Pick 5

[Groggyk]

It is not about being a hack, not a lot of top 10 draft picks turn into hacks, some just don't reach lofty standards.

My issue is not if he is a reasonable prospect but if he is appropriate prospect for pick 5.

It is the Jack Reiwoldt principal, we knew he was an amazing ball magnet as a forward, could run, mark, everything other than kick reliably well. That was enough to knock him down from a top 5 pick to pick 13. Should we have gone for him instead of Hansen at pick 3? Reiwoldt showed more forward prowess than Hansen did.

Hansen was just a much better prospect at number 3. Jury is still out if he will make the better player or not.

My issue isn't Butcher, but with the doubts about his ability to kick as a forward I can't say he is pick 5 worthy, probably down a bit further. He may turn out okay but it is a much bigger risk than taking a skilled midfielder, an area we have more talent depth issues.

Understand where you are coming from completly, but the main concern I have is that a very average year from our midfield has masked the even bigger deficiencies we have in attack. Apart from the proven Petrie, the big man fwds are a mess.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=635670

The, other thing that worries me with the Gold Coast loading up on all the junior talent for the next few years or whatever,, the likelihood of grabbing a possible young gun KPF is **** all.

 

[Rippednew1]

I struggle to see the consistency in your logic where you don't rate Hansen but rate Butcher. Butcher is like a Hansen mini-me, one that doesn't quite kick as well.

Hansen competed well against Reiwoldt, was one of our best defenders before getting injured. He has gone forward and kicked goals, kicked big goals at crunch times. He just lacks the body and confidence to impose himself atm.

Where did i rate Butcher? Nowhere.

Butcher is a forward. Hansen a defender.

Do you think we should be selecting a key forward at all in this draft?

That was the question.

 

[Zvim]

Understand where you are coming from completly, but the main concern I have is that a very average year from our midfield has masked the even bigger deficiencies we have in attack. Apart from the proven Petrie, the big man fwds are a mess.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=635670

The, other thing that worries me with the Gold Coast loading up on all the junior talent for the next few years or whatever,, the likelihood of grabbing a possible young gun KPF is **** all.

IF Petrie, Tarrant and Smith come good and are playing great footy for the next 5 years then we wont be needing another KP forward for long after the GC and WS have established their sides.

Realistically, we only need two KP forwards if we play Edwards and Warren up forward with two small forwards.

If we can't get two of Petrie, Tarrant, Hansen, Smith and Wundke to kick a couple of goals a game on average when the supply is good then we should just pack up and go home. It really isn't that difficult. If Mooney can do it then anyone can.

The key is to have plenty of the ball, plenty of run, plenty of quality inside 50s. I don't know if that is going to happen in 2010. I don't know if we will have enough quality there to get the job done. If we don't score two good mids this year then it will be difficult.

I'd love to get both Butcher and a top class mid but we don't have the picks.

 

[AGC]

IF Petrie, Tarrant and Smith come good and are playing great footy for the next 5 years then we wont be needing another KP forward for long after the GC and WS have established their sides.

Realistically, we only need two KP forwards if we play Edwards and Warren up forward with two small forwards.

If we can't get two of Petrie, Tarrant, Hansen, Smith and Wundke to kick a couple of goals a game on average when the supply is good then we should just pack up and go home. It really isn't that difficult. If Mooney can do it then anyone can.

The key is to have plenty of the ball, plenty of run, plenty of quality inside 50s. I don't know if that is going to happen in 2010. I don't know if we will have enough quality there to get the job done. If we don't score two good mids this year then it will be difficult.

I'd love to get both Butcher and a top class mid but we don't have the picks.

I think people tend to underrate Mooney a fair bit. The guy is a tool shed, agreed, but it's not like he is devoid of talent. I just think it's going to be very difficult for us to form a midfield with the depth and class of Geelong's that's going to allow our midfield to operate to the level that it can make "guys like Mooney" look like superstars.

Wundke and Josh Smith are long shots, as is Nathan O'Keefe, and I think realistically with Gibson going, Hansen really is a defender. That pretty much leaves us with Petrie and Tarrant. A 26/27 year old, and a guy who hasn't played any matches due to persistent shoulder issues. I really do think Tarrant will come good, but we're putting a lot of eggs in that basket.

The gap between Butcher and the next best forward is vast. However, if North, however for picks 21 and 25 (given the Gibbo trade) we can get 2 midfielders, say Harwood and Bastinac that could EASILY be top 10 midfielders. The gap between the midfielders isn't as vast. The gap between the forwards is.
I don't believe in the whole "we're developing so let's just be happy with a decent result" ideal, because it's a self-fulfilling prophesy that only leads to crappy Richmond-esque performances. However, I do believe at this stage that we need to look at long term development. Get the big blokes assured, and add some depth to the midfield, which is what we'd surely do with picks 21, 25, 38 and 41, and then in the upcoming drafts use our first rounders for the best midfielders available.

 

[Zvim]

Do you think we should be selecting a key forward at all in this draft?

Should? I don't know.

It depends on if you recruit based on best available or if you factor need into the equation.

Other than Butcher I am not sure if I would pick anyone else, Smith or Wundke are probably better options than anyone else.

Think of the draft as a restaurant and you have $50 and you are not getting any change. Are you going to order the lobster or the steak?

Butcher might be a great steak but at 5 I think the other boys around that mark are more valuable. Butcher has a premium on his head because there aren't really that many good KPP options. That makes him valuable THIS year, not in the grand scheme of things if next year or the year after there are quite a few young talls that you can get in the 2nd or 3rd round, guys like Collingwood's Anthony, Dawes, etc.

It is just not a good year to chase KPP unless you absolutely have to. I don't think we are in a position where we MUST.

If I had the option of Jack Reiwoldt or Butcher I would go for Reiwoldt and Jack went 13. Butcher is a good mark and athletic but Reiwoldt is a sensation mark, both have some kicking technique issues but the really bad periods of poor kicking is psychological. The technique has made them more susceptible to it, especially under pressure. Much like Richo, his technique is not great so when under pressure he goes to crap but his overall average is okay.

Nobody cares if you score goals against Fremantle though, if you come up to big games and miss sodas then it is bad for the team. I rather have a guy who wont get it as much but will nail the goals than have to rely on someone like Franklin who will kick 5.13, because if you can't supply 18 scoring opportunities you are hosed.

 

[Benno_900]

Dish is just teflon stuff here because he is a great bloke.

Check back over the 2004-2006 posts.

 

[__aria__]

lol @ jack riewoldt over butcher

 

[hurricane]

The club said that they made a mistake with Hale and Petrie and that Petrie should have been our permanent full forward and Hale our number two ruckman.

When/where did they actually say this?

 

[Zvim]

When/where did they actually say this?

JB talked about it on MMM, the last few rounds I believe. They were talking about possible trades, best positions, the future.

I think Dunstall or BT brought up the fact they thought we should have played Petrie at FF all season.

 

[Zvim]

Check back over the 2004-2006 posts.

Check the voting on this board this year early in the year when he wasn't doing much and missing sodas up forward. He was polling votes here.

It was fashionable to be critical of him on BF back then.

 

[shinboner magic]

Trade hale and thomas to port for pick 9 that they get from the dawks for shaun b.
Then we can pick up butcher at 9.

Its a midfielders game now.
Its been proven by the bulldogs that you can win with a strong midfield and no KP forward.The blues had for many years a KP forward but they struggled till they boosted their mids.

I think its quite simple in the end.

 

[CrazyQ]

WTF have the Bulldogs won exactly?

**** all is my answer, yours?

 

[Son_of_Shagga]

Tigers lock on Dustin Martin

RICHMOND is poised to partner midfield gem Trent Cotchin with another outstanding onballer from next month's draft.


Clean-skilled midfielder Dustin Martin has firmed as the Tigers' target after testing brilliantly at the AFL Draft Camp in Canberra this week....

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/tigers-lock-on-dustin-martin/story-e6frf9jf-1225782480791

 

[Flawed Genius]

Cunnington?

 

[__aria__]

no surprise there but you have got to feel for the poor kid

****ington come on down

 

[Son_of_Shagga]

if what the falcons coach says about him comparing him to bartel and hodge, i wouldn't have a problem with his name being read out at pick 5

 

[Long Live the King]

having a look on youtube at both Cunnington and Butcher and geez they look good.........if both are available it will be a tough decision..........

Scott will look at the Pies / Dogs / Cats who got there with strong midfields and weaker forward lines whereas the Saints / Lions have arguably stronger forward lines...........going to be interesting to see............Id be happy with either of the kids.......

lets hope we conjure up some sort of miracle and manufacture a trade to get pick 6 and get both.......

 

[snrub]

no surprise there but you have got to feel for the poor kid

Many years ago, Channel Nine screened a local fly-on-the-wall reality series called Weddings. Cameras followed the families of a couple about to be married. One of the stories involved a Melbourne family in which the groom's young brother was a prospective draftee. As it happens, the cameras captured draft day as the kid and his family were listening in on the radio to the draft selections. He was taken as an early selection by Sydney Swans. Tears flowed as the reality of the situation set in, that the kid would have to relocate and to such a shit club (this was early 90s when the Swans were a basket case.) That kid's name was Shannon Grant.

I can't help thinking of this when considering Dustin Martin being drafted by Richmond. Okay he doesn't have to relocate very far, but he does have to go to a basket case club. Hopefully, like Shagger, he can escape and have a fulfilling and successful career at a good club.

 

[Groucho]

Many years ago, Channel Nine screened a local fly-on-the-wall reality series called Weddings. Cameras followed the families of a couple about to be married. One of the stories involved a Melbourne family in which the groom's young brother was a prospective draftee. As it happens, the cameras captured draft day as the kid and his family were listening in on the radio to the draft selections. He was taken as an early selection by Sydney Swans. Tears flowed as the reality of the situation set in, that the kid would have to relocate and to such a shit club (this was early 90s when the Swans were a basket case.) That kid's name was Shannon Grant.

I can't help thinking of this when considering Dustin Martin being drafted by Richmond. Okay he doesn't have to relocate very far, but he does have to go to a basket case club. Hopefully, like Shagger, he can escape and have a fulfilling and successful career at a good club.

I remember that show very well. Little did I realise it would all work out so well for the kid!

 

[Pykie]

Its a win-win with these two boys.


Martin has the polish, is very dual footed, and can hit a leading target (although, I wouldnt take his DC results into consideration, he plays a laconic style, similar to Dal Santo, he doesnt use pace).



Cunnington is the V8 engine in the middle, with the killed or be killed attitude, as most know, is one of my favourites, purely because of the way he plays the game. Think Anthony Stevens.




If #5 ends up being Cunnington, id hate to line up against our midfield in a couple of years.


Greenwood, Ziebell, Swallow and Cunnington is a frightening quartet.

 

[__aria__]

hey pykie have you seen much of this troy taylor kid

sounds like along with a couple other clubs we have talked him out of signing with the gold coast

couple of very interesting emma quayle articles

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rfnews/taylor-the-prize-in-tugofwar/2009/10/03/1254418753752.html

http://www.clontarffootball.com/articles.php?req=read&article_id=1097

 

[Pykie]

hey pykie have you seen much of this troy taylor kid

sounds like along with a couple other clubs we have talked him out of signing with the gold coast

couple of very interesting emma quayle articles

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rfnews/taylor-the-prize-in-tugofwar/2009/10/03/1254418753752.html

http://www.clontarffootball.com/articles.php?req=read&article_id=1097

I had the pleasure of watching him live for 2 games this year.


He can play.


Wouldn't suprise me if he was in the frame for our new #25, even though he could go later.

One of those players Aria, depending on how clubs think he could develop, especially with some of his off field issues.


Around 6"3, super agile, quick, magic from the Liam Jurrah, Daniel Motlop school of 3rd talls.


Was one of the best players for Northern Territory, just about topped their goal kicking for the carnival.


Would love him with our 3rd rounder (or one of), as I would use 21 + 25 on more pressing issues, i.e a tall/midfield combo of a Griffiths/Bastinac.

 

[bellzy]

Sounds Arch-esq.

Well, sort of.

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

Its a win-win with these two boys.

Think Anthony Stevens.

After seeing a bit of this kid, this was my first thought. Has a similar strong but streamline body type, has a footballer's brain, good skills and tough as nails. The desperation he shows is amazing.

Ziebell, Swallow and Cunnington starting in the center in 2010 will be awesome.

 

[Carnthe]

My worry with Cunnington is that he will be too similar to Ziebell. And that's no sleight on him, as I'm sure he's a good player. But we already have Ziebell and Swallow as our contested footy players. Also Greenwood looked like he could be another hard bodied midfielder. We still need blokes with skill who can take it away from the contest and find targets, and dispose of the ball well in the forward 50. We have Anthony and Wells but I think we need more of these type. I'm leaning towards Kane Lucas (assuming Martin will not be available) as he tested well athletically (speed, endurance, agility and vertical leap), does anyone know how he tested in the kicking test?

Kicking has been reported as a strength and a weakness by some. I have seen some footage of him and he looked pretty sound. And I know he has been able to find a bit of the footy in the WAFL and kick goals as well. What do you guys think in regards to Cunnington v Lucas?