, could run, mark, everything other than kick reliably well. That was enough to knock him down from a top 5 pick to pick 13. Should we have gone for him instead of Hansen at pick 3? Reiwoldt showed more forward prowess than Hansen did.

Hansen was just a much better prospect at number 3. Jury is still out if he will make the better player or not.

My issue isn't Butcher, but with the doubts about his ability to kick as a forward I can't say he is pick 5 worthy, probably down a bit further. He may turn out okay but it is a much bigger risk than taking a skilled midfielder, an area we have more talent depth issues.

 

[bellzy]

I thought Smith started to show something across half forward late in the season, Butcher might be a better option than him but is he sinking a pick 5 on him kind of better option? I dunno.

Let's be realistic. Smith will never become a star. I'd be suprised if he ever played 100 games in his AFL career.

Butcher however, has all the tools. Kicking can be fixed. Midfielders can be found anywhere in the draft. There realistically isn't all that much separating a top 10 and top 20 mid. However this draft seems to show that there is a lot seperating Butcher to the next best forward options.

 

[AGC]

Let's be realistic. Smith will never become a star. I'd be suprised if he ever played 100 games in his AFL career.

Butcher however, has all the tools. Kicking can be fixed. Midfielders can be found anywhere in the draft. There realistically isn't all that much separating a top 10 and top 20 mid. However this draft seems to show that there is a lot seperating Butcher to the next best forward options.

Exactly.

It is not about being a hack, not a lot of top 10 draft picks turn into hacks, some just don't reach lofty standards.

My issue is not if he is a reasonable prospect but if he is appropriate prospect for pick 5.

It is the Jack Reiwoldt principal, we knew he was an amazing ball magnet as a forward, could run, mark, everything other than kick reliably well. That was enough to knock him down from a top 5 pick to pick 13. Should we have gone for him instead of Hansen at pick 3? Reiwoldt showed more forward prowess than Hansen did.

Hansen was just a much better prospect at number 3. Jury is still out if he will make the better player or not.

My issue isn't Butcher, but with the doubts about his ability to kick as a forward I can't say he is pick 5 worthy, probably down a bit further. He may turn out okay but it is a much bigger risk than taking a skilled midfielder, an area we have more talent depth issues.

Honestly, it's not like the bloke kicks like Simmo. His kicking deficiency is very much overstated, as people search for a flaw in his game. He does shank a few kicks and will never be a John Anthony-esque kick, but he does have a fairly successful conversion rate. 30 goals 19 isn't horrible in a TAC Cup season. What I find promising is the fact that in 11 matches, he's having 49 scoring shots and averaging almost 3 goals a game from an injury interrupted pre-season, in a team that besides Koby Stevens, doesn't have any first round midfielders.
Another positive is that Butcher is quick. Gone are the days where if forwards don't take a mark, they can let their defenders run off them. If we get Butcher and IF (big IF) Tarrant can get his body right- then we'll have 2 forwards sub 3seconds for the 20m sprint (i.e. quicker than Ziebell) which will lessen the effect of "going too tall in the forward line"

 

[__aria__]

yeh good point AGC

butch is very quick and loves laying a bone crunching tackle

i would rather martin or cunnington but a lot of people are being a bit ridiculous about poor old butcher

 

[Flawed Genius]

There has been talk of Butcher falling in the draft (and i can see it is being discussed here as well). I was wondering if Butcher was available at pick 5 do you think you're team will pick him or will they go for a midfielder?

I was just wondering as i'm sort of hoping he falls to the Swans pick (even though he looks like a risky pick) but i don't really know what North Melbourne want/need in the national draft.

I suppose it's currently being debated in this thread. Obviously pinning our hopes on Hale as a forward has failed to a point, and our somewhat surplus of big men might mean we select another midfielder - plenty of touted guns in the top 10.

Or, due to delistings, or trades, or anything else happening during trade week, we decide we need a KPF. So we pick Butcher, if he's still there. But I've seen threads on BF posing questions like "What if Butcher falls to pick 21" or some ridiculously low number.

 

[Zvim]

You honestly think Josh Smith will become a gun forward?

Gun? Unlikely. But I wouldn't have called Longmire a gun forward either, nor Crocker, not Sholl or the Fridge. Pagan just got the most he could out of them.

I think if we have good supply out of the middle then we can get Petrie, Tarrant, Smith and Edwards to take marks. Warren and Hansen are more the hit up guys. We have good smalls in Campbell, Thomas, Havey for a few years, Adams, Garlett, Ross and Wright.

Seriously, when you think about it Geelong won a flag this year on the back of Mooney (46 goals) and Tommahawk (34 goals) as their two key forwards. Why? Because their midfield and defence was top class. Geelong play to their strengths.

We go in and bang it long like we have Carey down there. We don't.

If we make big strides in improving our midfield then I think we have a lot to work with up forward and have enough talent there to see us through the GC/WS period where they will target a lot of the talls.

 

[Zvim]

Exactly.



Honestly, it's not like the bloke kicks like Simmo. His kicking deficiency is very much overstated, as people search for a flaw in his game. He does shank a few kicks and will never be a John Anthony-esque kick, but he does have a fairly successful conversion rate. 30 goals 19 isn't horrible in a TAC Cup season. What I find promising is the fact that in 11 matches, he's having 49 scoring shots and averaging almost 3 goals a game from an injury interrupted pre-season, in a team that besides Koby Stevens, doesn't have any first round midfielders.
Another positive is that Butcher is quick. Gone are the days where if forwards don't take a mark, they can let their defenders run off them. If we get Butcher and IF (big IF) Tarrant can get his body right- then we'll have 2 forwards sub 3seconds for the 20m sprint (i.e. quicker than Ziebell) which will lessen the effect of "going too tall in the forward line"

You make some valid points but I am just not convinced his is pick 5 quality. If we had pick 8 or 9 it would have been an easier decision because the top class mids would have been gone by then. I just hope Melbourne or Richmond take him and we aren't left with the dilemma.

 

[Rippednew1]

Gun? Unlikely. But I wouldn't have called Longmire a gun forward either, nor Crocker, not Sholl or the Fridge. Pagan just got the most he could out of them.

I think if we have good supply out of the middle then we can get Petrie, Tarrant, Smith and Edwards to take marks. Warren and Hansen are more the hit up guys. We have good smalls in Campbell, Thomas, Havey for a few years, Adams, Garlett, Ross and Wright.

Seriously, when you think about it Geelong won a flag this year on the back of Mooney (46 goals) and Tommahawk (34 goals) as their two key forwards. Why? Because their midfield and defence was top class. Geelong play to their strengths.

We go in and bang it long like we have Carey down there. We don't.

If we make big strides in improving our midfield then I think we have a lot to work with up forward and have enough talent there to see us through the GC/WS period where they will target a lot of the talls.

Edwards has potential and thats about all, Hansen is a deer in the headlights, Smith slow of body and mind, Tarrant injury riddled, Hale too weak, Petrie the best of the lot but still misses goals and is ageing. The smalls all have issues including the ageing Harvey and to call them all good is a stretch.

Are you hoping for a key forward with pick 21 or 25 or have you settled with what weve got to build a premiership worthy side on the back of 2 or 3 A-B grade midfielders?

 

[Zvim]

Edwards has potential and thats about all, Hansen is a deer in the headlights, Smith slow of body and mind, Tarrant injury riddled, Hale too weak, Petrie the best of the lot but still misses goals and is ageing. The smalls all have issues including the ageing Harvey and to call them all good is a stretch.

Are you hoping for a key forward with pick 21 or 25 or have you settled with what weve got to build a premiership worthy side on the back of 2 or 3 A-B grade midfielders?

I struggle to see the consistency in your logic where you don't rate Hansen but rate Butcher. Butcher is like a Hansen mini-me, one that doesn't quite kick as well.

Hansen competed well against Reiwoldt, was one of our best defenders before getting injured. He has gone forward and kicked goals, kicked big goals at crunch times. He just lacks the body and confidence to impose himself atm.