Pick Swap 2019 - How Crow Can You Go?

Where will Adelaide finish?


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On a much lighter note ... I’ve just stopped at this sign ... last week I accepted a full time permanent teaching position in Victoria!! Yay for being out of Adelaide. I graduated last year and now have a permanent position!! Looking forward to seeing Carlton play more than once a year!
 

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HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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And finishing bottom this year doesn't make it a bad decision.

See, I too can make general statements without considering the trade as a whole.



How many games of senior footy have these guys played collectively?

Using these hypothetical situations with a million different permutations to be critical of the club is just absurd.

We've got Walsh who is sensational, Stocker who we rate highly and who is developing nicely, and we've still got a presence in the first round of the draft if we want it.

The grass isn't always greener on the other side.
I just see this as Carlton cheerleading nonsense. As it stands right now (which I think will change) we could’ve very easily got more highly rated prospects than what we are going to get.
 

jezzajay

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On a much lighter note ... I’ve just stopped at this sign ... last week I accepted a full time permanent teaching position in Victoria!! Yay for being out of Adelaide. I graduated last year and now have a permanent position!! Looking forward to seeing Carlton play more than once a year!
How liberating, congratulations to you!
I left Adelaide 20+ years ago and have never looked back...nice to visit and that's mainly due to family and friends ;)
I'm certainly envious of you being able to see the blues play more often!
 
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I just see this as Carlton cheerleading nonsense. As it stands right now (which I think will change) we could’ve very easily got more highly rated prospects than what we are going to get.
Why?

Because I choose to look at the facts rather than buy into the rubbish coming from the media, who jump up and down without considering the bigger picture?
 
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The reality is, as it stands, is Stocker worth a pick 1 to 15 downgrade this year ? We don't know now nor will we for quite some time. However, if SOS had a crystal ball and knew we would be 1-7 at this stage of the year and Adelaide top 3.. would he have done the trade? I'm learning towards no.
 

thylacine60

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how many times do you need to be advised the pick will more than likely be traded for a mature player? I understand this doesn't suit your negative "heads must roll" narrative - your typo "I'm learning towards no" is an interesting faux pas............ps: it's round 9 only.........
 

BLUEALLTHRU

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On a much lighter note ... I’ve just stopped at this sign ... last week I accepted a full time permanent teaching position in Victoria!! Yay for being out of Adelaide. I graduated last year and now have a permanent position!! Looking forward to seeing Carlton play more than once a year!
Good onya HW:thumbsu: good luck with the job too!!!
 

thylacine60

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On a much lighter note ... I’ve just stopped at this sign ... last week I accepted a full time permanent teaching position in Victoria!! Yay for being out of Adelaide. I graduated last year and now have a permanent position!! Looking forward to seeing Carlton play more than once a year!
run, run for your life! hook turns and penguins!! nobody gets out alive!!.............and welcome
 

jezzajay

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The reality is, as it stands, is Stocker worth a pick 1 to 15 downgrade this year ? We don't know now nor will we for quite some time. However, if SOS had a crystal ball and knew we would be 1-7 at this stage of the year and Adelaide top 3.. would he have done the trade? I'm learning towards no.
Do you honestly think adelaide are a top 3 team? I know the ladder says they are right now but I have no doubt there are at least 3 - 4 teams below them that are better and will be above them soon enough. They sure as hell aren't playing good enough footy to be considered a contender at present - this is why I find the current ladder positions laughable for some teams.
Don't consider this trade with current ladder positions, highly unlikely they will be the same come seasons end.
 

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HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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The reality is, as it stands, is Stocker worth a pick 1 to 15 downgrade this year ? We don't know now nor will we for quite some time. However, if SOS had a crystal ball and knew we would be 1-7 at this stage of the year and Adelaide top 3.. would he have done the trade? I'm learning towards no.
Exactly ‘as it stands’ if SOS knew we had pick 1 last year and this year he would have turned it into a lot more than Walsh, Stocker and pick 16. Read back over old pages and see the value people were putting on our pick one last year compared to this years. It’s laughable considering the pick 1 prospects are supposed to be very similar while there was hardly any drop off last year compared to this years.
I’ll repeat as it stands because I think things will change.
 

Blue_Fusion

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It's an interesting thread this one. Early stages of the season, people were quite happy with how things were tracking as the Crows were showing some really poor form.

Then the trend has changed now that the Crows have climbed the ladder a bit. There is panic among some supporters given the current ladder positions.

I suspect if we can win some of these pesky close ones and the Crows start losing, the feelings will swerve again.

Its essentially the metaphorical emotional roller-coaster...
 
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I’m not sure what you mean by bigger picture. Both sides could argue that they are looking at it from that perspective
Of course they are. As they should be.

I don't particularly care about Adelaide or where they go from here.

The lower they finish the better for us, obviously, but I certainly don't believe we can win or lose this trade on 2019 finishing position alone.

That's just a simplistic way of looking at things which the media do for the shock value. There's no analysis involved there and it's just incredibly lazy.

Bigger picture = looking at the trade in its entirety. This one's going to play out for a little while longer.
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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It's an interesting thread this one. Early stages of the season, people were quite happy with how things were tracking as the Crows were showing some really poor form.

Then the trend has changed now that the Crows have climbed the ladder a bit. There is panic among some supporters given the current ladder positions.

I suspect if we can win some of these pesky close ones and the Crows start losing, the feelings will swerve again.

Its essentially the metaphorical emotional roller-coaster...
If we can get out of the bottom two and even if it means they get 3 and us 18 than it’s a non issue imo
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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Of course they are. As they should be.

I don't particularly care about Adelaide or where they go from here.

The lower they finish the better for us, obviously, but I certainly don't believe we can win or lose this trade on 2019 finishing position alone.

That's just a simplistic way of looking at things which the media do for the shock value. There's no analysis involved there and it's just incredibly lazy.

Bigger picture = looking at the trade in its entirety. This one's going to play out for a little while longer.
Yeh but I don’t see how you are looking at the bigger picture and others aren’t. Everyone knows what the trade is as it’s very simple. Judd said himself they didn’t expect eithrr side to be where they currently are when the trade was done.
 
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Yeh but I don’t see how you are looking at the bigger picture and others aren’t. Everyone knows what the trade is as it’s very simple. Judd said himself they didn’t expect eithrr side to be where they currently are when the trade was done.
If you're willing to make a call on the trade 8 rounds into the season, you're not looking at the bigger picture.

Calling the trade a "disaster" or a "loss" or anything similar at this stage is a joke.
 

jezzajay

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It's an interesting thread this one. Early stages of the season, people were quite happy with how things were tracking as the Crows were showing some really poor form.

Then the trend has changed now that the Crows have climbed the ladder a bit. There is panic among some supporters given the current ladder positions.

I suspect if we can win some of these pesky close ones and the Crows start losing, the feelings will swerve again.

Its essentially the metaphorical emotional roller-coaster...
Thankfully there a couple in the media that can see it for what it is at present. Healy on The Couch the other night said that he doesn’t know why people are harping on it now when it will take a few years for things to play out in regards to who/what the picks turn out to be and what those players produce.
 
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Here’s an interesting way to look at it from a crows perspective.

All I’ve seen is all the crow fans saying we traded 19 and swapped first rounds for next year and doesn’t matter what Stocker does. Whereas all the blues fans say they didn’t trade 19, they traded for Stocker, which is why no one can agree on anything.

Crows were never going to pick Stocker which is why we say he’s irrelevant and it’s just the number that was traded. But no one has ever said (as far as I’m aware) who the crows were going to pick if they didn’t do the trade. That’s who we should thinking about as Crow fans. Were we going to pick RCD, Jez Mclennan? That’s who as a crows fan we need to compare how our selection at this draft goes.

Does that make sense?
 

thylacine60

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Thankfully there a couple in the media that can see it for what it is at present. Healy on The Couch the other night said that he doesn’t know why people are harping on it now when it will take a few years for things to play out in regards to who/what the picks turn out to be and what those players produce.
he's been watching teams/clubs cycle through their **** for 40 years - can see it.............
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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If you're willing to make a call on the trade 8 rounds into the season, you're not looking at the bigger picture.

Calling the trade a "disaster" or a "loss" or anything similar at this stage is a joke.
I’m just discussing it as it currently stands. I do expect that to change though
 

Arr0w

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Here’s an interesting way to look at it from a crows perspective.

All I’ve seen is all the crow fans saying we traded 19 and swapped first rounds for next year and doesn’t matter what Stocker does. Whereas all the blues fans say they didn’t trade 19, they traded for Stocker, which is why no one can agree on anything.

Crows were never going to pick Stocker which is why we say he’s irrelevant and it’s just the number that was traded. But no one has ever said (as far as I’m aware) who the crows were going to pick if they didn’t do the trade. That’s who we should thinking about as Crow fans. Were we going to pick RCD, Jez Mclennan? That’s who as a crows fan we need to compare how our selection at this draft goes.

Does that make sense?
Of course it makes sense. Perhaps you rated Hamill higher than most, so were happy to trade out/back a number of times.

But, if Stocker does turn out to be a star or better than what this year's 1st rounders that both clubs have access too, then your club will always be remembered for giving up Stocker. Of course the reverse could also happen.

Stocker will always be a major component of this trade, as will other players
 

jezzajay

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Here’s an interesting way to look at it from a crows perspective.

Crows were never going to pick Stocker which is why we say he’s irrelevant and it’s just the number that was traded. But no one has ever said (as far as I’m aware) who the crows were going to pick if they didn’t do the trade. That’s who we should thinking about as Crow fans. Were we going to pick RCD, Jez Mclennan? That’s who as a crows fan we need to compare how our selection at this draft goes.

Does that make sense?
Yes, it makes sense. Articulated it well.
 

rocket18

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People can asses the swap of picks at the end of this season - once final position are known. For example we can assess whether pick 3 for picks 19 and 14 was a good/fair/bad deal.

However it will take years to assess each clubs talent ID/player development of the eventual players involved.

For example Port traded Burgoyne to Hawthorn for 2 first rounders (9 & 16), that was a great deal for Port. So at the time they had the "win".

However, they proceeded to select Moore & Pittard - two spuds (Fyfe went at 20) and Burgoyne has gone on to have a great run with the Hawks, so the Hawks are well and truly in front.

So it was Ports talent ID/player development that was horrible - not the trade.

Had Port selected Fyfe and Talia they would have been the ones way in front, yet the trade hasn't changed.
 

Arr0w

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People can asses the swap of picks at the end of this season - once final position are known. For example we can assess whether pick 3 for picks 19 and 14 was a good/fair/bad deal.

However it will take years to assess each clubs talent ID/player development of the eventual players involved.

For example Port traded Burgoyne to Hawthorn for 2 first rounders (9 & 16), that was a great deal for Port. So at the time they had the "win".

However, they proceeded to select Moore & Pittard - two spuds (Fyfe went at 20) and Burgoyne has gone on to have a great run with the Hawks, so the Hawks are well and truly in front.

So it was Ports talent ID/player development that was horrible - not the trade.

Had Port selected Fyfe and Talia they would have been the ones way in front, yet the trade hasn't changed.
I think the trade you used is a great example of where either side loses or both could do well, if of course Port selected one of Talia or Fyfe
 
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