List Mgmt. Pick 56 - Dougal Howard 199cm KPF (err KPD) ... maybe KPF

Magus

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lol all this shit about Dougal not wanting to play the way the coaches asked is all well and good until you realise we have no-one to replace him. We will get badly exposed in defence in 2020 - fact.

What would you prefer, a player that punches the ball or a group of players that cant reach it?

That this regime was comfortable with letting him go at all is proof that they have no idea. Never forget the wise words of Nathan Bassett - "it doesn't matter how tall you are, just how good you are."
 

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Enviable Tradition

Professional Procrastinator
Oct 12, 2007
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I told you - he's lazy as fu**.

Do you see Andrews playing that way? Rance? McGovern? The best defenders in the competition are proactive and hunt the incoming ball for an intercept mark.
The fact that he wants to play to his strengths doesn't make him lazy.

Selfish perhaps.

It perhaps he is showing leadership by recognizing our game plan isnt working and isn't using his strengths and demanding change to capitalise on his elite traits for the good of the team.

Having said that no matter how wrong the coaches may be you will never succeed if you have players (especially future leaders) who aren't willing to buy in.

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Despite all this, in his 8 games playing in defence he averaged 6.75 intercept possessions a game, good for 3rd highest average for our team behind Hartlett and DBJ. Must have been doing something right.

Also forward lines and defences don't set up in a grid formation.

But i'm not talking about what he was doing, i'm talking about the message it sends. He clearly didn't buy in. Given the inconsistent performance of just about everyone on the list, clearly they all have days where they just aren't that keen on what we're doing. Ken Hinkley's job is to make them believe, and they just don't.
Troy Chaplin amassed very high intercept possessions........
 

Janus

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The fact that he wants to play to his strengths doesn't make him lazy.

Selfish perhaps.

It perhaps he is showing leadership by recognizing our game plan isnt working and isn't using his strengths and demanding change to capitalise on his elite traits for the good of the team.

Having said that no matter how wrong the coaches may be you will never succeed if you have players (especially future leaders) who aren't willing to buy in.

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Mentally lazy.

The reason why he didn’t want to learn how to play in front was because that would mean he had to anticipate the ball more and have to ensure he wasn’t in a position where he could be bumped out of the contest like Hipwood did to him. It meant he had to grow as a defender, whereas he obviously felt he was perfectly fine the way he was playing.

He’s not that good a defender one on one to be demanding everyone else change for his style. Defence is a unit -everyone has to buy in or it’s not going to work.
 

Schulzenfest

TheBrownDog
Feb 23, 2008
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Mentally lazy.

The reason why he didn’t want to learn how to play in front was because that would mean he had to anticipate the ball more and have to ensure he wasn’t in a position where he could be bumped out of the contest like Hipwood did to him. It meant he had to grow as a defender, whereas he obviously felt he was perfectly fine the way he was playing.

He’s not that good a defender one on one to be demanding everyone else change for his style. Defence is a unit -everyone has to buy in or it’s not going to work.
Have you ever looked into sports psychology m8? Nobody knows more about what footballers are thinking than you do.
 

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NEGAN

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Doogs should improve elsewhere by default of being in a Ken free zone.

But he is a tad overrated for his current output
 

Spadge

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Oct 7, 2004
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Side note: Interesting that everyone that leaves is either branded as a cancer or lazy or whatever. But the current guys we have are top professionals (Until they leave and are thrown under the bus). It's a very crow way of approaching when we lose players.
not by everyone

im still filthy that we let him go and we'll be worse off for it
 

Janus

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Have you ever looked into sports psychology m8? Nobody knows more about what footballers are thinking than you do.
I don’t need to know what they are thinking. Your actions display your thoughts. Whether it’s on the field, at your job, or posting on a forum like this one.

For example, I know you were thinking how clever and witty you were when you posted this sarcastic comment.

I wonder if you still feel witty and clever?
 

Schulzenfest

TheBrownDog
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I don’t need to know what they are thinking. Your actions display your thoughts. Whether it’s on the field, at your job, or posting on a forum like this one.

For example, I know you were thinking how clever and witty you were when you posted this sarcastic comment.

I wonder if you still feel witty and clever?
No of course not, I feel like an absolute fool now that your incredible comeback has blown me out of the water.
 

El_Scorcho

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I don’t need to know what they are thinking. Your actions display your thoughts. Whether it’s on the field, at your job, or posting on a forum like this one.

For example, I know you were thinking how clever and witty you were when you posted this sarcastic comment.

I wonder if you still feel witty and clever?
This post is like a Dan Houston handball straight to Schulzenfest's feet.
 

Janus

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This post is like a Dan Houston handball straight to Schulzenfest's feet.
Another attempt to be witty and clever, based on an emotional remark in a review thread I made two years ago, designed to elicit an emotional response :)

Emotions cloud judgement and make you believe that what you are feeling is the most rational thing in the world. I'm feeling a certain way and by god, I'm going to let everyone know I'm pissed off! It's like the guy who cuts you off in traffic - you're telling everyone about him for the rest of the day 'Let me tell you about this asshole...' Your thought process for that day is based around what someone else did.

And yet, that guy hasn't given you a single thought other than the two minutes he might have felt bad for doing something inconsiderate...or less, if he really is an asshole.

Far better to just be angry for 30 seconds and then let it go.

"A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of."
 

El_Scorcho

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Another attempt to be witty and clever, based on an emotional remark in a review thread I made two years ago, designed to elicit an emotional response :)

Emotions cloud judgement and make you believe that what you are feeling is the most rational thing in the world. I'm feeling a certain way and by god, I'm going to let everyone know I'm pissed off! It's like the guy who cuts you off in traffic - you're telling everyone about him for the rest of the day 'Let me tell you about this asshole...' Your thought process for that day is based around what someone else did.

And yet, that guy hasn't given you a single thought other than the two minutes he might have felt bad for doing something inconsiderate...or less, if he really is an asshole.

Far better to just be angry for 30 seconds and then let it go.

"A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of."
Two years ago I said that extending Ken Hinkley's contract was a very high risk move for a coach who was 3 years removed from the 2014 finals series that he was dining out on.

Anyway

You said that actions display thoughts. I agree.

Our player's actions display the thoughts that they aren't confident in what they're being asked to do. Not in one game, but over 5 long years.

We've moved on most of the list in that time, yet the problems persist. Why? Players aren't robots, they'll have thoughts, feelings and emotions about what we do as a club and what they're asked to do as players. Why have we had list after list over the past half a decade clearly not buying in?
 

Janus

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Two years ago I said that extending Ken Hinkley's contract was a very high risk move for a coach who was 3 years removed from the 2014 finals series that he was dining out on.

Anyway

You said that actions display thoughts. I agree.

Our player's actions display the thoughts that they aren't confident in what they're being asked to do. Not in one game, but over 5 long years.

We've moved on most of the list in that time, yet the problems persist. Why? Players aren't robots, they'll have thoughts, feelings and emotions about what we do as a club and what they're asked to do as players. Why have we had list after list over the past half a decade clearly not buying in?
You know it was stated that the players themselves came up with how they wanted to play in 2019 during last year's preseason? Ken asked them what sort of football they liked playing, and they said 'Like this'. It was a collaborative effort. That's why Ken said he was going to back them in after the loss against Richmond.

If Howard didn't want to play that way, he's basically giving the finger to his teammates.

You point to Richmond, I'll point to West Coast.

You point to GWS, I'll point to Geelong.

You point to North Melbourne, I'll point to Essendon.

For every dumb loss, we had a good win. 11 wins, 11 losses.

The problems exist because if you've got one player in the team that says 'I'm sorry, I'll do it right next time' and continues to play a different way when you give him encouragement after encouragement, it's going to affect the mentality of everyone else on the team who is thinking 'Why is this guy being persisted with for so long?'

That's what I had an issue with this year - the amount of time it took for Hinkley to bite the bullet and drop a player when you could see a poor performance coming from a mile away. For mine, two poor games is enough to be out of the team.

But there's a difference between lack of confidence through inexperience and point blank refusal to play a certain way. I saw Byrne-Jones, Bonner, Burton, Clurey and Hartlett all have good to great games in defence this year when they could trust that the players behind them would cover. Even Howard had a good game against West Coast.

How could the defender in front of Howard push up the ground when he's unsure that Howard is going to be in a position to cover his man when he does so? That's the question I want answered.
 

El_Scorcho

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Strange that they took a player who had gone rogue and made him captain. I mean you could argue that they were just trying to encourage him, but wouldn't that piss off the rest of the playing group even further under your theory?

Stranger still that the coaching panel kept their jobs after handing overall strategy control to the players in the 7th year under the current coach.

I'm not pointing to wins or losses. I know we're good enough to win, otherwise i'd be less angry. I'm pointing to the complete mystery that is what Port Adelaide side is going to turn up each week. A handfull of players had what could be described as a consistent season. The same could be said in 2018. The same could be said in 2017.

You told us at the end of 2018 that it was Polec and Wingard who were the players who were divisive and the cause of our inconsistency. Now it's Howard. Who do you reckon you'll blame next year?
 

Magus

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You know it was stated that the players themselves came up with how they wanted to play in 2019 during last year's preseason? Ken asked them what sort of football they liked playing, and they said 'Like this'. It was a collaborative effort.
So what does Ken actually do again?
 

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