List Mgmt. Pick 56 - Dougal Howard 199cm KPF (err KPD) ... maybe KPF

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Jack1870

Debutant
Oct 21, 2015
53
158
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Port Adelaide Magpies
I'm still annoyed about the trading of Howard,you can just see so many 'What If' moments next season,when a 200cm forward tears undersized Clurey and Jonas a new one,our first loss in China thanks to the defence of Howard,etc etc.
Extremely disappointed in PAFC and those responsible for Howards's departure.
Anyone at Port who thought that was a good idea should leave,we can't afford to have staff as clueless as that at our Club.
 

Power Raid

TheBrownDog
Oct 15, 2004
63,615
52,341
West Perth
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Should be used to it by now but still infuriating.

The we are right and it's not our fault talk from coaches. No one wants to take responsibility.

Especially when we put Dougal in the position to fall.
what I think it is actually all about is we put Howard on the trade table for Fantasia. When Fantasia fell through, we had already damaged the Howard relationship and the rest is history.
 

Powerage

All Australian
Aug 14, 2014
944
1,174
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
he's lazy as fu**. I fully agree with Bassett's assessment.
Yeah, lazy fu**. Look at that year off he had in 2016-17.

A guy who racks up so many spoils and one-percenters doesn't exactly fit the mould of lazy. Maybe though...

He was going OK in the back line, but just OK. So we signed him to a four year deal. He'd lost his spot to Jack Watts in the opening rounds first two rounds. If Jack didn't get injured, who knows if he ever would've regained that spot down back or if Watts would have faded to traditional form even as a defender in time to come. It's hard to tell having seen Jack play a game and three quarters in that position.
Edited for completeness.
 

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Enviable Tradition

Professional Procrastinator
Oct 12, 2007
17,500
18,602
The Hills
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I was told by someone with good contacts today that the problem with Dougal was not just that he demanded to be played at CHB but he also only wanted to play his way (I.e playing the back shoulder and fisting the ball away).

It seems by the time he got to his end of season review he and already spoken to a club that had promised him that role and style.

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Janus

Dominus Ex Machina
Sep 9, 2007
20,349
49,843
Portland, Oregon
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Dallas Cowboys, Chicago Bulls
I was told by someone with good contacts today that the problem with Dougal was not just that he demanded to be played at CHB but he also only wanted to play his way (I.e playing the back shoulder and fisting the ball away).

It seems by the time he got to his end of season review he and already spoken to a club that had promised him that role and style.

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app
I told you - he's lazy as fu**.

Do you see Andrews playing that way? Rance? McGovern? The best defenders in the competition are proactive and hunt the incoming ball for an intercept mark.
 

robbo1981

Club Legend
Nov 16, 2011
1,412
1,677
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I remember screaming at Dougal to make it early in the year just punched what was a simple mark. To his credit he marked the next one lol but if he would just mark more often than not he would be a very good defender. If we couldn't make him do that the coaches need to take some blame.
 

PAFC66

Sack Hinkley
Feb 5, 2007
18,801
12,205
Melbourne
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I told you - he's lazy as fu**.

Do you see Andrews playing that way? Rance? McGovern? The best defenders in the competition are proactive and hunt the incoming ball for an intercept mark.
You'll believe this story as it suits your narrative but nothing about ex PAFC footballers and staff stating Hinkley is a joke. 😅
 

Janus

Dominus Ex Machina
Sep 9, 2007
20,349
49,843
Portland, Oregon
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
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Blaming your employees for (insert shortcoming here) is the calling card of a shit organisation.
Employees who try to dictate the direction of the organisation when all the other employees have bought in need to find another job. If everyone else is doing it one way and you're doing it the opposite in spite of countless efforts to get you to learn the system, you get shifted to another area of the business (which is what happened when Howard went forward). And if you still think you're better off in your original department (defence) but you want to do it your way, you're out the door.

It's a two way street. The coaches asked him to learn to defend a certain way. If he refuses to do it, he gets moved on to a club where he will be better suited.

Everyone else was playing in front of their man. Howard was playing behind his man. That meant that Howard could never push up and provide support to the player in front of him. There's quite a few times when his teammates would look at the space where a leading forward took an uncontested mark and say "You're supposed to ******* be there, man."

Why is it good enough for everyone else to do it but not for him? What makes him so special?
 

El_Scorcho

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 21, 2007
25,568
60,264
AFL Club
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Aston Villa, San Antonio Spurs
Employees who try to dictate the direction of the organisation when all the other employees have bought in need to find another job.
But they haven't, Janus. It's not just 1 or 2 employees, it's the entire playing list, football department, and administration. If everyone but Howard has bought in, we'd be reigning premiers right now.

I don't think lazy is the right word for what you're trying to say. He's not doing it because he can't be bothered. He's been a model professional for his entire career, but he clearly doesn't agree with what the coaches are doing and voiced his concerns. Rumours were that either did Lycett prior to his dropping late in the season.

If one or two players don't buy in, move them on. If most of your list clearly isn't buying in, maybe you're selling garbage.
 

Janus

Dominus Ex Machina
Sep 9, 2007
20,349
49,843
Portland, Oregon
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
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Dallas Cowboys, Chicago Bulls
But they haven't, Janus. It's not just 1 or 2 employees, it's the entire playing list, football department, and administration. If everyone but Howard has bought in, we'd be reigning premiers right now.

I don't think lazy is the right word for what you're trying to say. He's not doing it because he can't be bothered. He's been a model professional for his entire career, but he clearly doesn't agree with what the coaches are doing and voiced his concerns. Rumours were that either did Lycett prior to his dropping late in the season.

If one or two players don't buy in, move them on. If most of your list clearly isn't buying in, maybe you're selling garbage.
The game that Howard actually played defence properly was against West Coast - he was given 12 votes against the Eagles. We won that game by a comfortable margin. He played in our best win for the year and played well, and yet he decided that doing it his way was better?

If I've got five defenders playing in front of their man, and one player playing behind his man, it looks like this:

1573395031245.png


The defenders in blue playing in front can get to the incoming ball faster than their opponents because they are in an advanced position. However, if one player (Howard) in the top left plays behind instead, all his opponent needs to do is bring the ball to ground for player on the half forward flank to run onto it. It's not like he was a super one on one defender that would kill any contest.

It also creates a hole in the defensive zone, because in order to provide support to the half backs, Howard needs to get around his opponent first, which makes it look like an unstructured mess., because all the opponent needs to do is to drop the ball in front of Howard's opponent and there are three players who can get there to lock the ball inside our defensive 50 and force us on the back foot.

The best defenders push up the ground in front of their opponents to intercept. If the midfield is doing their job and the half backs are doing theirs by pushing up the ground, the full backs won't ever have to worry about the ball getting over the back because the kicks coming in will always be under pressure loopy hospital passes that can be intercepted easily.
 

El_Scorcho

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 21, 2007
25,568
60,264
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
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Aston Villa, San Antonio Spurs
The game that Howard actually played defence properly was against West Coast - he was given 12 votes against the Eagles. We won that game by a comfortable margin. He played in our best win for the year and played well, and yet he decided that doing it his way was better?

If I've got five defenders playing in front of their man, and one player playing behind his man, it looks like this:

View attachment 777476

The defenders in blue playing in front can get to the incoming ball faster than their opponents because they are in an advanced position. However, if one player (Howard) in the top left plays behind instead, all his opponent needs to do is bring the ball to ground for player on the half forward flank to run onto it. It's not like he was a super one on one defender that would kill any contest.

It also creates a hole in the defensive zone, because in order to provide support to the half backs, Howard needs to get around his opponent first, which makes it look like an unstructured mess., because all the opponent needs to do is to drop the ball in front of Howard's opponent and there are three players who can get there to lock the ball inside our defensive 50 and force us on the back foot.

The best defenders push up the ground in front of their opponents to intercept. If the midfield is doing their job and the half backs are doing theirs by pushing up the ground, the full backs won't ever have to worry about the ball getting over the back because the kicks coming in will always be under pressure loopy hospital passes that can be intercepted easily.
Despite all this, in his 8 games playing in defence he averaged 6.75 intercept possessions a game, good for 3rd highest average for our team behind Hartlett and DBJ. Must have been doing something right.

Also forward lines and defences don't set up in a grid formation.

But i'm not talking about what he was doing, i'm talking about the message it sends. He clearly didn't buy in. Given the inconsistent performance of just about everyone on the list, clearly they all have days where they just aren't that keen on what we're doing. Ken Hinkley's job is to make them believe, and they just don't.
 
Jun 11, 2019
221
292
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Despite all this, in his 8 games playing in defence he averaged 6.75 intercept possessions a game, good for 3rd highest average for our team behind Hartlett and DBJ. Must have been doing something right.

Also forward lines and defences don't set up in a grid formation.

But i'm not talking about what he was doing, i'm talking about the message it sends. He clearly didn't buy in. Given the inconsistent performance of just about everyone on the list, clearly they all have days where they just aren't that keen on what we're doing. Ken Hinkley's job is to make them believe, and they just don't.
I'm not saying Janus is right but I dont think looking at stats justifies a single players playstyle. I watched Lienert have a few games this year where if you just looked at his stats he looked great, but when you watch the game he was well out of position and leaving gaps in our defence for uncontested marks.

I dont know that was the case with Howard because while he definitely favoured playing from behind, I didnt notice everyone else playing from in front. We certainly weren't man on man most of the time anyway. Howard playing from behind is more likely his preference to play as a 3rd tall sweeper, which really, is not what we need a 199cm KPD for. Any of the undersized defenders can do that role, Dougal needs to be the main man taking marks from balls kicked on his head.
 

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