List Mgmt. Pick 9

[swuzzlebubble]

Assuming their pick is #1 there's a premium to be paid.
GC would probably baulk at it anyway

 

[Funk]

Hockey metaphors?

**** me!

Pffftttt.

Go **** yourself.......

 

[Funk]

Like the sound of Robertson and happy to take him with pick 9.
But for the sake of the discussion, let’s say he’s gone before then.
Fremantle have pick 10 and Hawthorn pick 11.
Both have players expected to be around that mark, Henry for Fremantle and Maginness for Hawthorn.
I’m sure Silvagni could indicate to both clubs that we are intending to take their player with our pick 9 which would force them to match the bid and miss out on taking another player with their respective picks 10 & 11 before paying for a matched bid on their players with later picks.
Basically, we could say to both clubs, we’ll trade our pick 9 to you for your pick 10 or 11, but whoever throws in the best sweetener gets the deal whilst the other club loses the chance and will be forced to match the bid on their player with their pick 10 or 11.
For example :
Fremantle offer pick 10 and a 3rd rounder
Hawthorn offer pick 11 and a 2nd rounder
We accept Hawthorn’s offer and basically pick up a 2nd rounder for free.
That 2nd rounder could even be a future 2nd rounder that could help us land targeted players in the trade period next year.
Suddenly, the game is on and we might be able to make a very good hand of the cards we hold.
Then we add Martin for free in the PSD and we’re loaded with picks and cash for another crack at Papley next year ...

100% agree.

I highly rate our need to preserve/build our portfolio of 2020 draft picks.

We need Trade currency if we are to lure OOC players next year (unless they are FA’s).

 

[murphster]

They had - and still have - many players who were drafted as inside mids, and they found (and are still tinkering with) a balance between their best possible midfield at any given time and the players whose attributes best allow them to rest or play forward or back without loss of output. That team - as a midfield behemoth, rather than a team based off backline or front half strength - demonstrates how inside midfielders in excess only mean that teams simply cannot deny you the ball, and that you can in all probability deny it to them.

I still don't see how this is such a sticking point. What I want from this draft period is Stephens from pick 9, a small forward and an inside mid with our other picks. If that inside mid is Robertson, I would be content with that; if it is someone else, I would also be content with that, provided they are not limited positionally and possess AFL attributes. Stephens adds more pace, pinpoint disposal, and a genuine option in space at all times through the midfield; as we struggle with transition between the arcs, he'd be nearly perfect for us, LOB on one side and him on the other. But I am more concerned for the future, as I've said a number of times, because we will not know exactly when Murphy and Ed will drop off until they do. If others are to pick up the slack, they would need to improve collectively by about 25-30% across the board, and taking for granted that it will just happen is not good management.

I think Cooper Stephens would be a good choice as a slider for our inside mid assuming that’s the way we go, might get into the second round and would be a bargain get in the twenties if we could manage to secure a pick in that range, then hope that Pickett is still there at 43 as I think he would be the perfect apprentice for Eddie.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

But for the sake of the discussion, let’s say he’s gone before then.
Fremantle have pick 10 and Hawthorn pick 11.
Both have players expected to be around that mark, Henry for Fremantle and Maginness for Hawthorn.
I’m sure Silvagni could indicate to both clubs that we are intending to take their player with our pick 9 which would force them to match the bid and miss out on taking another player with their respective picks 10 & 11 before paying for a matched bid on their players with later picks.
Basically, we could say to both clubs, we’ll trade our pick 9 to you for your pick 10 or 11, but whoever throws in the best sweetener gets the deal whilst the other club loses the chance and will be forced to match the bid on their player with their pick 10 or 11.
For example :
Fremantle offer pick 10 and a 3rd rounder
Hawthorn offer pick 11 and a 2nd rounder
We accept Hawthorn’s offer and basically pick up a 2nd rounder for free.

Wouldn't Freo and Hawthorn both know if they offer nothing we'll give 9 to the other so won't be bidding? Or would Haw bid on Freo's player and visa versa?

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Jeremias in my observations the earlier pick in the trade seems to bring a premium above the points approach. If it’s worth 1469 you can probably add 400-500 on what ‘trading down’ would generate.

Not a long way off 15 and 20.....

This should be built into the points table.
Obviously the 'curve' of the points relativity won't match the talent distribution in any given year though.

 

[Red Bull]

Wouldn't Freo and Hawthorn both know if they offer nothing we'll give 9 to the other so won't be bidding? Or would Haw bid on Freo's player and visa versa?

The only guarantee that either club has that we won’t bid on their player and force them to match using their respective pick that they would want to use to take another player with before paying for a matched bid on said player with later picks is to make a deal with Carlton.
Example :
Fremantle offer pick 10 and a future 2nd for our pick 9.
Fremantle take a quality player with pick 9 and are happy to pay with later picks for their player when he is bid on around that mark.
Hawthorn don’t offer anything and we duly bid on their player with pick 10, forcing them to use their pick 11 to match the bid and forfeiting the chance to use pick 11 on a quality player and paying for a matched bid on their player with later picks as Fremantle would do.
With the 3 clubs picks all in a row and Fremantle and Hawthorn having players rated around that mark, it’s a great opportunity for Carlton to snare a bonus pick for basically nothing as the incentive for Fremantle and Hawthorn to make a deal is real.

 

[HARKER]

So, Gold Coast have #15 & #20 and openly announce they want another pick inside the top 10 - https://www.goldcoastfc.com.au/news/2019-10-23/suns-on-the-hunt-for-another-top10-draft-pick
Gold Coast want to save some face and slide Martin to us but want to be seen to be doing a deal of sorts with what should now be their trading enemy.
Can anyone else see a deal being done here where we give up #9 and a future 2nd/3rd for #15 & #20?

Unless the CFC have a really good idea they'll be getting the player they want at #9, then this scenario could be quite a good one for us.

 

[Red Bull]

So, Gold Coast have #15 & #20 and openly announce they want another pick inside the top 10 - https://www.goldcoastfc.com.au/news/2019-10-23/suns-on-the-hunt-for-another-top10-draft-pick
Gold Coast want to save some face and slide Martin to us but want to be seen to be doing a deal of sorts with what should now be their trading enemy.
Can anyone else see a deal being done here where we give up #9 and a future 2nd/3rd for #15 & #20?

Unless the CFC have a really good idea they'll be getting the player they want at #9, then this scenario could be quite a good one for us.

One way of looking at it is to just put $1 million on his head in the PSD and see if Tony wants to part with that for a player that has twice requested to leave and obviously doesn’t want to be there.
Added to that, the AFL just won’t have that scenario playing out.
The AFLPA would be on the warpath and the threat of restraint of trade being tested would be to much for the jellyfish Gillon.
Carlton offered an industry wide accepted more than fair deal for an OOC player requesting to leave for the second time after 7 years service.
Tony has had his desired publicity but he made his bed in this case and now he has to ly in it when we walk Martin through the PSD.
Id prefer to use pick 9 in a deal with either Fremantle or Hawthorn as outlined above.

 

[bmaurizio]

I’d trade pick 9 & 85 for Suns picks 15, 20 & 78 and they delist Martin without kerfuffle.

 

[HARKER]

One way of looking at it is to just put $1 million on his head in the PSD and see if Tony wants to part with that for a player that has twice requested to leave and obviously doesn’t want to be there.
Added to that, the AFL just won’t have that scenario playing out.
The AFLPA would be on the warpath and the threat of restraint of trade being tested would be to much for the jellyfish Gillon.
Carlton offered an industry wide accepted more than fair deal for an OOC player requesting to leave for the second time after 7 years service.
Tony has had his desired publicity but he made his bed in this case and now he has to ly in it when we walk Martin through the PSD.
Id prefer to use pick 9 in a deal with either Fremantle or Hawthorn as outlined above.

I get that but you know.....'in the spirit of things'.
I don't think we should cut our nose to spite our face either, should the GC come knocking.

Anyway, just a thought and maybe the whole thing is being played out already for everyone to save face.........including the AFL.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

So, Gold Coast have #15 & #20 and openly announce they want another pick inside the top 10 - https://www.goldcoastfc.com.au/news/2019-10-23/suns-on-the-hunt-for-another-top10-draft-pick
Gold Coast want to save some face and slide Martin to us but want to be seen to be doing a deal of sorts with what should now be their trading enemy.
Can anyone else see a deal being done here where we give up #9 and a future 2nd/3rd for #15 & #20?

Unless the CFC have a really good idea they'll be getting the player they want at #9, then this scenario could be quite a good one for us.

What would our 2020 1st be worth as a straight swap into this year? Pick 10?
Same for our 2020 2nd. 30?

 

[bmaurizio]

At pick 9 anyone of the following would be a a solid addition,
Liam Henry, Luke Jackson or Brodie Kemp.
Anyone of these youngsters together with Stocker make our 1st rounder huge success.

 

[Red Bull]

I get that but you know.....'in the spirit of things'.
I don't think we should cut our nose to spite our face either, should the GC come knocking.

Anyway, just a thought and maybe the whole thing is being played out already for everyone to save face.........including the AFL.

After our industry accepted fair offer for OOC Martin, Carlton would lose no face by walking Martin through the PSD.
Mark Evans, Craig Cameron, the AFL and the AFLPA would all be aware that this situation is all of Tony’s making.
Everyone is/should be accountable for their performance ...

 

[HARKER]

After our industry accepted fair offer for OOC Martin, Carlton would lose no face by walking Martin through the PSD.
Mark Evans, Craig Cameron, the AFL and the AFLPA would all be aware that this situation is all of Tony’s making.
Everyone is/should be accountable for their performance ...

No argument but you know how things may just play out -
GC as a whole doesn't lose face (List Managers and the executive) and therefore the AFL doesn't lose face and yet the CFC may just get what they want.

Yeah sure - More conspiracy theories, but this is the level of manipulation we're getting to. Rub my belly in the right way and I'll rub yours.

 

[windows1]

Bulldogs 2016 inside mids
Bont
Liberatore
McCrae
Hunter not sure if inside

Picken played forward
Dunkley played forward


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

Bont was outside in 2016. Hunter hasn’t been ‘inside’ since he left the womb.

 

[windows1]

So, Gold Coast have #15 & #20 and openly announce they want another pick inside the top 10 - https://www.goldcoastfc.com.au/news/2019-10-23/suns-on-the-hunt-for-another-top10-draft-pick
Gold Coast want to save some face and slide Martin to us but want to be seen to be doing a deal of sorts with what should now be their trading enemy.
Can anyone else see a deal being done here where we give up #9 and a future 2nd/3rd for #15 & #20?

Unless the CFC have a really good idea they'll be getting the player they want at #9, then this scenario could be quite a good one for us.

You must have me on ignore Harks. I’ve been a broken record about this.

 

[Red Bull]

No argument but you know how things may just play out -
GC as a whole doesn't lose face (List Managers and the executive) and therefore the AFL doesn't lose face and yet the CFC may just get what they want.

Yeah sure - More conspiracy theories, but this is the level of manipulation we're getting to. Rub my belly in the right way and I'll rub yours.

Simply put, i wouldn’t be interested in losing pick 9 + for 15 and 20.
Deal with Fremantle or Hawthorn and have a bonus 2nd rounder this year or a future 2nd rounder in the bank along with retaining a pick this year for one of the higher rated players as this year may well be our last crack at the elite talent for a while.

 

[BigBreakfast]

I have absolutely no inside information or connections with the club.

As an external observer, it seemed as though our interest in Gray and Butler faded as it became clearer that Papley, Martin and Betts were going to nominate us. The addition of either Gray or Butler would have seen them spend more time at VFL than AFL had all three trades gone through.

Now that Papley has fallen through, there is a genuine opportunity for a small forward in our team. Port have a few of his type, so Gray may end up falling down the pecking order. Could see a Jack Newnes type situation where he decides to pursue opportunities elsewhere despite having a contract in front of him.

As for obtaining a second rounder in this year's draft, there are three clear opportunities that could present without trading down the order:

1. Hawthorn's pick 30 (629 points): If a bid for Finn Maginness falls after their first rounder between picks 12-30, Hawthorn may wish to trade pick 30 for a couple of thirds to help cover a bid of 1000+ points. (picks 43 + 57 + converted future 3rd to 2019 pick) will give Hawthorn a favourable trade and surplus of points to match bids.

2. Port's pick 29 (653 points): Same situation as Hawthorn but with father-son prospect Jackson Mead.

3. Fremantle's pick 22 (845 points): If a bid for NGA prospect Liam Henry falls between 11 to 22, this pick will be consumed to match the bid. An option here is to trade our future second + 2 x 3rd round selections for Frementle's pick 22. This gives Fremantle an opportunity to match the bid with back end picks equating to a similar value, but also transfer their second rounder into a 2020 2nd (effectively gives Freo one additional second round selection).

The advantage for us is that we move our second rounder a year forward and get another year into a player, but also gives us the potential to grab a slider we view as a potential top 12-15 pick.

If we take another player such as Sam Gray, we'll probably only end up taking 3-4 teenagers max. Picks 9 and another top 30 selection would be a good start. Then just take a couple right at the back end of the draft.

Great suggestions, Eiffel. Well done. I think the general perception is that we want to keep some draft currency for the trade period next year though. If anything, we will endeavour to trade even further into the 2020 draft.

 

[Arr0w]

Keep pick 9, do another Stocker type trade, while still holding a 1st rounder next year

 

[HARKER]

You must have me on ignore Harks. I’ve been a broken record about this.

No. I don't have anyone on ignore.
Sorry I missed your viewpoint. What else do you see?

Simply put, i wouldn’t be interested in losing pick 9 + for 15 and 20.
Deal with Fremantle or Hawthorn and have a bonus 2nd rounder this year or a future 2nd rounder in the bank along with retaining a pick this year for one of the higher rated players as this year may well be our last crack at the elite talent for a while.

I'm not as interested in the numbers as for the opportunities.
If we don't have a clear target with the #9, why wouldn't we chance at two picks under 20 if we feel there may be something worthwhile there?

We've already moved on plenty and need to restore some balance into the list and FFS, I don't want that to be via DFA's, so maybe...maybe...we may get not just one but two pieces of the pie here.

 

[Red Bull]

No. I don't have anyone on ignore.
Sorry I missed your viewpoint. What else do you see?



I'm not as interested in the numbers as for the opportunities.
If we don't have a clear target with the #9, why wouldn't we chance at two picks under 20 if we feel there may be something worthwhile there?

We've already moved on plenty and need to restore some balance into the list and FFS, I don't want that to be via DFA's, so maybe...maybe...we may get not just one but two pieces of the pie here.

I just see this year as our last crack at the elite talent for a while.
The next decade should provide plenty of opportunity to see what we can conjure up with picks around 20 and beyond.

 

[smashbox gill]

Lol people thinking that we will threaten hawthorn or freo and say we will bid on their player to trade us an extra 2nd rounder are deluded.

That is acting in bad faith and something we just would not do. This is professional sport.

And if we did that imagine next time we have a father son top 10 pick and they bid out of bad faith.

It just doesn’t happen

 

[Arr0w]

Yeah, like Setters

 

[Red Bull]

Lol people thinking that we will threaten hawthorn or freo and say we will bid on their player to trade us an extra 2nd rounder are deluded.

That is acting in bad faith and something we just would not do. This is professional sport.

And if we did that imagine next time we have a father son top 10 pick and they bid out of bad faith.

It just doesn’t happen

Yes, it is professional sport and the proposed deal would have merit for either club as outlined.
Those 2 players are rated right around that mark, Carlton would be well within their rights to bid on them and be happy to secure them.