List Mgmt. Pick 9

[windows1]

serongs contested and uncontested numbers are impressive

I really don’t like his kicking.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

We don’t need another big bodied 3rd tall. We need speed and rebound. Thats why I think there are much better options available which suit our needs

I remember one time a few years ago I was watching a prospect run around during the national championships... and I remember thinking that we didn’t need him because we didn’t need another big bodied 3rd tall, and instead we should have focused on run and carry.

..... that young prospect turned out to be Chas Brownlow.

 

[TerryWallet]

True. I have heard people say that when players spend too long at VFL level, they become VFL players.

In saying that, I'd prefer us to just take the guy with the highest ceiling.

For me, If Kemp is still on the board, he's our man.

I'd be happy to take Kemp. As you say, high ceiling. I dont think we're going to get much access to them from here on in for a while. Hopefully.

And you should always utilise your best assets. Just about our best asset is Andrew Russell. By saying that, i mean if you have a Pick 3 or 4 talent and he's dropped a bit because of injury, back in your best asset to mitigate that.

Pretty sure Kemp is in our mix. He screams "SOS pick at this stage of his list build" to me. I reckon he's happy with the cake and might think it's gonna take some special cream to push into it. If i had to put a dollar on someone for Pick9 at this very minute, it would be Kemp i think.

 

[smashbox gill]

I'd be happy to take Kemp. As you say, high ceiling. I dont think we're going to get much access to them from here on in for a while. Hopefully.

And you should always utilise your best assets. Just about our best asset is Andrew Russell. By saying that, i mean if you have a Pick 3 or 4 talent and he's dropped a bit because of injury, back in your best asset to mitigate that.

Pretty sure Kemp is in our mix. He screams "SOS pick at this stage of his list build" to me. I reckon he's happy with the cake and might think it's gonna take some special cream to push into it. If i had to put a dollar on someone for Pick9 at this very minute, it would be Kemp i think.

The problem I have with Kemp is he may not end up a midfielder. If that’s the case we are very stocked for talls at both ends of the ground.
Forward- Charlie, Harry, gov
Back- weiters, Marchbank, Jones

If he’s seen as a midfielder then I’d take him, otherwise I think there are other players who suit our needs more - ash, Stephens, Robertson, serong

 

[TerryWallet]

The problem I have with Kemp is he may not end up a midfielder. If that’s the case we are very stocked for talls at both ends of the ground.
Forward- Charlie, Harry, gov
Back- weiters, Marchbank, Jones

If he’s seen as a midfielder then I’d take him, otherwise I think there are other players who suit our needs more - ash, Stephens, Robertson, serong

I honestly think you can make arguments for a dozen players at Pick 9. Those you mentioned among them.

Kemp is adament that he sees himself as a mid and wants to work to be a mid. He got 28 i think it was in his go in there at the Champs. He had a better champs than Bont.

You're right that we're not screaming out for height, but we're not screaming out for anything imo. For instance, i can't get why people think we should draft a back flanker at 9. I reckon we have them aplenty as i am dead sure that SPS and Stocker can play there if we want them too.

I'd rather have a go at a mid or forward of centre player. If a Kemp makes it as a mid it is a high ceiling mid and we push one of those mentioned back to the flank ala Vlastuin, Mills and many many others to make a career in a very good team.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Kreuzer is another example. We drafted him as a ruck ‘who Could go forward’. We had huge debate on here at the time. He was kicking 2 goals a week against kids. Just bigger than his defender. Was never going to translate and didn’t.

Flanders will translate as a genuine forward. He’s explosive. Serong will not.

Kreuzer's highest avg goals was his first 2 seasons at about .67goals per game and then dropped off. He was never the same after knee the injury

 

[jezzatigerbrent]

Kreuzer is another example. We drafted him as a ruck ‘who Could go forward’. We had huge debate on here at the time. He was kicking 2 goals a week against kids. Just bigger than his defender. Was never going to translate and didn’t.

Flanders will translate as a genuine forward. He’s explosive. Serong will not.

however wouldn't count on Flanders being there.... And I think serong is proven footballer at the levels he's played at... And that's all he can do at this stage... . > and he's never trained for a full pre-season coz he's devoted half his time to cricket... Whilst I might be beguiled by Stephens pace as well ;I think will regret not taking the natural footballers with production i.e. Serong

 

[JuddgementDay]

I'm going to try to name who I dont want at #9.
Of the top dozen or so...

Not at #9:
Jackson - we dont really want to develop another ruck, at this stage
McAsey - we have enough tall defenders
Robertson - not enough of a ceiling for me
Weightman - I like him, but too much of a reach at #9

Questionable at #9:
Kemp - how bad is his ACL injury?
Serong - I'm just not sold

 

[TerryWallet]

I'm going to try to name who I dont want at #9.
Of the top dozen or so...

Not at #9:
Jackson - we dont really want to develop another ruck, at this stage
McAsey - we have enough tall defenders
Robertson - not enough of a ceiling for me
Weightman - I like him, but too much of a reach at #9

Questionable at #9:
Kemp - how bad is his ACL injury?
Serong - I'm just not sold

Isn't it funny how we all see different things sometimes. I agree with Jackson and McAsey on needs basis but gee i rate them. Agree on Serong. Def agree Weightman no way.

But Robertson....I see Rory Sloane, Callan Ward, Joel Selwood levels of "F-Off, that ball is mine, My team needs it". He's a driver imo. An iron willed AFL driver. Scrappy early on?...yeah....but it's secondary when the elite drive is there.

He's a "get on my back and come with me" guy. Throw him in with Walsh and a couple others and Crippa will be clunkin it and kicking goals while resting forward sooner rather than later.

Whoever gets Robertson in this draft is lucky imo. I'd take him anyday over a few higher rated ones.

 

[jezzatigerbrent]

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2D8Wj6H9zAjrU6ldnUQffX [ AT ABOUT 25 MINS] Dylan Stephens already has a good relationship with David Teague....... Get the feeling that he's already on board [ barracks for us] and would do anything to succeed at Carlton ... And that he is already dreaming/hoping that he will be here ideally

 

[HARKER]

Again, your point would have more merit if we were discussing some random late 2nd/3rd round middle of the rung HBF.
Not one of the premier ones from the first round like Gould.
He is talented and highly acclaimed = fit for talent/best available (#14)
We are currently thin across our half back line = fit for need

He has scope to play alternative roles down the track due to specs to better serve our 22 and provide versatility = added bonus and a big tick.
Going on the above reasoning we are taking him on merit and what he has shown to date in a position where we are lacking IMO, however he has transferable weaponry.

I don't see that at all and have had this chat elsewhere and if we're taking into account players that have been injured to highlight us being thin, we may be doing it wrong. You can't discount Docherty, Wiliamson and Marchbank altogether here. Jones, Weitering, Plowman are the mainstays and then we have Newman, Stocker and a properly developed Macreadie into the mix.
Gould somehow reminds me of Kieran Collins albeit a shorter version. Trust his career won't travel the same path but can't see what he'd offer for us.

Anyway, my principle point was to look at players for where they play and project how far they may go in an AFL system based on that role.
Don't look at backmen and envisage them as forwards, nor HBF'ers as mids.
Do not attribute more value to a player just because you think you can make something of them that they're not. It will rarely work out well.

 

[Doro]

I don't see that at all and have had this chat elsewhere and if we're taking into account players that have been injured to highlight us being thin, we may be doing it wrong. You can't discount Docherty, Wiliamson and Marchbank altogether here. Jones, Weitering, Plowman are the mainstays and then we have Newman, Stocker and a properly developed Macreadie into the mix.
Gould somehow reminds me of Kieran Collins albeit a shorter version. Trust his career won't travel the same path but can't see what he'd offer for us.

Anyway, my principle point was to look at players for where they play and project how far they may go in an AFL system based on that role.
Don't look at backmen and envisage them as forwards, nor HBF'ers as mids.
Do not attribute more value to a player just because you think you can make something of them that they're not. It will rarely work out well.

I agree about the need for caution with this mindset, but these are 18 year olds. Many have no idea who they will become as footballers, or people for that matter.

 

[HARKER]

I agree about the need for caution with this mindset, but these are 18 year olds. Many have no idea who they will become as footballers, or people for that matter.

There will always be exceptions to the rule but generally speaking, backmen are more likely to be so, as they didn't make for great forwards.
Flankers will often be so because they didn't make for the best midfielders.
When we get to this pointy end of junior football, being the last year of the NAB Cup, many templates are already set, although the odd Aaron Naughton will front up and even that came about more from desperation, than design.

I'd just like for our club in the most, to view players for what they are and for how far they could progress in the roles they've been accustomed to.....but there will always be exceptions to the rule.

 

[windows1]

Isn't it funny how we all see different things sometimes. I agree with Jackson and McAsey on needs basis but gee i rate them. Agree on Serong. Def agree Weightman no way.

But Robertson....I see Rory Sloane, Callan Ward, Joel Selwood levels of "F-Off, that ball is mine, My team needs it". He's a driver imo. An iron willed AFL driver. Scrappy early on?...yeah....but it's secondary when the elite drive is there.

He's a "get on my back and come with me" guy. Throw him in with Walsh and a couple others and Crippa will be clunkin it and kicking goals while resting forward sooner rather than later.

Whoever gets Robertson in this draft is lucky imo. I'd take him anyday over a few higher rated ones.

Additional notes: Robertson tested extremely well athletically at the beginning of the year (missed combine due to should I think). He’s quicker than I realised. Definitely knows where the footy is going. I’ve said previously he seemed to have lost all confidence in his kicking to the point even when open would still look to handball. Who knows whether that gets fixed or not? He’s def an AFl player even if he doesn’t due to attributes you’ve outlined.

 

[HBF]

same here but he won’t slide that far I’ll be shocked. I’m leaning towards serong roberston Stephens weightman

I like Robertson as well. Think he could round off our midfield nicely. And we do like our West Aussies.

 

[HARKER]

Isn't it funny how we all see different things sometimes. I agree with Jackson and McAsey on needs basis but gee i rate them. Agree on Serong. Def agree Weightman no way.
But Robertson....I see Rory Sloane, Callan Ward, Joel Selwood levels of "F-Off, that ball is mine, My team needs it". He's a driver imo. An iron willed AFL driver. Scrappy early on?...yeah....but it's secondary when the elite drive is there.
He's a "get on my back and come with me" guy. Throw him in with Walsh and a couple others and Crippa will be clunkin it and kicking goals while resting forward sooner rather than later.

Whoever gets Robertson in this draft is lucky imo. I'd take him anyday over a few higher rated ones.

One can never have enough of those types - The players that simply won't lie down and demand others to follow them.

I didn't have Robertson in the picture for #9, but if he has 'it' we could do a lot worse.
It's very difficult to gauge ones will from a few clips or even broadcast matches, but there don't seem to be as many 'winners' around as there used to be and all things being equal, I'd forfeit a little extra talent for a whole lot of desire.

 

[blue_trinity]

There will always be exceptions to the rule but generally speaking, backmen are more likely to be so, as they didn't make for great forwards.
Flankers will often be so because they didn't make for the best midfielders.
When we get to this pointy end of junior football, being the last year of the NAB Cup, many templates are already set, although the odd Aaron Naughton will front up and even that came about more from desperation, than design.

I'd just like for our club in the most, to view players for what they are and for how far they could progress in the roles they've been accustomed to.....I but there will always be exceptions to the rule.

I would argue that a high percentage of the best mids were flankers in their junior years.

 

[HARKER]

I would argue that a high percentage of the best mids were flankers in their junior years.

Not in their final year though....The pointy end when bodies are developed and attributes highlighted.

 

[blue_trinity]

Fyfe, Dangerfield, Pendlebury, bontempelli, yeo. Just to name a few

 

[blue_trinity]

And yes in their final year

 

[HARKER]

Fyfe, Dangerfield, Pendlebury, bontempelli, yeo. Just to name a few

Bontempelli was regarded as a midfielder.
Dangerfield was regarded as a midfielder.
Pendlebury - Not sure as I was out fo football from 2001 - 2008 - Tall agile midfielder.
Fyfe? - Still thin k he's had a little help to get the body he has.
Yeo? Would have to look it up as I don't recall but as I said - Pick the player based on the favoured positions. Don't try and be too clever.

EDIT 1: Just read up on Pendlebury who's described as a tall, agile midfielder.
None of these guys seemed to have been playing HBF'ers to me.

EDIT 2: Hard to find much on Yeo and know he did play in the back-line at times but -

Elliot Yeo
DOB 1/10/93 Ht 189.4 Wt 76

At the Champs he managed only 14 possessions a game and seemed to have a lot of trouble working out where to run to get the ball. He played on the wing mostly, was not damaging and finished with 0 goals for the Champs from 4 games. He looked like he lacked a lot in strength and intensity and struggled to adjust well to the increase in pressure on the ball. He was well beaten by Murdoch I thought in the SA game and Murdoch ran away from him a couple of times causing me to question Yeo’s pace (I didn’t realise at the time that Murdoch was quite as quick as he is – 2.76 in the 20m). My game reviews of him from the Champs were littered with comments like – turns it over, playing behind and concedes the free, centres to a contest, shows speed but does not hold feet, can’t clear the contest.

 

[mrkyuss]

I just want someone that can kick. No more Paddy Wow athletes who can’t hit a fifteen metre target.

 

[HARKER]

I just want someone that can kick. No more Paddy Wow athletes who can’t hit a fifteen metre target.

Dow had a disappointing 2019.
Having missed the pre-season didn't help and neither did playing forward, as he's not a forward.

More than anyone, I want to see him developed through the midfield as otherwise we may have blown a pick #3.
He's exactly what we need in there and to now be trying to find him a new home, may well be a waste.

 

[windows1]

Dow had a disappointing 2019.
Having missed the pre-season didn't help and neither did playing forward, as he's not a forward.

More than anyone, I want to see him developed through the midfield as otherwise we may have blown a pick #3.
He's exactly what we need in there and to now be trying to find him a new home, may well be a waste.

It’s on him. He’s got to get fit. I think he was pushed forward because he couldn’t run out of sight on a dark night. Not because of his kicking. Walshy would lap him in a 3 lap race of Optus I reckon. His able to run to defend was non existent. Much has been made of his missed preseason. I saw a lot of preseason last year. He was there every time I went. The claims are exaggerated.

Regardless, I hope he’s run his arse off the past couple of months. He doesn’t need to and won’t become Walsh/LOB level. But Jack S has shown how much better you can get at running if you put your head down.

I’m cheering for him. We need his burst away from stoppages.

 

[KohPhi]

There was an article on the AFL page the night before stating we were keen on Henry, the next day there was another article in one of the papers stating the same and then 10cp posts it afterwards and people get excited. Cmon.

Yep.