List Mgmt. Pick 9

[bmaurizio]

Yup there’s a lot to like about Devon’s maturity and attitude

Thought as much. Been watching too much NBA. FWIW, I’d be happy with Ash, Serong or Kemp at 9. Think there will be a bidding war on Jackson though and we trade back. Should bid on Henry if still available at 9.

Agree with you on your pick 9 suggestions, anyone of the 4 youngsters would be a verry good addition to the list.

 

[HARKER]

Criminally underrating Ash who has long been considered one of the best prospects in this draft.

He doesn't have to transition to any other position on the ground to be a valuable selection inside the top 10 either.

Maybe, but just don't see it with Ash. Young yes, Ash not so much.

I understand that many want talent for talents sake and then 'let's work things out how he fits later' sort of thing.
I'd sooner hold off and see how Docherty and Williamson come back and deal with any backline needs thereafter.

Simpson is going and we do seem to talk about one player being similar to another to take their place. I don't buy that.
We do need pace exiting the back-line but not sure we need to spend a top ten pick for it.

 

[Jeremias]

Maybe, but just don't see it with Ash. Young yes, Ash not so much.

Sure, I have no issue with that.

Everyone has their favorites and becomes attached to prospects at this stage of the year. Everyone becomes an expert, largely on very limited viewing. Myself included.

I understand that many want talent for talents sake and then 'let's work things out how he fits later' sort of thing.

OK?

I am not sure what you are getting at here, but if you are angling for a discussion on needs vs best available, I am not going down that path. Has been covered ad nauseum.

I'd sooner hold off and see how Docherty and Williamson come back and deal with any backline needs thereafter.

They have played two senior games between them over the past two seasons.

Of course we hope they will return strongly but there are no guarantees. If we rate Ash as clearly the best prospect available at our pick, it would be silly to overlook him just because we have those two on the books already.

Simpson is going and we do seem to talk about one player being similar to another to take their place. I don't buy that.

Simpson is 35 so it is only natural we discuss his replacement. It is clear he won't be around for much longer.

Clearly you are assuming people are suggesting we pick Ash because he is comparable to Simpson, which is not the case. He's a terrific prospect who most have inside their top 10; that he may have a spot open up for him in the not too distant future by way of his comparison hanging up the boots is a bonus.

We do need pace exiting the back-line but not sure we need to spend a top ten pick for it.

Cool, but the same can be said for any type. Where exactly does that line of thought end?

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I would certainly bid on Henry but Freo will match.

Kemp I need more convincing on. The ACL worries me.

I’d put some real pressure on Freo and push for 9+43 > 10+22. Otherwise bid on Henry who fills a need and can learn off Eddie for a season.

Saw a Geelong poster on their board suggest 17 + WCE future 1st for 9 and chips. They really want/need Kemp.

If we have our eye on someone who may be there at 17 it could be worth while. Gives us 3 first (inc 2021) to trade with next season.

 

[murphster]

If SOS is going do you think he'd be less likely to use 9 to stack next year's draft?

We won’t be trading 9 for picks in next years draft no chance as it is heavily compromised with Academy and NGA picks.

 

[HARKER]

Everyone has their favorites and becomes attached to prospects at this stage of the year. Everyone becomes an expert, largely on very limited viewing. Myself included.



OK?

I am not sure what you are getting at here, but if you are angling for a discussion on needs vs best available, I am not going down that path. Has been covered ad nauseum.



They have played two senior games between them over the past two seasons.

Of course we hope they will return strongly but there are no guarantees. If we rate Ash as clearly the best prospect available at our pick, it would be silly to overlook him just because we have those two on the books already.



Simpson is 35 so it is only natural we discuss his replacement. It is clear he won't be around for much longer.

Clearly you are assuming people are suggesting we pick Ash because he is comparable to Simpson, which is not the case. He's a terrific prospect who most have inside their top 10; that he may have a spot open up for him in the not too distant future by way of his comparison hanging up the boots is a bonus.



Cool, but the same can be said for any type. Where exactly does that line of thought end?

I don't think I care for favourites as much as the players I see to be best for the CFC.
Last year I wanted Walsh but felt we 'needed' Rankine more, so it's not always about one or the other and sometimes it can be one of the same.

The backline is Carltons strong suit and all being well Docherty and Williamson will only add to what we have there.
It could go belly-up as much as it could for Ash sustaining a serious injury and never playing again. You have to be careful for the players that have a history and you never know for those that may yet have a similar or worse history in the future.

In summary I see the backline (all being well) as close to complete.
The forward line though? Eddie Betts' one year isn't going to change everything and as we saw recently; If you think you'll find what you need and when you need it in the trade period.....you may be mistaken.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

We won’t be trading 9 for picks in next years draft no chance as it is heavily compromised with Academy and NGA picks.

The only way I could envision us doing that is if we’re after a big ticket player at the end of 2020 (eg. Wines/Petracca) and wanted to stockpile currency to trade for them.

It might too much a case of counting our chickens though, so for that reason I can’t see us being bold enough to do that.

 

[murphster]

Question

Say we were looking to trade down but had no takers. So we then select Player X at 9. Can we then on trade that player or once selected he’s selected. Eg. We select the ruck from WA and GEE wanted him and now offer 14 and 2020 WCE first. Can we do that???

Not at present but will certainly be an option in future drafts if we keep following the US model.

 

[Jeremias]

I don't think I care for favourites as much as the players I see to be best for the CFC.
Last year I wanted Walsh but felt we 'needed' Rankine more, so it's not always about one or the other and sometimes it can be one of the same.

The backline is Carltons strong suit and all being well Docherty and Williamson will only add to what we have there.
It could go belly-up as much as it could for Ash sustaining a serious injury and never playing again. You have to be careful for the players that have a history and you never know for those that may yet have a similar or worse history in the future.

In summary I see the backline (all being well) as close to complete.
The forward line though? Eddie Betts' one year isn't going to change everything and as we saw recently; If you think you'll find what you need and when you need it in the trade period.....you may be mistaken.

Harks, I don't even know what you are arguing any more. Do you?

Our backline is 'close to complete' yet we conceded the 4th most points of all sides in 2019.

We shouldn't add Ash to our defense because of its strength....yet you advocate taking Young.

We should be careful picking Ash because he may sustain a serious injury.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Speaking of rebounding defenders, what about Josh Worrall as part of a trade down scenario?

 

[HARKER]

Harks, I don't even know what you are arguing any more. Do you?

Our backline is 'close to complete' yet we conceded the 4th most points of all sides in 2019.

We shouldn't add Ash to our defense because of its strength....yet you advocate taking Young.

We should be careful picking Ash because he may sustain a serious injury.

It's really not hard when you think about it.

Docherty missed the year.
Williamson missed the year.
Jones missed half the year.
Marchbank missed a good slice of the year.

You see....not hard

You can't factor for bad luck. It could be McKay, CCurnow and McGovern this year.
You have to back-in the fitness, strength and condition and the self determination of players. The back-line had a hard year, but one can see why.

 

[smashbox gill]

Cal Twomey saying Brisbane looking for a top 10 pick and considering trading 16 & 21

 

[Jeremias]

It's really not hard when you think about it.

Docherty missed the year.
Williamson missed the year.
Jones missed half the year.
Marchbank missed a good slice of the year.

You see....not hard

You can't factor for bad luck. It could be McKay, CCurnow and McGovern this year.
You have to back-in the fitness, strength and condition and the self determination of players. The back-line had a hard year, but one can see why.

Yeah I get all that. But there's every chance most of those players don't return in the way we hope. I am optimistic too but until it happens...

Regardless, suggesting our defense is set and we therefore don't need Ash, yet in the same breath advocating for taking Young, is....strange, to be polite.

 

[Windhover]

I don't think I care for favourites as much as the players I see to be best for the CFC.
Last year I wanted Walsh but felt we 'needed' Rankine more, so it's not always about one or the other and sometimes it can be one of the same.

The backline is Carltons strong suit and all being well Docherty and Williamson will only add to what we have there.
It could go belly-up as much as it could for Ash sustaining a serious injury and never playing again. You have to be careful for the players that have a history and you never know for those that may yet have a similar or worse history in the future.

In summary I see the backline (all being well) as close to complete.
The forward line though? Eddie Betts' one year isn't going to change everything and as we saw recently; If you think you'll find what you need and when you need it in the trade period.....you may be mistaken.

For mine the forward line is more complete (just less credentialed) than the backline.

Betts Harry McGovern
Cuningham Charlie Martin

With SOJ, Dow, Kennedy, gibbons and our best utility, Caz as back-up.

We have to be patient with that lot who have spent a lot of time developing and tantalising us with their potential but I like what I see. I expect Charlie and think harry will both be AA. Betts is ageing but MM Cuningham and Martin all look like, if fit, they would get a game in every side in the afl.

OTOH the backline:

Plowman Jones Marchbank
Simmo Weitering Doc

With Newman, sps, Setterfield, Newnes Macreadie, Willow and Caz as back-up.

There are obviously long term fitness worries with Doc, marchie and willow. Weitering is somewhere around Harry in star rating, Setterfield and sps to hopefully be more midfielders. When simmo retires that leaves plowman, Jones and Newman, none of whom would get a game for every side in the afl IMO.

Oh, and I admire your honesty but Rankine over Walsh on a needs basis?

No.

No.

No. On every level. Even if Rankine becomes a Martin superstar, no.

 

[BluesTragic]

Cal Twomey saying Brisbane looking for a top 10 pick and considering trading 16 & 21

Can I ask a really stupid question?
With so many clubs looking for a top 10 pick, why would we sell ours unless a godfather offer comes along ?
A really good kid is gonna fall at 9....



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[HARKER]

There are obviously long term fitness worries with Doc, marchie and willow. Weitering is somewhere around Harry in star rating, Setterfield and sps to hopefully be more midfielders. When simmo retires that leaves plowman, Jones and Newman, none of whom would get a game for every side in the afl IMO.

If this is the view of the club, we have to let them go but that's not going to happen.
We do need (and have needed for several years, now) a quick, running back-man with good disposal and if this does somehow happen to be Ash, then wiser heads will do what they need to do, should the opportunity present.
I'm not going to tear-up should we take Ash but not sure whether I'd be celebrating either.

Yeah I get all that. But there's every chance most of those players don't return in the way we hope. I am optimistic too but until it happens...

Regardless, suggesting our defense is set and we therefore don't need Ash, yet in the same breath advocating for taking Young, is....strange, to be polite.

Then we have to get rid of them. You can't have it both ways and the TPP sure as hell can't afford it.

Re. Young: I see him as a 'the difference' type of player, that I don't see in Ash.
I think the CFC rate Young high too and just after Kemp. That may be wrong though, as I had to decipher the communication.

 

[rog1995]

Caleb serong marking of the day he's overhead marking shows that he's definitely got a few tricks and athletic traits and I'm definitely warming to this selection because i feel that he's going to get through to 9

Anyone know how Serong tested at the combine?

 

[Jeremias]

Then we have to get rid of them. You can't have it both ways and the TPP sure as hell can't afford it.

Huh? What exactly am I trying to 'have both ways'?

We are not getting rid of Doc any time soon. He can be a valuable contributor even if he doesn't get back to his best.

Williamson has a contract for 2020. As much as we rate him, if he doesn't get on the park this year, we may have to say goodbye.

Last I saw Marchbank was still in a neck brace. There must be question marks as to how he'll come back.

On top of that we've just said goodbye to Daisy and a 35 year old Simpson likely won't be too far behind him.

It is naive to suggest our defense is complete.

Re. Young: I see him as a 'the difference' type of player, that I don't see in Ash.
I think the CFC rate Young high too and just after Kemp. That may be wrong though, as I had to decipher the communication.

What good is 'the difference' down back if we're already complete in that area of the ground?

Will he be the difference for the Northern Blues?

 

[smashbox gill]

We will have a good draft. One of Ash or Serong should fall to us, while Kemp & Robertson should definately be there.

 

[HARKER]

Huh? What exactly am I trying to 'have both ways'?

We are not getting rid of Doc any time soon. He can be a valuable contributor even if he doesn't get back to his best.

Williamson has a contract for 2020. As much as we rate him, if he doesn't get on the park this year, we may have to say goodbye.

Last I saw Marchbank was still in a neck brace. There must be question marks as to how he'll come back.

On top of that we've just said goodbye to Daisy and a 35 year old Simpson likely won't be too far behind him.

It is naive to suggest our defense is complete.



What good is 'the difference' down back if we're already complete in that area of the ground?

Will he be the difference for the Northern Blues?

Docherty - Captain and stays in.
Jones - Mainstay and we didn't give him 3 years for nothing.
Plowman - Third in our B&F and another mainstay of the back-line.

Marchbank - Highly rated and we didn't entertain a trade when questions were asked.
Weitering - Mainstay

******** - This is where we can discuss the last player of our starting back six.

For now it will be Simpson as much as it will be Betts at the other end of the ground.
Newman didn't do much wrong for him not to be considered. Not a bad kick either.
Williamson? Sure, we don't know how he'll come back and should injury follow, it would be unfortunate as it was for Giles a few years back.
Stocker - Yes, he's a mid but started off this year in the back-line and spent most of his time there when playing. Strong, quick, dual-sided..has plenty.
O'Brien - I still see a back-line post for him and with Newnes and Martin coming on board, maybe even more so. Is relatively quick, a very good kick, is courageous even though at times it didn't quite look that way, reasonable mark and wants to play. Also a former top #10 which is the pick we'll like have.

We let Thomas go pretty much because we had future plans here and I can't see how the draft may have come into consideration. It wouldn't have.

Re. Young: I just rate him a lot higher than Ash and see Nick Haynes in him and as posted some weeks ago - Who wouldn't want Nick Haynes?
To me the gap between let's say Ash vs Stephens or Serong, isn't worth reaching for something you have covered.
Young is different and that reach for quality over needs comes into play. It should never just simply be one way.
BTW, I didn't say we should take Young (although I would) but just that I didn't see 'it' in Ash as much as I see 'it' in Young. Just to be clear.

 

[MileHigh]

I think there is a very good chance.

But I doubt we do it before the pick comes around unless we trade up which seems unlikely.

If we are to move it on we will get maximum value by trading it when it comes around.

Agreed I feel like it will be -

1) Is there someone who we rate highly still available there that fits our long term needs. Or...
2) There is going to be a long pause whilst SOS takes phone calls from club's who want a player who's still available.

Possible 3rd case scenario there's a player who has slid that a few club's want (including us) and we get a monster offer too good to turn down.

I'd say there is almost 100% chance we won't be jumping to call a name out quickly and there will be a long pause whilst we take or wait on offers before deciding.

 

[HARKER]

I reckon SOS should call out Blaine Boekhorsts name at #9. Just for one last F.U.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Cal Twomey saying Brisbane looking for a top 10 pick and considering trading 16 & 21

My understanding is that Brisbane have more picks than vacant list spots, which is why they're so keen to consolidate their draft selections.

They currently hold six selections in the first three rounds.

There might be other ways to gain a higher selection than downgrading our first, including:

Trade 1 with Brisbane
Carlton Out: Future 3rd Round (2020)
Carlton In: Pick 52 (2019)

Trade 2 with Hawthorn
Carlton Out: Pick 43 (2019), Pick 52 (2019) & Pick 57 (2019)
Carlton In: Pick 30 (2019)

Assuming bid for Finn Maginness will come before 30.

Benefits for all parties:
1. Brisbane transfer a superfluous pick for future currency.
2. Hawthorn receive draft picks to the value of 806 points for pick 30 valued at 629 points to matching F/S bid.
3. We move up into the second round of the draft.

 

[Stamos]

I'd say there is almost 100% chance we won't be jumping to call a name out quickly

Not almost.
In the first round you have to take the full 6 (?) minutes, you can't go early

 

[Eiffel 65]

Can I ask a really stupid question?
With so many clubs looking for a top 10 pick, why would we sell ours unless a godfather offer comes along ?
A really good kid is gonna fall at 9....



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Not a stupid question.

My understanding is that the draft will become a lot more speculative after the top dozen or so picks, which is why clubs are so desperate to move up the order.

Also, given the even nature of the draft, one could mount a case for any player between the range of picks 3-12 to be taken with pick 3 in the draft.

There's every possibility that clubs see someone on their board available at pick 9/10 that they rank in the top 5 of the draft.

And yes, I agree. Unless it's a godfather offer, we should hold pick 9 and look for other avenues to generate another pick if required.